MW2 PC sold 290,000 copies, was pirated over 4 million times Ouch!

So the people who buy the games should suffer because of the pirates? Things like DRM don't even stop piracy in the slightest so why even put it on there? I don't see what the point of pointing out piracy so much is... they still probably made a profit off that port anyway.

If you're so worried about how many sales the publisher/developer misses out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games to stop used game sales.

Mystic-G

"When Reflexive games performed a series of experiments with anti-piracy measures, they found that they only made one extra sale for every 1000 pirated copies they blocked [7]. This implies that their 90% piracy statistic caused them to lose less than 1% of their sales."

from the article I posted..the one that everyone seems to ignore :D

So the people who buy the games should suffer because of the pirates? Things like DRM don't even stop piracy in the slightest so why even put it on there? I don't see what the point of pointing out piracy so much is... they still probably made a profit off that port anyway.

If you're so worried about how many sales the publisher/developer misses out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games to stop used game sales.

Mystic-G

What do you want them to do nothing? You think they are making DRM just to piss people off and get less game sales? They are trying to stop piracy, i dont understand what is so hard to understand about this. They still made a profit off the port anyways so they deserve to have copies stolen? I dont jknow what you do for a living nbut we dont operate like that at my work, we are in business to make money, my boss insnt like hey we made alittle money, do the rest of the job for free for them.

What do you want them to do nothing? You think they are making DRM just to piss people off and get less game sales? They are trying to stop piracy, i dont understand what is so hard to understand about this. They still made a profit off the port anyways so they deserve to have copies stolen? I dont jknow what you do for a living nbut we dont operate like that at my work, we are in business to make money, my boss insnt like hey we made alittle money, do the rest of the job for free for them.

Advid-Gamer

No sir, you don't understand. It's already been proven without a shadow of a doubt that DRM stops NOTHING. Not even Ubisoft's almighty DRM stopped piracy. Point blank, it doesn't work, but it sure hurts legitimate consumers. So, why even use it?

I never said they deserve anything, don't even try to put words in my mouth. I personally know a lot of PC gamers who specifically went from wanting to buy the game to pirating it just because they did what they did. I'm not justifying all pirates either, because there are always those who do it just cause. Like I said, if you're so worried about how many sales they lose out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games. Right?

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

What do you want them to do nothing? You think they are making DRM just to piss people off and get less game sales? They are trying to stop piracy, i dont understand what is so hard to understand about this. They still made a profit off the port anyways so they deserve to have copies stolen? I dont jknow what you do for a living nbut we dont operate like that at my work, we are in business to make money, my boss insnt like hey we made alittle money, do the rest of the job for free for them.

Mystic-G

No sir, you don't understand. It's already been proven without a shadow of a doubt that DRM stops NOTHING. Not even Ubisoft's almighty DRM stopped piracy. Point blank, it doesn't work, but it sure hurts legitimate consumers. So, why even use it?

I never said they deserve anything, don't even try to put words in my mouth. I personally know a lot of PC gamers who specifically went from wanting to buy the game to pirating it just because they did what they did. I'm not justifying all pirates either, because there are always those who do it just cause. Like I said, if you're so worried about how many sales they lose out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games. Right?

I could care less actually, dont think it would affect me any anyways. i buy used games, but they are usually games i owned before or didnt care enough to buy on release day. Every game i really want is a 1st day purchase, some times i buy the used 5 dollar off copy but if it wasnt a option I would just spend 5 more $. Dont act like I am attacking this issue because I am a console fanboy because it is not the case. I just can stand the mentality of some pc gamers, it is ruining it for everyone includong yourself, you hate drm, you know why it is there.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="xDimMaK"]

As I pointed out earlier, the numbers are skewed. Even people who purchased the game end up playing pirated copies to bypass the DRM. With their detection methods there's no way to distinguish between those post-purchase pirates and "actual" pirates. They're all lumped into the same statistic despite post-purchase piracy not harming sales in any way, shape, or form.

xDimMaK

[QUOTE="rollermint"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

Seriously dude? If the games are not fun why play them? Man, you guys are just full of excuses that are trying to make STEALING GAMES seem like it is ok, "the people that pirate games wouldnt have bought them anyways" or "Its activevisions fault they make a crappy game pftt.....were not paying it it sucks, but it was good enough to pirate". Make all the excuses obviously the developers are not buying it and are trying to do something about and that is all that matters, enjoy your DRM

Advid-Gamer

Why are you so adamant to blame all PC gamers wholesale and accusing the PC gamers in this thread as condoning piracy?

I see not one PC gamer who condones it nor claiming that they pirated. All that was offered was why people pirate and more often than not, they clarified they do not support piracy.

But in your eyes, you seem them as guilty regardless..why? because they are PC gamers?

You have some serious issue with PC gamers for some reason.

If they dont condone it, they make excuses for it.

They didn't. They simply offered a reason why people pirated. Amongst which, DRM is actually making things alot worse rather than solving them. Including bad ports. These are the main reasons many PC gamers and even developers have been saying and warning the industry.

You skewed that wholly out of context in your rush to blame each and everything on PC gamers and accusing them all as pirates or a supporter.

If I warn someone "Dude. don't play with fire!" and the dude went ahead and got burnt, are you going to accuse me as an arsonist now?

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]Also...stumbled across this earlier http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/10/one-quarter-of-humble-indie-bundle-downloads-were-pirated/Dataleak

Wow, that's ******** low. Seriously, you can purchase that bundle for whatever price you want, and they still pirate it? -_-

Wow... thats disgusting... PC gamers wonder why they get fewer and fewer exclusives. But if you blame it on piracy, all the hermits freak out and pretend its a small problem.

Seriously.... 4,000,000 is alot of chedda! Activision would get approx. $15 per sale... so 15 x 4,000,000 = $60,000,000.... ouch. Oh well, do bad things and bad things happen to you. I'd feel bad for any other company.

I'm gonna say it right now.... Modern Warfare 3 will be console exclusive.

[QUOTE="Dataleak"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]Also...stumbled across this earlier http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/10/one-quarter-of-humble-indie-bundle-downloads-were-pirated/moistsandwich

Wow, that's ******** low. Seriously, you can purchase that bundle for whatever price you want, and they still pirate it? -_-

Wow... thats disgusting... PC gamers wonder why they get fewer and fewer exclusives. But if you blame it on piracy, all the hermits freak out and pretend its a small problem.

Seriously.... 4,000,000 is alot of chedda! Activision would get approx. $15 per sale... so 15 x 4,000,000 = $60,000,000.... ouch. Oh well, do bad things and bad things happen to you. I'd feel bad for any other company.

I'm gonna say it right now.... Modern Warfare 3 will be console exclusive.

you act as if each pirated copy = one lost sale. Everyone knows that that is not true.

at first i was like -__- , but then i LOL'd. Ok in all seriousness people tend to forget that there is such a thing as digital distribution. despite that i will not deny that that's alot of pirating, but activision brought this upon themselves by not adding dedicated servers. I personally did not buy the game although i have played the console version, and must say that compared to the first it sucks. DRM is good, but if it is used to the point where spyware is installed or treats the legal customer like a criminal then there is a problem.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

What do you want them to do nothing? You think they are making DRM just to piss people off and get less game sales? They are trying to stop piracy, i dont understand what is so hard to understand about this. They still made a profit off the port anyways so they deserve to have copies stolen? I dont jknow what you do for a living nbut we dont operate like that at my work, we are in business to make money, my boss insnt like hey we made alittle money, do the rest of the job for free for them.

Advid-Gamer

No sir, you don't understand. It's already been proven without a shadow of a doubt that DRM stops NOTHING. Not even Ubisoft's almighty DRM stopped piracy. Point blank, it doesn't work, but it sure hurts legitimate consumers. So, why even use it?

I never said they deserve anything, don't even try to put words in my mouth. I personally know a lot of PC gamers who specifically went from wanting to buy the game to pirating it just because they did what they did. I'm not justifying all pirates either, because there are always those who do it just cause. Like I said, if you're so worried about how many sales they lose out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games. Right?

I could care less actually, dont think it would affect me any anyways. i buy used games, but they are usually games i owned before or didnt care enough to buy on release day. Every game i really want is a 1st day purchase, some times i buy the used 5 dollar off copy but if it wasnt a option I would just spend 5 more $. Dont act like I am attacking this issue because I am a console fanboy because it is not the case. I just can stand the mentality of some pc gamers, it is ruining it for everyone includong yourself, you hate drm, you know why it is there.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

So the people who buy the games should suffer because of the pirates? Things like DRM don't even stop piracy in the slightest so why even put it on there? I don't see what the point of pointing out piracy so much is... they still probably made a profit off that port anyway.

If you're so worried about how many sales the publisher/developer misses out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games to stop used game sales.

Advid-Gamer

What do you want them to do nothing? You think they are making DRM just to piss people off and get less game sales? They are trying to stop piracy, i dont understand what is so hard to understand about this. They still made a profit off the port anyways so they deserve to have copies stolen? I dont jknow what you do for a living nbut we dont operate like that at my work, we are in business to make money, my boss insnt like hey we made alittle money, do the rest of the job for free for them.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

No sir, you don't understand. It's already been proven without a shadow of a doubt that DRM stops NOTHING. Not even Ubisoft's almighty DRM stopped piracy. Point blank, it doesn't work, but it sure hurts legitimate consumers. So, why even use it?

I never said they deserve anything, don't even try to put words in my mouth. I personally know a lot of PC gamers who specifically went from wanting to buy the game to pirating it just because they did what they did. I'm not justifying all pirates either, because there are always those who do it just cause. Like I said, if you're so worried about how many sales they lose out on then you should be all for serial keys on console games. Right?

Mystic-G

I could care less actually, dont think it would affect me any anyways. i buy used games, but they are usually games i owned before or didnt care enough to buy on release day. Every game i really want is a 1st day purchase, some times i buy the used 5 dollar off copy but if it wasnt a option I would just spend 5 more $. Dont act like I am attacking this issue because I am a console fanboy because it is not the case. I just can stand the mentality of some pc gamers, it is ruining it for everyone includong yourself, you hate drm, you know why it is there.

What do you mean? Since you have nothing else to argue with now i have no point? If you havent noticed we have been discussing the effects of piracy to to pc games, I have been arguing with people for the last 2 hrs that are trying to justify or downplay piracy, if you cant see my point, why are you arguing with me, or if you dont understand reread the last 5 pages. All people seem to do is cry about drm and blame the developers when it is the pirates fault it is there in the first place. Whatever arguing with pc gamers is like beating your head against the wall, they cant see the forest tru the trees.

Serves activision right, they gimped the **** out of the PC version.Dynafrom

This!!!! Is my point! Thankyou

All systems are susceptible to piracy (though some to a lesser extent) and it just ruins gaming experiences for legitimate consumers.

lundy86_4

Sorry, I can't help but laugh at them.

[QUOTE="Dynafrom"]Serves activision right, they gimped the **** out of the PC version.Advid-Gamer

This!!!! Is my point! Thankyou

The real truth of the matter is that I'm betting that 4.1 million pirates are not all exclusively hermits. A lot of console gamers buy games on their consoles coz its harder to pirate there but guess what? They pirate stuffs on their PC. The gaming world is not that exclusively black and white like how System Wars users try to portray it as.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="rollermint"]

Why are you so adamant to blame all PC gamers wholesale and accusing the PC gamers in this thread as condoning piracy?

I see not one PC gamer who condones it nor claiming that they pirated. All that was offered was why people pirate and more often than not, they clarified they do not support piracy.

But in your eyes, you seem them as guilty regardless..why? because they are PC gamers?

You have some serious issue with PC gamers for some reason.

rollermint

If they dont condone it, they make excuses for it.

They didn't. They simply offered a reason why people pirated. Amongst which, DRM is actually making things alot worse rather than solving them. Including bad ports. These are the main reasons many PC gamers and even developers have been saying and warning the industry.

You skewed that wholly out of context in your rush to blame each and everything on PC gamers and accusing them all as pirates or a supporter.

If I warn someone "Dude. don't play with fire!" and the dude went ahead and got burnt, are you going to accuse me as an arsonist now?

When did I ever say all pc gamers were pirates? I am pc gamer and I am not a pirate, I was only referring to the people that were defending it in this thread, and the actual pirates that did the stealing, if you are neither of those I wasnt talking about you. Dont get it twisted.

No DRM, no matter how draconian, remains uncracked.

Brownesque

PS3 DRM still hasn't been cracked.

The real problem is not DRM but pirates that have an entitlement mentality when it comes to games.

That and pc gamers that provide endless excuses for the pirates who can obviously afford gaming pcs but won't shell out to support developers.

If any of you think that DRM caused the piracy then please explain why DRM-free World of Goo was pirated at 90%:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90.ars

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]All systems are susceptible to piracy (though some to a lesser extent) and it just ruins gaming experiences for legitimate consumers.

dc337

True enough, though I doubt it's impossible, just infeasible at this moment in time.

Sales wouldn't have climbed up by a huge margin even if there was no piracy. shane_orija

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="Dynafrom"]Serves activision right, they gimped the **** out of the PC version.rollermint

This!!!! Is my point! Thankyou

The real truth of the matter is that I'm betting that 4.1 million pirates are not all exclusively hermits. A lot of console gamers buy games on their consoles coz its harder to pirate there but guess what? They pirate stuffs on their PC. The gaming world is not that exclusively black and white like how System Wars users try to portray it as.

I didnt conveniently ignore anything, I didnt even notice, that dosent mean he dosent have a gaming pc, why do all pc gamers take these arguments personally? To you pirate games? If not this is not about you get over it. Why would you go out of your way to argue about something you dont do?

I hope the PC community is ready when publishers stop publishing for the PC. They will only have themselves to blame.

I didnt conveniently ignore anything, I didnt even notice, that dosent mean he dosent have a gaming pc, why do all pc gamers take these arguments personally? To you pirate games? If not this is not about you get over it. Why would you go out of your way to argue about something you dont do?

Advid-Gamer

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]No DRM, no matter how draconian, remains uncracked.

dc337

PS3 DRM still hasn't been cracked.

The real problem is not DRM but pirates that have an entitlement mentality when it comes to games.

That and pc gamers that provide endless excuses for the pirates who can obviously afford gaming pcs but won't shell out to support developers.

If any of you think that DRM caused the piracy then please explain why DRM-free World of Goo was pirated at 90%:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90.ars

[QUOTE="shane_orija"]Sales wouldn't have climbed up by a huge margin even if there was no piracy. dc337

The thing is, people wouldn't have pirates a multiplayer focussed game like MW2 if they had the money for it, if you were talking about single player games like AC and ME, I would've agreed.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]I didnt conveniently ignore anything, I didnt even notice, that dosent mean he dosent have a gaming pc, why do all pc gamers take these arguments personally? To you pirate games? If not this is not about you get over it. Why would you go out of your way to argue about something you dont do?

dc337

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with looking at both sides of a situation. In fact, I would say it's prudent to do so in order to understand the situation better.

However, I agree that the act of piracy should not be defended, as I find it abhorrent in its uses.

[QUOTE="rollermint"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

If they dont condone it, they make excuses for it.

Advid-Gamer

They didn't. They simply offered a reason why people pirated. Amongst which, DRM is actually making things alot worse rather than solving them. Including bad ports. These are the main reasons many PC gamers and even developers have been saying and warning the industry.

You skewed that wholly out of context in your rush to blame each and everything on PC gamers and accusing them all as pirates or a supporter.

If I warn someone "Dude. don't play with fire!" and the dude went ahead and got burnt, are you going to accuse me as an arsonist now?

When did I ever say all pc gamers were pirates? I am pc gamer and I am not a pirate, I was only referring to the people that were defending it in this thread, and the actual pirates that did the stealing, if you are neither of those I wasnt talking about you. Dont get it twisted.

LOl I love pc gamers logic, "the game is not up to our standards so instead of just not playing it, we are going to steal it because since it is stripped down they deserve it." Pc gamers wonder why they are losing support left and right. I love it they are getting what they deserve.

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="shane_orija"]Sales wouldn't have climbed up by a huge margin even if there was no piracy. shane_orija

The thing is, people wouldn't have pirates a multiplayer focussed game like MW2 if they had the money for it, if you were talking about single player games like AC and ME, I would've agreed.

These are people that

1. Have no problem breaking the law

2. Own a gaming pc and have bandwidth connection

Why should assume that not even 15% would have paid $50? Their monthly cable/internet bill is likely over $50.

Why do you take the time to defend pirates?

I didnt conveniently ignore anything, I didnt even notice, that dosent mean he dosent have a gaming pc, why do all pc gamers take these arguments personally? To you pirate games? If not this is not about you get over it. Why would you go out of your way to argue about something you dont do?

Advid-Gamer

Your whole reason being on this thread is attacking PC gamers who in your opinion either pirates or support piracy. Even using the words of one who obviously has both a gaming PC and a PS3.

PC gamers do get very defensive regarding these kinda threads due to the negative but flawed stereotypical view that all and only PC gamers pirate. I think a lot of PC gamers have a right to be on this thread to air our views.

But it seems that anything we say will be immediately construed as supporting piracy.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]No DRM, no matter how draconian, remains uncracked.

dc337

PS3 DRM still hasn't been cracked.

The real problem is not DRM but pirates that have an entitlement mentality when it comes to games.

That and pc gamers that provide endless excuses for the pirates who can obviously afford gaming pcs but won't shell out to support developers.

If any of you think that DRM caused the piracy then please explain why DRM-free World of Goo was pirated at 90%:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90.ars

"With the Humble Indie Bundle promotion we've seen that when we treat gamers as real people instead of criminals, they seem to respond in kind.Anyone can get all five DRM-free games for a single penny, and pirate them as much as they want — we have no way to find out or stop it.However, in just the first two days, we have over 40,000 contributions with an average of $8 each! Would we have seen this much support if the games were console ports that only worked when connected to a secure online DRM server? We'll never know for sure, but somehow I doubt it."

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy

yet even the guy who created that bundle knows its being pirated also but doesnt care since he doesnt see them as potential buyers.... every pirated copy=/=lost sale

**UPDATE

-Total contributed $1,103,278 -Number of contributions 120,958 -Average contribution $9.12

Well, such is piracy. These are only US retail numbers obviously and with developers like Valve, PC gaming is absolutely fine. I agree that the PC piracy problem is huge but DRM increases piracy, so it makes little sense to place such restrictions on consumers. Biggest reason for poor PC game sales is delayed games imo.

Your whole reason being on this thread is attacking PC gamers who in your opinion either pirates or support piracy. Even using the words of one who obviously has both a gaming PC and a PS3.rollermint

PC gamers do get very defensive regarding these kinda threads due to the negative but flawed stereotypical view that all and only PC gamers pirate. I think a lot of PC gamers have a right to be on this thread to air our views.

But it seems that anything we say will be immediately construed as supporting piracy.

rollermint

I can't even imagine what it is like for publishers to deal with pc gamers. They fill game forums with comments about how they plan on pirating games to teach the publisher a lesson. You know what the lesson is? PC gamers are the worst customer group in the video game world. They have the lowest purchase rate and the highest piracy rate and on top of it all they have their own piracy defense squad that storms any forum when god forbid someone might dare point out that having a 90% piracy rate is a problem.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"][QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

I could care less actually, dont think it would affect me any anyways. i buy used games, but they are usually games i owned before or didnt care enough to buy on release day. Every game i really want is a 1st day purchase, some times i buy the used 5 dollar off copy but if it wasnt a option I would just spend 5 more $. Dont act like I am attacking this issue because I am a console fanboy because it is not the case. I just can stand the mentality of some pc gamers, it is ruining it for everyone includong yourself, you hate drm, you know why it is there.

Advid-Gamer

What do you mean? Since you have nothing else to argue with now i have no point? If you havent noticed we have been discussing the effects of piracy to to pc games, I have been arguing with people for the last 2 hrs that are trying to justify or downplay piracy, if you cant see my point, why are you arguing with me, or if you dont understand reread the last 5 pages. All people seem to do is cry about drm and blame the developers when it is the pirates fault it is there in the first place. Whatever arguing with pc gamers is like beating your head against the wall, they cant see the forest tru the trees.

All the 'Oh Infinity Ward screwed us over' is a really piss weak excuse for pirating the game, because all that's doing is giving more incentive and enforcing Infinity Ward's attitudes to the PC. If you don't like the game, don't buy it because playing a pirated version is both hypocritical and illogical.

That said, admittedly Infinity Ward did have it coming to them though.

Well, almost 1million 360 verions were pirated. That's still bad in itself.

Dataleak

MW2 selling 290kat retail is pretty good considering its a game that requires steam making it almost pointless to buy the retail version. Retail pc game sales mean nothing when theirs such a large percentage of pc gamers who buy exclusively through steam and other dd sites.

i think we all did what we thought was the best thing to do. We're all saints in our own eyes, right now. Not in retrospect but right now, we all are.

People complain about DRM, this is why it exist.

Instashot

[QUOTE="rollermint"]Your whole reason being on this thread is attacking PC gamers who in your opinion either pirates or support piracy. Even using the words of one who obviously has both a gaming PC and a PS3.

dc337

Questioning my motivation eh? A rather sad defensive tactic.

hmmm what you are talking about?

since I wasn't talking to you nor included you in my discussion with Advid-Gamer?

[QUOTE="Instashot"]

People complain about DRM, this is why it exist.

SilentlyMad

Not that I am justifying piracy but... serves Activision right.

foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"]While Activision should have considered the backlash with the PC community, that is a pretty pitiful ratio.Dataleak

It is shameful, but it's pretty obvious that half of those pirated were due to spite Activision and IW due to lack of dedicated servers. What's even more shameful is that 970,000 Xbox 360 users pirated it for no apparent reason other then being selfish ****s.

So the boycott was a success? Good on them.

I would actually be glad if there was a miracle cure to prevent piracy. It would ensure better sales and that would ensure that PC receives more and better attention when it comes to games. I'm just opposed to hurting the legit consumer. That's like soldiers shooting into a crowd mixed with friendlies and hostiles.