Official Ninja Gaiden 2 Discussion Thread - KEEP IT ALL HERE! or face Suspension

[QUOTE="therealmcc0y"]

7.5/10

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/NewsCom-149561.aspx?CT=1

Another flop

ma7moud93

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

it was hyped AAA long before any of that.

Truth_Hurts_U

Why don't you do hype threads any more? Was there ever one for NG2?

Don't you remember? SystemWars got together and voted to get rid of hype threads forever.

You know that song, Opposites Attract? How it goes, "I take two steps forward, I take two steps back?"

Some game sequels are like that. Some move forward, some fall behind--and some, like this one game I am playing today, does a little of each. It's sort of exhilarating and sort of maddening.

kevin-v

That GS is likely mixed on this, which will be reflected in the review.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

it was hyped AAA long before any of that.

agentfred

Why don't you do hype threads any more? Was there ever one for NG2?

Don't you remember? SystemWars got together and voted to get rid of hype threads forever.

no it didn't. :?

Don't you remember? SystemWars got together and voted to get rid of hype threads forever.

agentfred

Must have been when I was really into getting my PVP gear for WOW.

Don't know how the vote even passed they were pretty popular.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

it was hyped AAA long before any of that.

CaseyWegner

Why don't you do hype threads any more? Was there ever one for NG2?

people abused the system.

At first I thought people were taking real consideration into their score predictions, when their word was on public display. Turns out they would play safe on the "official record" but then turn around in any other thread, and would be puffing their chest with all the usual "GameX will be AAA guarunteed, and will pwn GameY into the ground!!!!!!". Sometimes they would still rally behind the game as AAAA and GOTY... but in the "official" thread place a bet as AA. No accountability whatsoever.

I don't really expect this to score AAA here, but who knows. Stranger things have happened.

Btw, wasn't the problem with the hype threads that anyone could vote? Lemmings could overhype PS3 exclusives or hyped games, same the other way around. So it wasn't really an honest representation of the actual hype?

[QUOTE="ma7moud93"][QUOTE="therealmcc0y"]

7.5/10

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/NewsCom-149561.aspx?CT=1

Another flop

Dreams-Visions

You are having too much fun with this Dreams

Since NG came out on the Xbox, it as been the measuring stick for all other action games in terms of strictly gameplay. However, games need to be measured in terms of story, ect as well. And sequels are expected to add upon what the first installment started, which leads me to believe that a score like 8.7 is more beffiting for a game like NG these days.

Because despite how fantastic the gameplay is, there are other contributing factors that need to be weighed in addition to the gameplay in order to determine if a game deserves to be rated over a 9.0 or not. Especially with it being a sequel that will be measured against the standard setting masterpiece that was the first one.

However, beings that gameplay is obviously going to be the most important factor, more of the same with NG II is hardly a thing to complain about in my book. Therefore, it would not surprise me if it easily ended up still getting a 9.0 here. But, beings that this is a sequel, bringing more of the same of what has already been offered, I think an 8.5 would probably be more appropriate in terms of an overall grading.

As awesome as the game is going to be gameplay wise, it sounds as if it has made no real noteworthy advancements over what the first one did. And in all fairness, you cannot ignore that based on name recognition alone for a sequel. Aside from all that though, I am looking forward to picking it up and enjoying more of the bad ass NG gameplay we all love in an all new adventure, myself.

people abused the system.

CaseyWegner

:(

I know what you mean. But it was still fun when it came to scoring day. :)

Maybe 1 day they will come back.

***Crosses fingers***

[QUOTE="therealmcc0y"]

7.5/10

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/NewsCom-149561.aspx?CT=1

Another flop

ma7moud93

Though an Xbox website scoring it like that is pretty harsh :|

no it didn't. :?

CaseyWegner

Fine, not explicitly, but in effect that vote removed the hype/flop system that we had been using, and the hype threads that went with it.

[QUOTE="sdu_1111"]

yea relax dude. for now its 81% average. I'm sure GS is not as stupid as to award AAA to NG2 and label it an editor's choice.

This is the GS i feel of now. Review it late.

If everyone gives it AAA, we'll do so, it'll be safe. (it'll be dumb to give it lower when so many sites has justified the AAA)

If everyone gives it a flop, we'll do so too! Won't it look stupid if we're slapping editor's choice on a game everyone think is of only AA quality at most?

CaseyWegner

they review it to their standards...not anybody else's. if they feel it's a AAA game, they'll score it accordingly.

And so far we've seen two AAAs, two AAs, and two As. So it's anybody's guess what it will score here. But two things are certain;

If it scores AA or less here, the xbox haters will celebrate a flop.

If it scores AAA here, the xbox haters will protest Gamespot's anti-PS3 bias, and gather around "Team Ninja paid em off" conspiracies.

The reason NG2 is scoring around the 8 mark is because it's not doing anything new and some of the old problems remain, such as frustrating spikes in difficulty, camera angles being messed up. I'm a little bummed this isn't the next big thing in action games, but will still be there day one as it's still 100% Ninja Gaiden and is still awesome for fans of the last game.

Wow, scores are a bit lower than I expected

Still buying it regardless

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="sdu_1111"]

yea relax dude. for now its 81% average. I'm sure GS is not as stupid as to award AAA to NG2 and label it an editor's choice.

This is the GS i feel of now. Review it late.

If everyone gives it AAA, we'll do so, it'll be safe. (it'll be dumb to give it lower when so many sites has justified the AAA)

If everyone gives it a flop, we'll do so too! Won't it look stupid if we're slapping editor's choice on a game everyone think is of only AA quality at most?

AdobeArtist

they review it to their standards...not anybody else's. if they feel it's a AAA game, they'll score it accordingly.

And so far we've seen two AAAs, two AAs, and two As. So it's anybody's guess what it will score here. But two things are certain;

If it scores AA or less here, the xbox haters will celebrate a flop.

If it scores AAA here, the xbox haters will protest Gamespot's anti-PS3 bias, and gather around "Team Ninja paid em off" conspiracies.

:lol: thats so true.

there isn't much lemmings in this 360 game thread sdu_1111

It's Memorial Day...

Most people are outside having BBQ's and watching parades.

[QUOTE="sdu_1111"]there isn't much lemmings in this 360 game thread Truth_Hurts_U

It's Memorial Day...

Most people are outside having BBQ's and watching parades.

Memorial Day? ¬.¬

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

Memorial Day? ¬.¬

thrones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day

The reason NG2 is scoring around the 8 mark is because it's not doing anything new and some of the old problems remain, such as frustrating spikes in difficulty, camera angles being messed up. I'm a little bummed this isn't the next big thing in action games, but will still be there day one as it's still 100% Ninja Gaiden and is still awesome for fans of the last game.

Nick_D7

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

Kratos_OMEGA

I agree. In fact, difficulty spikes are welcome for me. I prefer my action games to have peaks and valleys of difficulty. Some areas you can just ease back and ace, while others have you tearing your hair out. Never knowing what to expect in your first play through makes the game all the more worthwhile in my book. Not something that I would dock points for, personally.

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

Kratos_OMEGA

Ninja Gaiden is known for it's instantaneous-hair-loss-developing-nervous-twitch-commited-for-therapy punishing difficulty. It's the game that set the bar for which all other games are measured in difficulty. Where most games have 3 difficulty settings, this one could benefit from FIVE grades :lol:

hmmm, was that a pun intended too (the highlighted part) ;)

And love your avatar/sig. I found a kindred spirit here :) Or is that mortal adversary? ;) :P

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

Kratos_OMEGA

They must have short memories as Ninja Gaiden on Xbox had certain parts that were REALLY frustrating and poorly designed, some of the bow and arrow sections spring to mind, some of the jumping on platforms ect. Ninja Gaiden also had the bad camera and some uninspiring level design. But they over looked it because the core game was so awesome and felt fresh at the time. Now Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't feel as fresh as it sticks to the same formula as the last game, so it can't possibly score as high. But it still plays just as good as the previous game. It got a 9/10 for gameplay from IGN, that's great. NG fans will have a blast with it, I want to see the gametrailers review as I usually agree with them. But the low scores have not put me off getting this game, I saw a video of a boss fight today, and it looked amazing, I can't wait to play this.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

no it didn't. :?

agentfred

Fine, not explicitly, but in effect that vote removed the hype/flop system that we had been using, and the hype threads that went with it.

no it didn't.

IF NGB OR NGS wiil review today they get 8-85 max

cuz this is 4-5 yers old game and NG2 is not diffrent, this game is like NGB and NGS but cuz he dont do somting new he will get lower score, but stiil 87 is a great score

[QUOTE="agentfred"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

no it didn't. :?

CaseyWegner

Fine, not explicitly, but in effect that vote removed the hype/flop system that we had been using, and the hype threads that went with it.

no it didn't.

Alright, this isn't going anywhere.:P

I'll concede you're right, because you probably remember better than I do.

[QUOTE="Kratos_OMEGA"]

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

AdobeArtist

Ninja Gaiden is known for it's instantaneous-hair-loss-developing-nervous-twitch-commited-for-therapy punishing difficulty. It's the game that set the bar for which all other games are measured in difficulty. Where most games have 3 difficulty settings, this one could benefit from FIVE grades :lol:

hmmm, was that a pun intended too (the highlighted part) ;)

And love your avatar/sig. I found a kindred spirit here :) Or is that mortal adversary? ;) :P

Yeah i know that but what i'm saying is that the reviews have been sayign there's more cheap difficulty than the first game...the first game had that bit with the archers..i'm still gonna see how it's like, i dont' think it's going to be much of a problem.And yeah TDK is gonna own.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

people abused the system.

Truth_Hurts_U

:(

I know what you mean. But it was still fun when it came to scoring day. :)

Maybe 1 day they will come back.

***Crosses fingers***

God forbid. The only thing hype threads do is encourage fanboyism.

And so far we've seen two AAAs, two AAs, and two As. So it's anybody's guess what it will score here. But two things are certain;

If it scores AA or less here, the xbox haters will celebrate a flop.

If it scores AAA here, the xbox haters will protest Gamespot's anti-PS3 bias, and gather around "Team Ninja paid em off" conspiracies.

AdobeArtist

There has been no more miserable group this generation than the 360-haters, a group that oddly enough does not contain Nintendo fans, nor the majority of PC gamers, nor even the average PS2 / PS3 gamer.

-

I would not expect NG2 to be reviewed so highly here when reviewers seem so internally conflicted about the changes in the game - if the game were two steps forward and no steps back - maybe - but two forward, two back? I dunno...

I just went and read through a few more of the contradictory reviews and came to the conclusion that the difficulty (gee how surprising) is what seems to be the main factor in the low end scores, whereas IGN seemed to somewhat praise the difficulty as being one of the high marks of the game.

In conclusion, reviewers scoring this game in the 7's are just pissed because it kicked there asses, and they were on a deadline to get it done and reviewed on time. Which only added to any disdain that they may have had for the game. Whereas in contrast to reviews like Eurogamer and Gamesradar, IGN seemed to be more reasonable in terms of at least remembering that this is a sequel to NG....which was arguably one of the most frustrating games ever made.

So, docking points because it was not watered down difficulty wise for the casual crowd is laughable in my book. That tells me that it is just going to have all the more hardcore appeal, regardless of the scores. Hell, now I want the game even more.

[QUOTE="Kratos_OMEGA"]

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

AdobeArtist

Ninja Gaiden is known for it's instantaneous-hair-loss-developing-nervous-twitch-commited-for-therapy punishing difficulty. It's the game that set the bar for which all other games are measured in difficulty. Where most games have 3 difficulty settings, this one could benefit from FIVE grades :lol:

hmmm, was that a pun intended too (the highlighted part) ;)

And love your avatar/sig. I found a kindred spirit here :) Or is that mortal adversary? ;) :P

My name is Dreams-Visions. And I approve of these 2 posts.

Ok to the PS3 fanboys. First your latest exclusive (Haze)could not even score a "A" score and NG2 is looking to score AAE at least. You know AAE the thing that PS3 is last in and the 360 is in the lead in of the 3 consoles. Heck also last in AAAE since you have none. Maybe have a chance at MGS4 but kinda took ya long enough since all systems have a few already.Eltroz

Because games have to be AAAE to be worth a buy or play even. You proabably shouldnt buy NG2 if it only gets AA because every on here already knows that 360 gamers can only play AAA games, and ps3 gamers can only play AA games.

There has been no more miserable group this generation than the 360-haters, a group that oddly enough does not contain Nintendo fans, nor the majority of PC gamers, nor even the average PS2 / PS3 gamer.

subrosian

If not those fan groups (and I would say the majority of 360-haters are the PS3 fanboys) then WHO in your estimate comprises that lot?

I just went and read through a few more of the contradictory reviews and came to the conclusion that the difficulty (gee how surprising) is what seems to be the main factor in the low end scores, whereas IGN seemed to somewhat praise the difficulty as being one of the high marks of the game.

In conclusion, reviewers scoring this game in the 7's are just pissed because it kicked there asses, and they were on a deadline to get it done and reviewed on time. Which only added to any disdain that they may have had for the game. Whereas in contrast to reviews like Eurogamer and Gamesradar, IGN seemed to be more reasonable in terms of at least remembering that this is a sequel to NG....which was arguably one of the most frustrating games ever made.

So, docking points because it was not watered down difficulty wise for the casual crowd is laughable in my book. That tells me that it is just going to have all the more hardcore appeal, regardless of the scores. Hell, now I want the game even more.

ironcreed

Why would they punish it NOW and not also for NG, NGB and NGS?

I just went and read through a few more of the contradictory reviews and came to the conclusion that the difficulty (gee how surprising) is what seems to be the main factor in the low end scores, whereas IGN seemed to somewhat praise the difficulty as being one of the high marks of the game.

In conclusion, reviewers scoring this game in the 7's are just pissed because it kicked there asses, and they were on a deadline to get it done and reviewed on time. Which only added to any disdain that they may have had for the game. Whereas in contrast to reviews like Eurogamer and Gamesradar, IGN seemed to be more reasonable in terms of at least remembering that this is a sequel to NG....which was arguably one of the most frustrating games ever made.

So, docking points because it was not watered down difficulty wise for the casual crowd is laughable in my book. That tells me that it is just going to have all the more hardcore appeal, regardless of the scores. Hell, now I want the game even more.

ironcreed

There's a huge difference between being challenging and being punishing. Even the original NG struggled with this in a few areas - even IGN's praise was mixed, as have been many reviews thus far. If the difficulty curve waivers all over the place rather than steadily increasing, or there are sections that are simply difficult because they are unfair, then yes, there may genuinely be a problem.

[QUOTE="Kratos_OMEGA"]

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

ironcreed

I agree. In fact, difficulty spikes are welcome for me. I prefer my action games to have peaks and valleys of difficulty. Some areas you can just ease back and ace, while others have you tearing your hair out. Never knowing what to expect in your first play through makes the game all the more worthwhile in my book. Not something that I would dock points for, personally.

Seems to me like the health regen should make things quite a bit easier overall. Think of how many times in past NG games you had to waste a precious elixir because you were at 25% or so health and didn't want to risk a death. In this one, you'd regenerate a good chunk of that back, it seems.

Not only that, but save points in NG2 now refill your health and I think even your ninpo completely. So they definitely did some things to make it more accessible.

To counteract that, I think they upped the enemy count a good bit, which is perfectly fine by me. All of these seem like great additions. They reduce the frustration and keep you in the action more, though I can see the save point health refill being abused a little too easily.

[QUOTE="ironcreed"][QUOTE="Kratos_OMEGA"]

Ok i've read 3 reviews so far and everyone of them says it has unbalanced difficulty. I think that's what is dragging the score down. Not the bad story. I'm still getting it and everyone who liked the first game should. This game still looks bloody awesome...i've been waiting for it for 4 years.

Zeliard9

I agree. In fact, difficulty spikes are welcome for me. I prefer my action games to have peaks and valleys of difficulty. Some areas you can just ease back and ace, while others have you tearing your hair out. Never knowing what to expect in your first play through makes the game all the more worthwhile in my book. Not something that I would dock points for, personally.

Seems to me like the health regen should make things quite a bit easier overall. Think of how many times in past NG games you had to waste a precious elixir because you were at 25% or so health and didn't want to risk a death. In this one, you'd regenerate a good chunk of that back, it seems.

Not only that, but save points in NG2 now refill your health and I think even your ninpo completely. So they definitely did some things to make it more accessible.

To counteract that, I think they upped the enemy count a good bit, which is perfectly fine by me. All of these seem like great additions. They reduce the frustration and keep you in the action more, though I can see the save point health refill being abused a little too easily.

All these advatages that they added seems like it would only be a benifit to the gameplay (on paper). In practice however, I'm not so sure until I play the game myself. Cheap difficulty seems like a warranted claim seeing that your health does regenerate, and save points heal you.

We're given these aides and there are still complaints :?. Something doesn't add up.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

I would not expect NG2 to be reviewed so highly here when reviewers seem so internally conflicted about the changes in the game - if the game were two steps forward and no steps back - maybe - but two forward, two back? I dunno...

AdobeArtist

If not those fan groups (and I would say the majority of 360-haters are the PS3 fanboys) then WHO in your estimate comprises that lot?

The majority of 360 haters are PS3 fanboys - I meant that the majority of PS2 / PS3 owners are not PS3 fanboys or 360-haters, however - this has been the largest source of the 360-haters, and they just strike me as the most unfortunate fan group this generation - in terms of dissapointments, they've faced such a large number.

The composition of the haters?

70% PS3 fanboys, 15% PC diehards, 10% Nintendo Fanatics, 5% Jack Thompson.

-

Quite honestly, I haven't gotten what the fuss is about with NG2 - it's a game for fans of NG, not the only game on the platform, or even the summer gaming highlight. Quite frankly, I'm still working on GTA IV :P

But one encounter, where you fight two bosses in a row with no intermediate save point, perfectly sums up the overall problem. Upon defeating the second boss (one of the game's cheapest, with lots of phases where you're expected to dodge bombardments of projectiles covering most of the play area), you get the final animation - sinking your scythe into its unprotected skull. For most of the game, this means the battle is over. In this specific battle, however, the boss explodes, and if you don't have enough health to survive it, or can't turn and block in time (which didn't seem to block all the damage anyway), you die and have to do the entire battle again.Eurogamer Review

Okay WTF. That doesn't sound fun at all. NG can already be frustrating enough. No need in adding insult to the expected injury, IMO.

[QUOTE="ironcreed"]

I just went and read through a few more of the contradictory reviews and came to the conclusion that the difficulty (gee how surprising) is what seems to be the main factor in the low end scores, whereas IGN seemed to somewhat praise the difficulty as being one of the high marks of the game.

In conclusion, reviewers scoring this game in the 7's are just pissed because it kicked there asses, and they were on a deadline to get it done and reviewed on time. Which only added to any disdain that they may have had for the game. Whereas in contrast to reviews like Eurogamer and Gamesradar, IGN seemed to be more reasonable in terms of at least remembering that this is a sequel to NG....which was arguably one of the most frustrating games ever made.

So, docking points because it was not watered down difficulty wise for the casual crowd is laughable in my book. That tells me that it is just going to have all the more hardcore appeal, regardless of the scores. Hell, now I want the game even more.

subrosian

There's a huge difference between being challenging and being punishing. Even the original NG struggled with this in a few areas - even IGN's praise was mixed, as have been many reviews thus far. If the difficulty curve waivers all over the place rather than steadily increasing, or there are sections that are simply difficult because they are unfair, then yes, there may genuinely be a problem.

This could potentially be an issue, and it was detailed in Eurogamer's review. I think the inclusion of a New Game + helps offset that a bit. You can restart the game with all your items and weapons from your previous game, which not only does wonders for replay value, but should help make any difficulty spikes flow a little more smoothly (and also since you'd be naturally better the second time through). I can't stress how glad I am they put that feature in.

The only thing that caught my eye was regarding this boss you face that blows up and can kill after you beat him, but there has to be some sort of a sign that he'll do so and that you should probably get out of the way. If there isn't, then I'd agree that's really cheap.

[QUOTE="Eurogamer Review"]But one encounter, where you fight two bosses in a row with no intermediate save point, perfectly sums up the overall problem. Upon defeating the second boss (one of the game's cheapest, with lots of phases where you're expected to dodge bombardments of projectiles covering most of the play area), you get the final animation - sinking your scythe into its unprotected skull. For most of the game, this means the battle is over. In this specific battle, however, the boss explodes, and if you don't have enough health to survive it, or can't turn and block in time (which didn't seem to block all the damage anyway), you die and have to do the entire battle again.Dreams-Visions

Okay WTF. That doesn't sound fun at all. NG can already be frustrating enough. No need in adding insult to the expected injury, IMO.

Yeah, that guy. Oh well, at least we all know about him now. :P

[QUOTE="ironcreed"]

I just went and read through a few more of the contradictory reviews and came to the conclusion that the difficulty (gee how surprising) is what seems to be the main factor in the low end scores, whereas IGN seemed to somewhat praise the difficulty as being one of the high marks of the game.

In conclusion, reviewers scoring this game in the 7's are just pissed because it kicked there asses, and they were on a deadline to get it done and reviewed on time. Which only added to any disdain that they may have had for the game. Whereas in contrast to reviews like Eurogamer and Gamesradar, IGN seemed to be more reasonable in terms of at least remembering that this is a sequel to NG....which was arguably one of the most frustrating games ever made.

So, docking points because it was not watered down difficulty wise for the casual crowd is laughable in my book. That tells me that it is just going to have all the more hardcore appeal, regardless of the scores. Hell, now I want the game even more.

Dreams-Visions

Why would they punish it NOW and not also for NG, NGB and NGS?

Obviously for reasons that were cited in addition to the difficulty, such as lack-luster graphics, bad camera angle, ect. However, the main reason, in my opinion, is that it is a sequel that failed to improve upon the standard that the first one set in regards to the overall production. And in addition to the fact that it was obviously going to be measured against what the first one did, the fact that it did not make any noteworthy improvements on the 360 versus the first one on the Xbox is to be considered as well.

However, based on how some reviewers referred to it as going from frustrating to "impossible", I cannot help but surmise that the difficulty coupled together with a review deadline added to some frustration that was ultimately reflected in the reviews.