So is the only argument left against PC "I don't like it"?

@GarGx1: Yeah, the "Oh you have to install drivers, configure it, etc etc" belongs in the same pile as the "Well, you have to move jumpers, assign IRQs when you build a machine". lol @ 1990s arguments.

And consoles have gotten less "plug and play" with their own weird issues. It's all pretty much met in the middle now

I'm all for cheap PCs, but you can't add a video card to that build. Lmao. The motherboard doesn't even have a PCI-E Slot, nor is there enough room in the case.

I think it does have a PCI-e slot on the mobo, but it only has like a 240w PSU and yeah the GPU would have to be low profile because of the case size. So at best it would be something like a low profile 1050ti

If it does, it's probably only a 4x slot, so you wouldn't even be getting full speed if you managed to get it in that tiny case.

EDIT: Okay, I found the tech specs. It does have an x16 slot, but yeah, not many cards that would fit. You couldn't fit even a 1050 in there without cutting the case open on the side. You would need a low profile card, which I think is only the 1030 series? I'd have to look that up.

EDIT 2: Wow, there is a low profile 1050. Interesting. Lol Definitely not a 1060, though. Then you'd have to wonder, would a 240W run a 1050 ti along with the processor? I think it would be close. Yeah, looks like everything would draw about 205W. Would be incredibly close and may be prone to crashing. This is with a 6400T proc at 2.2 GHz 4 cores, RAM, HDD and 1050 Ti video card.

exactly. it's like arguing over prime, netflix, and hulu when most of the content is the same anyway lol it's amazing how stupid adults can act when on the internet

Putting everything inside a mid ranged case isn't exactly challenging, just get something for $20 and put everything in it, the price would still be in the $500 range.

Still, you'd have to buy a power supply if you wanted anything more than a 1050 Ti. And on top of that, you'd have a motherboard that probably isn't all that compatible with windows 10. Dell motherboards are pretty shit, tbh. I work with them at my job.

@DragonfireXZ95: The build has a Quad Core i5 2400 clocked at 3.1Ghz and already has windows 7 installed, so whatever motherboard it has, it WILL run Windows 10 and it WILL be compatible with modern GPUs. a GTX 1060 can run very well on a 400W power supply and those aren't expensive, you can get good ones brand new for $50.

So PC $180 + GTX 1060/RX 570 $250 + Case $20 and PSU $50 = $500

You can also cut the price down by going for older GPUs with similar performance, namely the GTX 980 and R9-390, both can be found for $200 or less. Either way you cannot go wrong with this build.

Heh, you have a lot to learn about Dell computers if you think all of their motherboards are compatible with Windows 10. Most have upgraded okay, but some just blue screen like crazy and updating the bios firmware and drivers do not fix it.

But, if you can get around that hurdle, then yeah, a 500 dollar PC with some subpar parts. I guess that works.

It's a feasible build for someone with a tight budget and really wants a PC capable of 4k/30fps but I would never recommend it.

@DragonfireXZ95: OK several things you are getting wrong here:

First: Windows 7 and Windows 10 have the exact same kernel, literally any system that can run windows 7 can run windows 10 (in fact anybody with windows 7 at the time of release could have gotten windows 10 for free), the difference being that windows 10 requires a stronger hardware component, but its not by much and given the fact that this PC has an i5-2400 CPU it means it has sandybdrige components, meaning it can EASILY run windows 10, its not even gonna be an issue.

Second: A motherboard is not a key requirement for running windows 10, The key requirements and their strength are as follows

• CPU: 1GHz or faster processor or SoC
• RAM: 2GB for both 32-bit and 64-bit
• Hard disk space: 16GB for 32-bit OS or 20GB for 64-bit OS
• Graphics card: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver
• Display: 800 x 600 resolution

Whatever problems you had with your Dell computers must have had something to do with any of these key requirements, maybe you had too low RAM? CPU wasn't powerful enough? the issues you had could have been linked with either of these 5 components, but a motherboard isn't one of them. If your PCs hardware had any components that were at the same level or weaker than what was listed then you would definitely have problems installing windows 10 and updating the BIOS will not help in that situation. and again, the PC has sandybdrige components, the specs of the PC are far FAR above the system requirements of windows 10, again, there won't be any issues, windows 10 will work just fine.

its like pc gamers have to have everyone jump on board lol..its ok to NOT LIKE SOMETHING just for the sake of "NOT LIKING SOMETHING"...No matter what you try and come up with,consoles are still and always have been and always will be easier to play games on. PC you have to still worry about everything being compatible and set up properly. Guess what...umm..some people dont want that hassle..Still EVERY PC has its issues. Wont boot a game,crashes for whatever file is "missing or corrupt"..I dont care about STEAM. its not like it makes your pc less of a hassle..CONSOLES sure they update but on their own...EVERY game is designed to play on that console at its best performance..I dont care if you come back with "even a monkey can do it"..that still does NOT make it perfect,easy,OR the better gaming platform..good day "tips hat"

I don't like it.

I think its a lifestyle thing as well. I'm a casual gamer nowadays and only play maybe 2-3 games a year, but I need a high end computer regardless for work so I would need to drop at least 900-1200 dollars to get what I want anyway. Adding a graphics card and a few other gaming centric things really doesn't add much to that. Plus I enjoy the kind of games that tend to thrive on the PC more like Fallout and RTS/strategy games. So I don't really see the point in an Xbox/PS4 anymore although we have a PS4 that kinda serves as a dedicated Netflix machine etc. lol

You don't know how to SW.

@VanDammFan:

>Consoles

>Best performance

Pick one.

@Juub1990:

Yet pc gamers are all using console controllers--what happens when there is r&d around a product. All theses modern games are console games. In ways they may play better because of frame rates on the pc, but the level design of most modern fps games for example is designed around the controller axis, not the mouse and keyboard. People may prefer the mouse/keyboard, but the game itself is designed for the control pad. Very few for games take advantage of the mouse/keyboards nature. Games like Unreal--you don't see that anymore, much. Playing fps with mouse and keyboard on these rail fps games makes them more like point and click games because the movement space is designed around a different control system--the game pad.

@heirren: I must have missed something because I don't own a controller. Hell, it's easier for me to play the Arkham games with a mouse and keyboard.

@Jebus213:

Never tried the arkam games outside a bit of the first or second one on PS3. My point is that the games are designed to be played WITH a controller. Most games don't take advantage of the faster movement of the mouse vs controller dual axis design. Easier doesn't make the mouse/keyboard better, in ways it can make the game experience worse because the games are designed to be played with a controller by ways of level design. For example could you imagine how easy Uncharted would be? There'd be zero challenge. It would be point and click because of how the game is structured. The days of quake and unreal are gone, unfortunately

they are more plug and play then PCs, everything is integrated in 1 service, and you don't manage anything other than signing up for that 1 service...

Isn't this thread based on preference? If you have a preference for controller.. than consoles is a better choice by that value...

Some console gamer who knows absolutely nothing about pc building reads stuff like this^^^, and says "Nah, I'll just spend that $500 on a console instead."

This seems to always be lost on pc guys.

The harsh truth and the real answer is... I can't afford a good PC for gaming.

Remember these are the same people that cried over a $600 console. They are not lining up anytime soon for a 144Hz 27" ROG or and a GTX 1070 or better.

They buy $300-400 POS consoles and then come here and bash PC gaming to make them selves feel better about their purchase. Its why they always skew results when comparing against PC by saying BUILD ME A PC FOR SAME PRICE AS A CONSOLE.

Its pathetic really. YOU can't afford it, suck it up and play your 24FPS game.

A classic demonstration showing how narrow minded console gamers are, they LOOK for reasons to NOT get a PC, its not that its too hard for them, they just actively look for an excuse not to and thn shame PC gamers for their sorry excuses.

Kind of like you are doing,

"seems to be lost on PC guys" was a away for you to excuse your laziness and demonize PC gamers for not respecting a negative trait. You COULD have simply said "we are just clueless and lazy" but the fact that you added "Lost on PC guys" clearly shows that you don't want agency for your negative character trait and wanted to pass the blame on to PC gamers, because you wanted to feel good about yourself.

Yeah, I'm not saying it wouldn't work for sure. It's just that there could be some problems. The problems could very well be a non-issue, and most likely won't happen. I'm just saying in the event the worst happens. Lol

I'm sure this would actually work just fine for most people that tried it. I'm just a cynical bastard sometimes.

And, actually, you may be right about the old Dell motherboards. It could also be chalked up to possible hard drive issues.

Stop buying crap PC's if you move over to PC gaming. Absolutely worthless. Don't buy a 500 dollar PC because some other box is 500 dollars. Just complete and utter dumb.

The only thing you will end up getting is a crappy PC that will run games poorly.

You invest once in a PC and can keep going with that PC for 2 console generations with minor upgrades along the way.

You save money with PC on no internet fee's and metric ton of free games. Hell even all the blizzard games can be completely free if you buy into world of warcraft and farm gold in that game for example.

Origins / gog they all give you free games like PSN would, but you actually own them at this point. Emulation gives you all access to all the important games and more. Loads and loads of indie's or classics like warcraft 3 mods, that are still supported and playable today. Endless backwards compatibility.

People that say, well it doesn't have the sony first party exclusives, will realize how "old gen" those games really are when they move into a proper pc gaming solution and join games like black desert online or world of warcraft, or even league of legends.

For example, i paid zero money on tree of savior, spended 3000 hours on it, i currently sit at 2000 hours in black desert online and spended a whooping 9 bucks on it to get access towards it, league of legends, pugb are all juggernauts of games that willl soak you in and keep you there.

Once you move into that segment you will understand how utterly lackbusting and limited console gaming really is. Not to forget once you get 2/3 monitors and multitask you will feel bored with just playing a game on a console in 10 second.

A good example is, i read forums and discord chats on 1 monitor, while watching a movie on another and playing a mmo on another one. ( i got a 4th screen that runs a live stream from twitch 24/7 ).

Going back to a console with just 1 screen, playing a single player / multiplayer game with only a controller would just bore me to death.

However people also need to stop acting like PC's are not going to give them issue's over time. Windows is a real pain in the arse with microsoft at the helm. For older games on newer windows you need to actively hunt down ways to fix issue's. New games on steam or steam games in general won't really give you much problems. but installing drivers etc is still a think on pc ( specially with amd ) and if you buy into budget hardware you will be more fine tuning settings down the line and will have to upgrade far more quicker which can become a obstacle for a lot of people.

Console gaming is and will always be, a easier way with limited access towards content on a limited playwise solution. If you can deal with this and just want to not bother with anything else. you are better off with console gaming, then having to mess around with a PC. as a PC is still totally not a plug to play concept. But offers a far richer experience in general at the end of it.

If you would buy a PC i would advice.

any 8+ core cpu solution, 32 gb of memory, a 8 gb v-ram video card from nvidia ( don't bother with amd gpu's if you like stable drivers ), with a good psu solution a 144hz screen and 2 cheap screens for other content.

This can seem for some people that have no experience with PC hardware, overkill currently. but will be needed to get any stable performance down the line.

Once you got a pc like this, you can easily upgrade in a year or 5 down the line when new consoles hit the market a new gpu and be done for 10 years by just pressing install and play. and that's what you want to aim for.

Not some junk box that has crap hardware in it, where you constantly have to tune settings to see if you can get on any decent level of solid framerate out of it. Beyond terrible plan. With in a year or two having issue's with running games at all.

If you have a local used computer parts shop that you can trust, its fine. 980ti's go for like 200 used now and as long as it was not used for mining or ultra heavy gaming, you should get your moneys worth. I got a bit lucky with mine because im friends with a shop owner and he sold me his for significantly under 200.

That's cute, but you just proved my point. I'm not "demonizing" PC gamers at all. I just pointed out that some people may not be interested in all that debating about which parts to use, or which one's will work. Some people would rather plug in a console and play games.

The fact that you call that being "clueless and lazy" speaks volumes about you. Some people work far too many hours, and simply don't have much time to game. For people like that, a console is an attractive buy.

According to you, they're just lazy.

Where are all these lazy console gamers who are demonizing you poor pc players? This whole thread is predicated on just the opposite of that. I think your impression vs reality is a bit off dude.

Thanks again for proving to me you are lazy and again projecting on to other people and refusing to accept agency for your own flaws. Had you used your head for even a second longer you would have asked yourself "could I get someone else to do it?" because that would have solved your "thinking about which components" issue, but like I said, laziness, you didn't want to put a TINY bit of effort in just simply THINKING about it, nope, just jumped straight to conclusions, "console is easy, PC is too hard, PC community is just too arrogant, hur dur"

Why even post in the first place? lets be honest here, you already made up your mind about PC gaming and decided to remain clueless about it, which is fine, after all everyone is entitled to their opinion (no matter how pathetic it is), but please blame yourself, and not the PC community. Fact is for every "issue" you have with PC gaming, there is a work around and they are very VERY easy to circumvent, so please spare me, nobody, absolutely NOBODY on the planet works so much that they can't spare an hour to type "$xxx gaming PC", looking at the results, writing down the parts, heading to their local computer store and tell the guys there to build you the system and the next day you pick up, plug it, and enjoy yourself. Absolutely NOBODY, sorry but you are just making up excuses, now is it "harder" than simply getting a console? well yeah sure, but your "issues" with PC gaming is akin to someone complaining about getting a regular tooth brush over an electronic one because doing horizontal strokes to brush your teeth is "harder" than letting the device do it for you and that it just takes "too much time" and then you follow it with "why don't normal tooth brush people just get it? you are so arrogant and hur dur", that is just STUPID CRAP that nobody with a rational thought will buy, you are just super SUPER lazy. Now I know you are feeling defensive after reading this, and you know what? thats a GOOD thing, you SHOULD be be embarrassed to be lazy, BUT you don't get to shoot at others for it, you just accept the fact and move on, attacking me back is just simply deflecting the issue, and once you deflect, you will forget, and once you forget you will keep repeating the same mistake over and over again.

Here I will even help you out and give your a statement that is both fair and objective

"Thinking about which components to pick seems like too much work and I'm too lazy, so I'd rather spend $500 on the console"

There done, no added comments about "PC guys not getting it" or "PC gamers are too arrogant" or any pathetic attempt at deflection, accept yourself for who you are and if it makes you feel bad, BLAME YOURSELF.

@Gatygun:

I fully agree with what you said, the $500 build I posted was just to simply put the ludicrous claim of "Not being able to build a 4k PC for the same price" to rest. My point was is that it CAN be done. Would I personally recommend it? no, hell no, you would ultimately suffer the same issues as consoles, with the advancement of new titles comes reduced fps, increased stuttering and increased compromises because the hardware just won't keep up, lems and cows like to gloat about their current systems but fail to realize that it will run into the exact same problems previous consoles had, and that is the increase in poor performance, thats why as PC gamer I highly recommend to build something at the $1000 budget for the ultimate experience, nothing more and nothing less. It is a much more sensible and wiser investment, which bloody makes sense anyway! better hardware with an infinite amount of features simply costs more than a low tier hardware box with limited features! However with that said:

any 8+ core cpu solution, 32 gb of memory, a 8 gb v-ram video card from nvidia ( don't bother with amd gpu's if you like stable drivers ), with a good psu solution a 144hz screen and 2 cheap screens for other content.

This can seem for some people that have no experience with PC hardware, overkill currently. but will be needed to get any stable performance down the line.

Once you got a pc like this, you can easily upgrade in a year or 5 down the line when new consoles hit the market a new gpu and be done for 10 years by just pressing install and play. and that's what you want to aim for.

Not some junk box that has crap hardware in it, where you constantly have to tune settings to see if you can get on any decent level of solid framerate out of it. Beyond terrible plan. With in a year or two having issue's with running games at all.

This is terrible advise. You don't need 8 core CPUs, powerful 4 core CPUs like intel i5s are more than enough for gaming, AMD GPUs perform very as well, you can't go wrong with Red team or Green team, it all comes down to price and deals, and you most certainly don't need 32GB of RAM, thats just STUPID waste of money, 16GB is more than enough, heck even 8GB will get you good gaming experience. Also tuning the settings is often times a better choice than simply buying a ridiculously expensive hardware just so that an unoptimized feature runs better, thats just unwise and terrible advise.

Yea I consider a few hours out of your year to build a PC or rather, just google a damn site that does it for you.. "lazy".

but yea, that imaginary 99% of console gamers that have so busy lives (right...) to set up a device that is BARELY anymore difficult to use.

This is 2017... not early 2000s. it really is a terrible excuse.

This reminds me of a joke I heard the other day...

Esports coach is prepping his team, day before the finals.

'Okay lads, you're as good as I can make you,' the coach says. 'But just to make sure you're as sharp as can be tomorrow, I have to ask you not to have sex tonight. Can you do that, lads?'

After a long silence, one of the team members answers, 'Coach, we're PC gamers. What are the odds of us ever having sex?'

Lol!

Well, I thought it was funny.

^ +1

@MBirdy88: @Dark_sageX: Neither of you guys get it.

How dense you must be, that you can't understand that other people just don't care to build a pc. Some people only buy and play a few games a year. There are plenty of people who's gaming consists of hopping into a game of COD, or GTA for a couple of hours a night. Maybe it's FIFA. For a casual gamer like that, a console might make more sense for them.

That point seems to be lost on you two though. You guys just can't understand why someone wouldn't just build a pc. It's beyond you, it's over your head.

Building a pc isn't particularly hard, but it does take a certain level of involvement, and research that some people would just rather buy a console. That's fine. If that's what works for them, then so be it. Why do you guys insist that people not be "lazy" and get a pc? What vested interest do you have in what other people play on? Why does it matter so much to you two? Why can't you just accept the fact that some people just prefer the simplicity of a console?

Either way, you two have proved my original point beyond any doubt. Thanks for playing.

How dense can you be not to realise that your completely obvious point is exactly the issue here, what you think this is some revelation? I would say the same about anybody that purchases/has a hobby in anything that if simple research is not included at least at somepoint in the MANY YEARS they partake in something, then that is either lazy, or simply as you say, happy to remain ignorant.

Given that people on here spend all day arguing and doing research to argue their corner, we simply have to laugh at the fact that 3-4 hours and clicking "purchase" then either getting someone to put it together, or you watch a 10 minute youtube "how to video" to get it up and running is somehow too much effort.

But hey f*ck it, I see "professionals" that barely know how to use a PC in daily working lives "Because they didn't study I.T it doesn't matter" ... as yes, those Healthcare professionals that don't think its worth the few hours to actually learn one of their essential tools IS LAZY, ignorant and dangerous. Same applies to cars etc.

I get it, the older you get the more acceptable it is just to stop caring "as long as it works" ... amazing culture.

-EDIT-

Except when a PS4 has an error, you can't do jack s*it to fix it, you are at their mercy for 3-4 weeks. Outside of the year warranty? oh that £80 to fix a device that "just works".

You "It just works" Apple Mac? f*ck it, we will replace the whole thing and charge you for the pleasure.

Throw Away "if it doesn't work, scrap it, don't read up on how to fix it" culture is not something to brag about.

I'm going to have to stop you right there.

This was about you being too lazy to look up parts, no where have you mentioned that you are a casual gamer (not that its even remotely a good argument against PC gaming, I mean LOL you think PC gamers play 24 hours a day? give me a god damn break, this is EXACTLY what I meant when I said you actively look for excuses against PC instead of being open minded).

That point seems to be lost on you two though. You guys just can't understand why someone wouldn't just build a pc. It's beyond you, it's over your head.

Building a pc isn't particularly hard, but it does take a certain level of involvement, and research that some people would just rather buy a console. That's fine. If that's what works for them, then so be it. Why do you guys insist that people not be "lazy" and get a pc? What vested interest do you have in what other people play on? Why does it matter so much to you two? Why can't you just accept the fact that some people just prefer the simplicity of a console?

Either way, you two have proved my original point beyond any doubt. Thanks for playing.

I don't care what platform you play on and I'm not insisting that you not be lazy, I'm just telling you to admit you are, and do so without barking at the PC community, and that you should also understand that laziness is a fault, its not an excuse you should EVER use against any subject in any debate or argument. Not against PC, not against sport, not against work, not against ANYTHING. The latter was more a friendly advise, but hey you can ignore me and remain clueless and lazy if you so wish, but don't say stupid things in forums and not expect to get ripped to shreds.

Good one lol, my turn:

Why did the console gamer cross the road? so that the building on the other side gets rendered :)

Can I get a plus?

I think the main one is still cost to be honest. You buy a console, and it will play all the games of that gen with no modifications and that's that. People who aren't that bothered like the simplicity.

My main reason for being a PC gamer is the functionality and it plays my kind of games better, but I don't scoff at the people who prefer the simplicity of consoles.

@Dark_sageX: Yeah, never understood supposed "enthusiasts" who can spend so much time arguing on gamespot, but building a PC is too much time and hassle.

You had me agreeing with you until this part, just because one plays on PC it doesn't mean they're compensating for something lacking in real life.

To me PC gamers, well the ones who consider themselves as some part of a "master race" come across as people who think they are better than everyone else.

@metalboi: Do "normal people" exist in system wars?

Wanting to play with friends, who happen to use one particular console is a perfectly valid reason for choosing a console.

But I seldom hear that reason given. Instead, it's blatant misinformation about controllers not working, drivers constantly needing to be updated, and other complete BS.

Joe normal isn't on system wars. He's off playing whatever on his console of choice, and would never consider coming to a gaming forum, especially SW, to argue why his console of choice is superior.

If you care enough to come to SW and argue your preference in the first place, that makes you an enthusiast in my mind. So the "oh it's too much hassle to get a pc built" excuse just rings hollow.

@Dark_sageX: I like how you continue to call me lazy, when I merely made a generalized statement. You can go ahead and move that goalpost though, as I've most certainly spent more money, more time, and most important to you... More work on gaming than you have. It's a bit laughable really, that you're the one who's too lazy to actually flip the coin over and look at the other side of it.

Like I state before. There is a certain level of involvement that goes along with building your own rig, that doesn't exist on consoles. Some people would just rather not bother with that. It's not being lazy, it's not being misinformed, it's not making excuses... It's being content, and having a preference. Nothing wrong with that.

Agree with the first part. Most normal people (i.e. laymen, or "casuals") simply do not give a damn about the things we discuss here on SW. As gaming enthusiasts, we do care about these things. But most people who aren't gaming enthusiasts simply do not care. They just play with whatever they find fun or convenient, or whatever their social circles are playing.

Can't say I agree or disagree with the second part... but the whole "master race" label is really fucked-up to begin with.

@Jag85: You know, until you said that, I never really thought too much about the whole "master race" label. I think I'll stop using it.

Reminds me of when people in business say "he/she is drinking the kool-aid" having no clue what it refers to. Or when people mimic an Aussie accent and say things about Dingos eating babies.

@metalboi: Out of interest what are you into that isn't on PC? There's not an awful lot these days apart from a handful of Sony first party exclusive and EA produced American sports games.

I never use that term, I'm a PC gamer and don't want to be connected to anything that can misconstrued, especially the true use of the "master race".

Don't get me wrong I've thrown out the odd "master race" gif for fits and giggles but that's about it. I'm not better than a gamer who prefers consoles, just more invested.

@metalboi: That's fair enough, you enjoy what you enjoy. It's all good.

Personally I play all kinds of games but mostly I'm a strategy and RPG fan, so I'm good for a while with Total War Warhammer 2 and Divinity Original Sin 2. I'll play other up coming games as well like Shadow of War (really can't complain when I got it for £23) and likely Assassin's Creed Origins (AC is my guilty pleasure :) ). When you've been a gamer for over 40 years you tend to diversify a little to keep things interesting.

I keep a high end PC because I like building them and having high tech kit that allows me not to compromise, it has nothing to do with the next big AAA game. I doubt there are many enthusiast PC gamers who build a new rig for the likes of Destiny, Overwatch etc. with the exception of Overwatch most AAA games are aimed squarely at the mass market console gamers not the high end PC gamers. Really for the niche a lot of us fit into, we're looking at getting a system killer every 10 years or so, the last was Crysis the next is Star Citizen.

Great performance and graphics just come with the territory of being an enthusiast.