So is the only argument left against PC "I don't like it"?

And I said those parts are easy to find and anyone can do it and it is not as uncommon as you think. and no I can fit a $30 case just fine, €400 is plenty of money to get everything you need for a PC built.

The reason why PC's have a different value proposition is both of those choices will incur a costly debt later or you'll have to buy more crap.Your comparison is stupid, your comping reduced costs parts to retail *brand new*. The fact that its brand new at $500 means every other avenue of buying it will be cheaper once its released, open box/refurbished/used will all be ways you can buy an xbox one x and be just as circumstantial as well since those don't have tons of availability,

A brand new weak system is no different than an old system that is equally weak. Sorry but your arguments have absolutely no bearing on reality, fact to the matter is, that PC is just as capable as an Xbox and it is at the same cost, every "bu-bu-but" excuses you invent from the void holds no weight and doesn't change the fact, so accept it already.

Just because you can get something down to the same price doesn't mean its the same value..

uummm yes it does, they cost the same, they literally hold the same value.....

and thats what people mean when they say you can't build a $500 that compares to xbox one x.

No, they meant you can't build a PC that is as capable as an Xbox ONE X for the same price.

You just can't without making compromises or finding parts dirt cheap.

Yes I can, you don't get to dictate rules here.

Which I'll point out xbox one x will inventively have cheaper ways of buying so now you'll have to make more compromises in power where xonex you won't.

First of all, That is utterly irrelevant when you are one of those people who spend the initial $500, and second "lol compromise in power" The Xbox ONE X isn't even a powerful machine, why else do you think I looked up old parts? they cost around the same as the components of the Xbox ONE X, modern PC parts that are currently on retails are far stronger than the Xbox ONE X is made of (and logically as a result cost more, although lately there have been some small factors such as bitcoin mining but thats only temporary so its also an irrelevant point)

Your video and your argument is a good example of how stupid PC gamers can be trying to make a comparative cost argument. You'll compare the cost of shit parts on ebay to someone walking into bestbuy and buying a console at full price....

Your pointless back talk is an example of console peasants having a hard time accepting reality. And a brand new piece of turd sold on a Best Buy is no different than a turd from 2010, you fail to realize that consoles are far FAR behind in tech.

I live in american and the prices here are higher

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-790-Desktop-Computer-PC-Intel-i5-Quad-3-1GHz-8GB-1TB-Win7-WiFi-/182762003814?hash=item2a8d76dd66:g:mqkAAOSwfa9Zus0j

add a GTX 1060 or an RX 570, done, its even under $500.

@Dark_sageX:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-790-Desktop-Computer-PC-Intel-i5-Quad-3-1GHz-8GB-1TB-Win7-WiFi-/182762003814?hash=item2a8d76dd66:g:mqkAAOSwfa9Zus0j

add a GTX 1060 or an RX 570, done, its even under $500. Seller refurbished, poor choice!

You guys forget that MS are selling the xbone X at a loss, so you can bet your asses that they are going to get the money back by price gouging the games themselves and from the paid online. Console gamers somehow forget that all the time.

I believe price and availability has already been posted in the previous video.

They cost nothing because you don't need them link. What part of that are you failing to understand?

@Dark_sageX said:

And I said those parts are easy to find and anyone can do it and it is not as uncommon as you think. and no I can fit a $30 case just fine, €400 is plenty of money to get everything you need for a PC built.

Those parts are easy to find so long as a limited number of people use that option. What don't you get about this. Its a shit option thats why they are easy to find and those shit parts are so cheap. These aren't "standard" pricing and do not have mass availability. If you understand supply and demand... the cost of the parts we are looking at would be driven up if everyone took this option. So yes its a limited circumstantial option for *some* people based on the market considering them having shit value.

A brand new weak system is no different than an old system that is equally weak. Sorry but your arguments have absolutely no bearing on reality, fact to the matter is, that PC is just as capable as an Xbox and it is at the same cost, every "bu-bu-but" excuses you invent from the void holds no weight and doesn't change the fact, so accept it already.

I never said the compromises your build is making causes it to be weak. What is it with this forum and reading comprehension? I said if you wanted to stack up a refurbished/used xbox one x when they become available you'll have to start making more compromises most like a cheaper GPU. And the GPU inside the xbonex is already better than the 1060 based on benchmarks...

uummm yes it does, they cost the same, they literally hold the same value.....

Actually no, ever wonder why they are two different words? Because they don't mean the same thing. I keep mentioning compromises you don't have to make with a new console. Your overpaying for that PC compared to everyone saying xbox one is great value for $500. You even said it yourself you wouldn't recommend buying that pc... Even you don't believe it holds $500 value.

Literally the only value in buying those parts is to force meeting a price point.

No, they meant you can't build a PC that is as capable as an Xbox ONE X for the same price.

Yeah with the assumption your building a new pc with new parts because you'll be buying a new console and comparing NEW products with warranties.

Your video and your argument is a good example of how stupid PC gamers can be trying to make a comparative cost argument. You'll compare the cost of shit parts on ebay to someone walking into bestbuy and buying a console at full price....

Your pointless back talk is an example of console peasants having a hard time accepting reality. And a brand new piece of turd sold on a Best Buy is no different than a turd from 2010, you fail to realize that consoles are far FAR behind in tech.

I'm a PC gamer... I'm just not a stupid one.

I'm not defending xbox, I'm pointing out the stupidity in your build to match price points for a retail product. They do not have the same value but they have the same price...

You just can't without making compromises or finding parts dirt cheap.

Yes I can, you don't get to dictate rules here.

Rules?, I pointed out compromises you have to make, you don't get warranties, you incur debt for parts you'll have to completely replace later.

These are compromises your making. You don't get a console form factor (part of xboxs value), your buying older parts that could die sooner, no warranty, higher upgrade costs because you'll likely have to replace everything but the gpu when you want an upgrade.

And I said those parts are easy to find and anyone can do it and it is not as uncommon as you think. and no I can fit a $30 case just fine, €400 is plenty of money to get everything you need for a PC built.

Yes one your overpaying for. Where the xbox is still a good deal.

First of all, That is utterly irrelevant when you are one of those people who spend the initial $500, and second "lol compromise in power" The Xbox ONE X isn't even a powerful machine, why else do you think I looked up old parts? they cost around the same as the components of the Xbox ONE X, modern PC parts that are currently on retails are far stronger than the Xbox ONE X is made of (and logically as a result cost more, although lately there have been some small factors such as bitcoin mining but thats only temporary so its also an irrelevant point)

Its not irrelevant, we are talking about buying a new product at retail price...

once you consider that consoles can also be bought used/refurbished/sales. If you want to start comparing the lowest possible cost you'll have to wait and see what we get once xbox one is out for a bit.

And your comparing it to used parts with a weaker GPU.

@waahahah:

PC parts reduce in price in time as well, so you have no point there. It would take a while for an Xbox ONE X to reduce in price, you think the next day after its launch when you re-sell an Xbox ONE X it will be suddenly worth $400? it takes time for tech to depreciate in value, evene when they are used, and consequently, PC parts reduce in price as well, so the $500 value still holds. To demonstrate this lets take the original PS4, it can be found used for €200, and low and behold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz5WqX6gCQo

A PC that is just as capable as a PS4 for around the same price. They cost the same, ergo same value, so could you please drop it.

I must however admit that the only point you got me on was warranty though, so admittedly that is one advantage a brand new console has over a used PC. However, that is completely and utterly irrelevant! the original question was: if I'm able to build a PC with the same price and performance as an Xbox ONE X, and again, I proved that its possible, and again, I proved that its very well within anyone's reach and that it can be done, and I believe I also said, EASILY. But like I said I wouldn't recommend it, because consoles are WEAK, the Xbox ONE X is a WEAK system, and I would never tell anyone to model their PC after it, for the best experience you SHOULD invest more, $1000 is pretty much the optimum level, a build of that value can eclipse any console for 2 generations and thanks to PC gaming being cheaper you get to experience the absolute BEST of gaming for an overall lower price, BUT, if you don't mind a 30fps and no AA shit fest then go ahead and build a weak ass PC, its not my place to judge, thats the beauty of it after all, you have a CHOICE, but to say that its not possible or even difficult, I will call you out.

And the GPU inside the xbonex is already better than the 1060 based on benchmarks...

Don't tell me you believe Ron's fantasies...

We aren't talking about reduced priced parts, we are talking about used vs used... if we want to consider price reduction in retail well.. they both happen, as PC prices come down so too will xbox and it will always be a moving target for PC to match.

A PC that is just as capable as a PS4 for around the same price. They cost the same, ergo same value, so could you please drop it.

We aren't talking about ps4... way to move the bar since your argument is shit.

I must however admit that the only point you got me on was warranty though, so admittedly that is one advantage a brand new console has over a used PC. However, that is completely and utterly irrelevant! the original question was: if I'm able to build a PC with the same price and performance as an Xbox ONE X, and again, I proved that its possible, and again, I proved that its very well within anyone's reach and that it can be done, and I believe I also said, EASILY. But like I said I wouldn't recommend it, because consoles are WEAK, the Xbox ONE X is a WEAK system, and I would never tell anyone to model their PC after it, for the best experience you SHOULD invest more, $1000 is pretty much the optimum level, a build of that value can eclipse any console for 2 generations and thanks to PC gaming being cheaper you get to experience the absolute BEST of gaming for an overall lower price, BUT, if you don't mind a 30fps and no AA shit fest then go ahead and build a weak ass PC, its not my place to judge, thats the beauty of it after all, you have a CHOICE, but to say that its not possible or even difficult, I will call you out.

No warranty and failure rates will likely go up. Silicon doesn't last forever.

The original question is framed in "normal" situations that everyone can achieve easily buying a new PC vs xbox. You can't buy a PC with the same specs for $500... they are talking about being able to walk into a store and buy a product new for those specs, because the xbox is new with those specs at that MSRP. Are your too stupid to understand this?

Your build as far as I'm concerned isn't the same value , but the same price, and it has additional costs specific to PC gaming when it comes time to upgrade. Everyone agrees that PC's strength comes with high initial costs but being able to upgrade with significant performance increases and reuse parts.

And the GPU inside the xbonex is already better than the 1060 based on benchmarks...

Don't tell me you believe Ron's fantasies...

Its already been proven basically where the bottleneck is most likely going to be a cpu issue. Thats what people are speculating is how much of a bottleneck. A lot of games still don't scale with cpu cores so there are still issues with this optimization.

@waahahah: You completely missed the point of bringing up the original PS4, and honestly explaining that to you is too much of a headache at this point, so instead I will address one final point (because you just talk too much rubbish):

The original question is framed in "normal" situations that everyone can achieve easily buying a new PC vs xbox

The original question was build a PC that is as capable as an Xbox ONE for the same price, and I did, nobody said ANYTHING about getting things first hand at a retailer, YOU are the one who is formulating it that way, and quite frankly I fail to see why (well besides for the petty sake of "winning" an argument) so I will say this for the last fucking time: the other user claimed that it was not possible to biuld a 4k PC for $500, I proved him wrong (and consequently I proved you wrong as well), deal with it.

I didn't miss the point, its moving the bar, and still don't get the difference between cost/value. For instance buying a xbox one x is a great deal compared to buying a PC because you can't get a PC for $500. Buying a bunch of used parts to bring the price down to be comparable while is "doable" the PC has intrinsically less value because of sacrifices being made to force the comparison. Its not as good a deal at the same price...

You still don't get it, when someone references the MSRP of a new item there is a context there that says your buying a new product... your example is a bad comparison because it goes out of the realm of availability/consistency IE once we go down that route the comparison against $500 is a wash because if someone gets a xbox for $400 on sale somewhere... its a massive moving target of who can find a ridiculous deal to beat the other person. You don't seem to get that. Your example is circumstantial for the masses.

I think one weakness that PC gaming has is that Japan's attitude towards it hasn't changed since 2013. Unfortunately, people on Steam have convinced themselves otherwise, but that doesn't change the fact that you still have to buy games you don't necessarily like just to get more Japanese PC releases. (i.e: Want another Tales or Tekken game on Steam? Better wake the **** up and buy Ace Combat 7)

With some developers, you also have console gamers demanding the failure of their PC games, so that hurts the chances of those games releasing on PC even more!

I bought a pc (built it myself to save some cash).

gtx1050ti 180€

g4560 90€

hdd 1tb 55€

psu (You dont need to be a pro to go for a good psu. cheap or included in box psu are risky) I went for 520w seasonic for 75€ (but for this build you can go 380w corsair for 50€ (I went 520w seasonic for future so I can upgrade if I want to).

motherboard ddr4 compatible 80€

ddr4 8gb ram ddr4 2400mhz gskill 70€

blu ray drive 87€ (optional but I went for it since I got a huge dvd and blu ray collection)

case and fans 45€

windows 10 135€ from microsoft directly (optional also. kingwin sells for 25 but without official support also some keys are generated so you will pay sometimes for a "fake" or simply "generated key". I rather go the right way and buy from microsoft.

keyboard and mouse combo 50€ (no gamer will use the super cheap 22€ keyboard mouse for competitive game. some will spend quite a lot more than 50)

So for a 1050ti 8gb ram g4560 pc with 1tb hdd and blu ray with official win10 home and keyboard mouse (for a complete pc with all you need) I spent 800€

If you cut the windows 10 price and the blu ray drive its still 600€ for this pc (and xbox one x brings a 4k drive to boot).

So a reason why Im buying an xbox one x?

It delivers a lot of power and also a 4k drive for 500€ price tag.

you cant get a pc for 500 that rivals xbox one x.

Can you elaborate on this? because i disagree, the fact that they have released those games on PC proves that the Japanese market is opening up to PC gaming. The Japanese have been bombarding the PC with a bunch of their JRPGs, in fact there is a LOT of JRPGs available on PC right now, more than what is available on the PS4 actually.

They don't make a loss or profit on Xbox One X.

Steam has way more Japanese games today than it did back in 2013.

@toonarmy20: duuude you went full retard, never go full retard....

@djoffer: He’s clearly trolling.

True, but it's likely that the devs are only bringing their games to Steam begrudgingly. The fact that Gundam Versus isn't on PC shows that Japanese developers are still way too easy to disappoint when it comes to their PC releases (FYI, Gundam VS is made by the same people that made Tekken, Ace Combat, Tales and God Eater).

Also, you might think i'm paranoid, but having seen my fair share of disappointments with the Japanese PC scene between NIS' Cladun X2 release back in 2012 and now, I can't help but think that Atlus' first PC game is going to be some terrible game (and possibly a bad port, too) that will decide if Steam ever gets a Persona game. Except with our current mentality with the Japanese PC scene, we won't know that it is until it's too late.

@flashn00b: nioh just got confirmed for pc, soon the only games that won't be on pc is switch games( hence why pc+switch is the. Eat combo) and a few Sony first party(aka walking simulators...)!

I know you're trolling (really hoping you're a terrible troll and not an idiot) but answer me this, why on earth would I want to match any console when I have a PC that is already vastly more powerful?

You did watch the video posted earlier, didn't you? After all you did respond to it and only a fool would comment on something he hasn't watched first. It's as good as the Xbox One X for less than $500, so that's at least one person right there. Why the heck anyone would waste their money building a $499 PC for gaming is beyond me but that's a different conversation.

By the way you really should try counting before making yourself look silly. Steam users with more powerful PC's than the hugs and kisses console are approximately 15% of the survey participants, which means there are already in the region of 30 million PC's more powerful than it using Steam. I'll leave this here for you to do the maths yourself.

@djoffer: Tekken, Tales, God Eater and Gundam games will follow if PC gamers allow the demand for Ace Combat 7's PC version to go unchecked. You still have to buy games that you might not necessarily like just to ask for more Japanese PC releases, and the lack of Gundam Versus on Steam shows that we've failed to do just that

As for Nioh, the system requirements look pretty sketch and it doesn't help that Warriors All Stars didn't have split-screen. While I am curious if DW9's design philosophy is worth the lack thereof, I don't think their games should take priority over the likes of Bandai Namco Studios and Nippon Ichi Software

But every PC gamer who feels like it can be playing on a superior hardware if they want to right? That's what you also meant to say right? Yeah I'm sure you did.

Also I simply love the fact that you have to qualify the console as a value product XD, like something that has to be picked up in the bargain bin at CostCo because it can't compete at retail with anything else hahaha. It's just adorable.

@GarGx1: The fool also doesn't seem to understand that demanding to match a budget build 1:1 with an Xbox ONE X would ALSO mean stripping down the PCs feature to match the Xbox ONE X (remove the OS, remove modularity, remove backwards compatibility and basically everything that makes a PC a PC and reduce it to a mere console. which is a) not possible and b) a very VERY stupid thing to even suggest. He is too caught up in his delusion of "victory" to realize that, and is unfortunately too stupid to pull himself out of it.

It's always fun watching trolls dig a hole they can't get out of, it just ends in them making themselves look even dumber than when they started. :)

To be honest I was waiting for the "you're triggered/butthurt" etc. type comments along with direct insults and name calling. That usually comes when they have absolutely nothing left in the tank.

@Juub1990: Yawn. This is System Wars Brosef. Better go on a political debate forum if all you preach is "you're entitled to your opinion". I mean you're right but where is the fun in that?"

Where in the forum rules does it say posters must provide you with fun? Lol

The issue is that PC gaming is very niche in Japan, yet big outside of Japan. Games targeting overseas audiences often get a PC release, whereas games targeting a domestic audience often don't get a PC release. If a game is too niche in the West (such as Gundam VS), then Japanese developers might not see much point in working on a PC port.

Atlus said they might consider a PC release of Persona 5, although it's not a certainty. Also, Nioh is getting a PC release, as mentioned above. And Nier Automata already got a PC release.

What else do you come to system wars but entertainment?

@Juub1990: Yes for MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT. Not to do anything for you.

@cainetao11: Figures. Selfish posters these days.

@Jag85: PC has gotten much bigger in Japan the past years and it's still growing tho

@Juub1990: How are PC gamers still not getting this? Consoles are simple. You turn them on. Download updates. Play.

Yes, you can use a controller on PC, but you have to install drivers, configure settings, hope the controller you chose supports all the games you play (which it won't, meaning you'll have to do more work to get it going).

Yes, you can plug it into a TV, but not everybody's office/computer room is anywhere near their gaming space, nor do most people have the extra cash to purchase two computers.

There's minimal finicking with consoles. Yes, sometimes games release poorly optimized for your console of choice, but it's nothing in comparison to hundreds of tweaks you can/have to play with on a PC game.

For the love of God, how is this still a hard concept for so many PC gamers to understand? (and I *am* a PC gamer, so seriously, hush yourself)

*Consoles. Are. Fucking. Simple.*

You go to a store. You buy a box. You plug in your crap. And you play.

Once again, daft PC-elitist, and everybody who understands, say it with my in harmony:

*Consoles. Are. Fucking. Simple.*

@IMAHAPYHIPPO: Your rage induced rant has made you miss the point of this thread lol.

can't people just not be for or against something and we can all have our personal preferences?

Confirmed, consoles are for simple folk.

Occasionally "Fucking Simple" folk too.

You can get a longer HDMI cable if the TV is in another room. That is what I do. Xinput controllers like the Xbox controllers work without any additional drivers or setup. Also, consoles used to be simple. They are not plug and play anymore.

Sadly, not in the gaming community.

Perhaps they were right that playing video games would rot our brains. Playing video games certainly has brought up a generation of adult (in age) children who want to act like their platform is the end-all be-all and that this must be spread around to gamers on other platforms like some Holy text.

I mean, these are just video game platforms. They're just entertainment. There's no need for these kinds of attitudes. This is a place where opinions really are opinions. We all have our preferences, and that's okay. We should all just let each other be.

What a bitch fest lol ?

I'm not talking adjacent room far away, I'm talking, computer is downstairs on the left side of the house, gaming room is upstairs on the right side of the house far away.

Also, the key word on both the HDMI cable and the Xinput controller is "can." You "can" do these things. If you buy a PS4 it comes with a controller in the box, already programmed to work with the console.

@Juub1990: No sir. No rage. I don't care enough about a stranger's opinion to get heated IRL. It's just the simple truth: Consoles will always be easier, not to mention the myriad of other reasons people choose console over PC. But it never keeps people from making the same pointless threads over and over and over and over again.

@IMAHAPYHIPPO: So, when you buy an xbox 360, xbox one, or xbox elite controller and plug it in to your pc, exactly what driver needs to be installed, and what settings do you need to configure?

Honestly, the controller is a non issue. It is super easy to get the Xbox controller working on PC. If running the PC to multiple rooms is not something people want to do due to it being more complicated, that is fine. People make the choice of how they want to have their setup. A PC in the living room is just like a console in the living room. They both sit there and output to your TV. Whether that is the primary PC or secondary one is up to the individual.

@BassMan: Plus, if your wired network is decent, steam in home streaming actually works, with good image quality.

Unlike the garbage known as remote play.....

@appariti0n: Well, that's a loaded question. Most PC games are preconfigured for Xbox controllers. But that's the point. It's *most*. *Most* of the time, you simply plug in the USB cord for your Xbox controller into your PC and everything works fine. *Most*. That's why people buy consoles. There's no *most* with consoles. It's *always*. When you purchase an Xbox console, this isn't even a conversation. Controller configuration is a byline, not a topic. You get an MS brand controller with your MS brand device, and every game that comes out on the device you purchased was configured to the one controller your device came with in the box.

I'm still baffled this is a debate. It's stupefying that PC-only gamers can't understand why people would choose a console over a PC.

@IMAHAPYHIPPO: Can you actually name a game on PC where the xbox controllers don't work?

Oh, and games that don't support controller in the first place don't count. So no calling out Age of empires, civilization, MOBAs, etc.

I'm also curious what sort of driver installation process you had to go through.

I could name you 4,958.

@gamebox: Do it.

@IMAHAPYHIPPO: It's not that we can't understand people wanting to own a console over a gaming PC, hell most of us own at least one modern console as well. We just like boasting about how great it is, just like every faction on this board and their preferred platform. No one is trying to convert you anymore than the Sony, MS or Nintendo fans are trying to convert you to their side.

DS4 controller is supported in Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 3 and Forza 7 on PC, that tickles me :)

Last week some of my mates were round, we were playing PC Gears of War 4 on the TV, split screen campaign, one using a 360 controller and the other using a DS4.

As I said before, the problem with hardcore pc gamers is that they are so used to playing on high end rigs that they forgot what it's like to game on a crappy one! I remember and those times weren't so great at all!

The same works for KB/M on a PC. It's fine if you prefer one thing over the other, but you're trying to make a point that's really altogether moot.

...but a controller isn't the default input for a PC. I guess we should be critical that you can't plug a Kb/M into an Xbox and have it work in every game.