So system wars has been trying to make BioWare the new pariahs of the industry..

BioWare elite? :lol:
You know, to become elite you have to be consistent. Pressing a button and something awesome happening won't account for becoming elite.
And I don't get the stab at SE, even though they their latest installment was messed up, they acknowlegded their fault. BioWare just took a dump on their fans.
BioWare just bans, locks, deletes any critisism posted on their website/forum, blind to their own garbage they produced.

Locutus_Picard

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Because Bioware has released more than one game over the past 2 years?SkyWard20

which were all slippimg as far as game content and depth goes.

how about no.

really? having an personal opinion is silly?

lawlessx

Your opinion is just that.

In the real world, Bioware is a much heralded, AAA dev whose games are loved by millions.

Bioware is a AAA dev. Their next will be AAA and sell millions. What more can I say?

[QUOTE="lawlessx"] really? having an personal opinion is silly?

gamecubepad

Your opinion is just that.

In the real world, Bioware is a much heralded, AAA dev whose games are loved by millions.

Bioware is a AAA dev. Their next will be AAA and sell millions. What more can I say?

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]

which were all slippimg as far as game content and depth goes.lawlessx

how about no.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]

which were all slippimg as far as game content and depth goes.DarkLink77

how about no.

even character specific missions were reduced to just that. i've played a few character-specific ( kasumi, for example ) mass effect 2 missions and they were more bloody fantastic than any character sidequest i've seen done in mass effect 1.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

how about no.

SkyWard20

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]It's one game. I think their past successes definitely matter. It's not so horrible to still be a fan of a developer even if they don't always turn out gold. I mean where would developers like Nintendo be if their fanbase just up and abandoned them after every less-than-stellar game they've churned out?

Vaasman

Nintendo is God, they e'fing saved console gaming as we know it, and molded the gaming industry. There's nothing to criticize about them, and if you dislike the games, it's your personal preferance.

Though this thread is about the failure of Bioware, and it's selling out to $$, not about Nintendo.

I can understand hating on the Wii. I hate motion gaming, but i don't care about proving my hate.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]It's one game. I think their past successes definitely matter. It's not so horrible to still be a fan of a developer even if they don't always turn out gold. I mean where would developers like Nintendo be if their fanbase just up and abandoned them after every less-than-stellar game they've churned out?

....this is exactly the point i just made a page ago.lawlessx

Can't please everybody. That's how it goes.

Bioware is an elite dev. The industry standards of metacritic and sales back this. Also, I love their games, especially Mass Effect. My opinion is greater than yours. That's your approach with some facts behind it.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="lawlessx"] mass effect 2 and dragon age 2 should really come to mind when the words "lack of depth" come to mind.

lawlessx

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

how about no.

SkyWard20

So instead of trying to fix the Mako (which was a good idea, just poorly a implemented one), they remove the Mako completely and give us planet scanning, which is worse.

I would rather do Mako missions than scan planets. Scanning planets is incredibly boring and reeks of lazy design.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Nintendo has a legacy for their many games released in a span of 20+ years, you can't even compare the two. Lucianu

Nintendo is God, they e'fing saved console gaming as we know it, and molded the gaming industry. There's nothing to criticize about them, and if you dislike the games, it's your personal preferance.

Though this thread is about the failure of Bioware, and it's selling out to $$, not about Nintendo.

I can understand hating on the Wii. I hate motion gaming, but i don't care about proving my hate.

the failure of bioware, is of course, factual.

the failure of bioware, is of course, factual.

SkyWard20

You can't deny that it kills the boredom.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] How about yeah? ME to ME2? Less content. Less RPG elements, inferior plot. DAO to DAII? Less content. Less RPG elements, recycled dungeons, content. Just less.DarkLink77

So instead of trying to fix the Mako (which was a good idea, just poorly a implemented one), they remove the Mako completely and give us planet scanning, which is worse.

I would rather do Mako missions than scan planets. Scanning planets is incredibly boring and reeks of lazy design.

and how bout those elevators that were in mass effect? Was an awesome idea,but sadly people hated them because they took too long ..so bioware scraps them and adds loading screens that take THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO LOAD!

[QUOTE="lawlessx"] really? having an personal opinion is silly?

Your opinion is just that.

In the real world, Bioware is a much heralded, AAA dev whose games are loved by millions.

Bioware is a AAA dev. Their next will be AAA and sell millions. What more can I say?

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] How about yeah? ME to ME2? Less content. Less RPG elements, inferior plot. DAO to DAII? Less content. Less RPG elements, recycled dungeons, content. Just less.DarkLink77

So instead of trying to fix the Mako (which was a good idea, just poorly a implemented one), they remove the Mako completely and give us planet scanning, which is worse.

I would rather do Mako missions than scan planets. Scanning planets is incredibly boring and reeks of lazy design.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Less content? Do you realize that a good chunk of the content were those f***ing mako missions?SkyWard20

So instead of trying to fix the Mako (which was a good idea, just poorly a implemented one), they remove the Mako completely and give us planet scanning, which is worse.

I would rather do Mako missions than scan planets. Scanning planets is incredibly boring and reeks of lazy design.

what on earth are you talking about?

Last time I checked mass 2 didn't even sell that much to be considered by the masses all that much either, so really they're in the "I don't reaqlly know what's my audience" at this point in time really.edo-tensei

ME2 week 1 sales

The game likely hit over 2 million on the 360 alone. That's the audience. The 360 fans who like action-rpgs. It was designed for the 360, afterall.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Less content? Do you realize that a good chunk of the content were those f***ing mako missions?SkyWard20

So instead of trying to fix the Mako (which was a good idea, just poorly a implemented one), they remove the Mako completely and give us planet scanning, which is worse.

I would rather do Mako missions than scan planets. Scanning planets is incredibly boring and reeks of lazy design.

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

the failure of bioware, is of course, factual.

Lucianu

You can't deny that it kills the boredom.

It's murder, the need to show everyone else that the games I like are better.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

So instead of trying to fix the Mako (which was a good idea, just poorly a implemented one), they remove the Mako completely and give us planet scanning, which is worse.

I would rather do Mako missions than scan planets. Scanning planets is incredibly boring and reeks of lazy design.

DarkLink77

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

And what was there to fix about the Mako missions?

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Nintendo has a legacy for their many games released in a span of 20+ years, you can't even compare the two. edo-tensei

Besides if you were a real RPG fan you'd play PnP instead, because video games aren't even going to touch PnP in strict role-playing for a long, long time.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] I would... not? Scanning planets isn't really comparable to all of Mass Effect 1's sidequests. Most of the sidequests in Mass Effect 1 were with the Mako... scanning planets is more like harvesting minerals and discs in Mass Effect 1. The real sidequests... are better. You're saying they just cut out content for the sake of cutting out content, instead of using available funds to improve other aspects of the game.SkyWard20

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] I would... not? Scanning planets isn't really comparable to all of Mass Effect 1's sidequests. Most of the sidequests in Mass Effect 1 were with the Mako... scanning planets is more like harvesting minerals and discs in Mass Effect 1. The real sidequests... are better. You're saying they just cut out content for the sake of cutting out content, instead of using available funds to improve other aspects of the game.SkyWard20

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

I'm sure they used that money on something. But they they improved very few of the major complaints from ME. Most of them were just cut entirely. Combat got better, but that was about it.

Besides if you were a real RPG fan you'd play PnP instead, because video games aren't even going to touch PnP in strict role-playing for a long, long time.

Vaasman

Most people can play both. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]And in 20+ years Nintendo has churned out nothing but legendary amazing games that nobody could ever criticize right?

Besides if you were a real RPG fan you'd play PnP instead, because video games aren't even going to touch PnP in strict role-playing for a long, long time.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

DarkLink77

I'm sure they used that money on something. But they they improved very few of the major complaints from ME. Most of them were just cut entirely. Combat got better, but that was about it.

Was there anything actually... good about the mako, in people's minds, I mean? I didn't think they were horrible; just something that I wouldn't miss.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] You... you don't think it's more plausible to say they used their funds on something else? Cutting out the mako content doesn't mean they cut out part of their budget they would otherwise invest.SkyWard20

I'm sure they used that money on something. But they they improved very few of the major complaints from ME. Most of them were just cut entirely. Combat got better, but that was about it.

Was there anything actually... good about the mako, in people's minds, I mean? I didn't think they were horrible; just something that I wouldn't miss.

It's no secret EA had something to do with DA2 being rushed out the door before ME3....

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

I'm sure they used that money on something. But they they improved very few of the major complaints from ME. Most of them were just cut entirely. Combat got better, but that was about it.

DarkLink77

Was there anything actually... good about the mako, in people's minds, I mean? I didn't think they were horrible; just something that I wouldn't miss.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]

which were all slippimg as far as game content and depth goes.DarkLink77

how about no.

There'll be more content, it'll just come in the form of DLC.

This whole "EA is the root of any and all of Bioware currnt flaws" I pick up from threads like these comes off as petty blame shifting. Hypothetically, even if EA did convince Bioware to expand it's market, that doesn't excuse Bioware are creating half-assed plots and cut-and-pasted level designs. Honestly, I think Bioware saw all the money they raked with ME2 and decided to follow suit with that because it was easier. Dragon Age 2 pretty much proves it; Origins was critically well-recieved and made a lot of money. About the only complaints were over the console-ports of the game. Exactly how they saw those complaints and came to the conclusion to make a hack-n-slas, with cut and past levels is beyond me.

It's no secret EA had something to do with DA2 being rushed out the door before ME3....

skrat_01

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

DarkLink77

I'm sure they used that money on something.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

how about no.

Lionheart08

There'll be more content, it'll just come in the form of DLC.

This whole "EA is the root of any and all of Bioware currnt flaws" I pick up from threads like these comes off as petty blame shifting. Hypothetically, even if EA did convince Bioware to expand it's market, that doesn't excuse Bioware are creating half-assed plots and cut-and-pasted level designs. Honestly, I think Bioware saw all the money they raked with ME2 and decided to follow suit with that because it was easier. Dragon Age 2 pretty much proves it; Origins was critically well-recieved and made a lot of money. About the only complaints were over the console-ports of the game. Exactly how they saw those complaints and came to the conclusion to make a hack-n-slas, with cut and past levels is beyond me.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

how about no.

Lionheart08

There'll be more content, it'll just come in the form of DLC.

This whole "EA is the root of any and all of Bioware currnt flaws" I pick up from threads like these comes off as petty blame shifting. Hypothetically, even if EA did convince Bioware to expand it's market, that doesn't excuse Bioware are creating half-assed plots and cut-and-pasted level designs. Honestly, I think Bioware saw all the money they raked with ME2 and decided to follow suit with that because it was easier. Dragon Age 2 pretty much proves it; Origins was critically well-recieved and made a lot of money. About the only complaints were over the console-ports of the game. Exactly how they saw those complaints and came to the conclusion to make a hack-n-slas, with cut and past levels is beyond me.

It's EA's fault because Bioware isn't Bioware anymore. They are an EA studio and EA makes the rules.

heretrix

This is what many fail to understand. There is no Bioware anymore as it used to be. EA at this point decides everything. This is not a case of a developer giving the publishing rights for a game to EA like Crytek for example. EA owns the game and the Bioware company.

I just don't see what anyone likes about their games. Story, dialog? Maybe... but the gameplay is always, always poor.

Meh. Bioware has made my favorite new series of the generation (Mass Effect) the two letdowns I've gotten from that series in the form of the Pinnacle Station (garbage) and Arrival (Meh) DLC are far overshadowed by the greatness they've delivered in the forms of everything else they've done with the Mass Effect series (especially Mass Effect 2).

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"] How is it evolution to remove things.

locopatho

I just don't see what anyone likes about their games. Story, dialog? Maybe... but the gameplay is always, always poor.

Pug-Nasty

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

It's EA's fault because Bioware isn't Bioware anymore. They are an EA studio and EA makes the rules.

edidili

This is what many fail to understand. There is no Bioware anymore as it used to be. EA at this point decides everything. This is not a case of a developer giving the publishing rights for a game to EA like Crytek for example. EA owns the game and the Bioware company.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

That's exactly what they did. They didn't actually try to fix anything people complained about. They just cut it out.

And the side quests in Mass Effect 2 were terrible.

lawlessx

But you have to ask yourself this......Is it even needed?dreman999

If thats what Bioware was concerned about why not just lock there armours appearance? I'm sure there would still be complaints but at least they could say that they gave us the options to customize our team as we seen fit. Hell the game itself throws armour that your character can't use at you like it was out of style. Why did they even include the armour into loot pools outside of your choosen class? Why did they not just toss some extra gold at you or you know...stuff hawke of your choosing might be able to use.

It's flat out lazy they couldn't even be bothered to remove the items you can't use from the loot pools only to taunt your mage characters with awesome armour peices that would make them far more usefull or bows that make Bianca cry. Perfect world they would tailor some armour drops to each member of your party so they can keep there precious visuals and give us the customization options that people who play these types of games want. It's not a question of mainstream appeal because Bioware got allot of "Mainstream" hate about some stupid design choices they made so they could cut corners.

hell thats only one of many things they did amazingly poorly in developement...don't even get me started on having a grand total of 8 areas to fight/explore.

Wait, even with the glaring bull- above...the game got a 8.0?
I've seen game scores succomb to low 6's because of smaller and more trivial things than the thing stated above...but Dragon Age gets a free pass for it?
And the last time I saw 8 area's in total was in Devil May Cry 4...seems to me Dragon Age would barely deserve a 7.0
This is what publicity and hype can do, sucker people into buying garbage at full price.

There is just so much anamosity for BioWare right now... sad. Most of it is just speculation to. people critiquing games from heresay and assumptions as to what is said behind closed doors. Hopefully BioWare proves you're all a bunch of cackling hens when they drop ME3...