So system wars has been trying to make BioWare the new pariahs of the industry..

[QUOTE="dreman999"] But you have to ask yourself this......Is it even needed?Jynxzor

If thats what Bioware was concerned about why not just lock there armours appearance? I'm sure there would still be complaints but at least they could say that they gave us the options to customize our team as we seen fit. Hell the game itself throws armour that your character can't use at you like it was out of style. Why did they even include the armour into loot pools outside of your choosen class? Why did they not just toss some extra gold at you or you know...stuff hawke of your choosing might be able to use.

It's flat out lazy they couldn't even be bothered to remove the items you can't use from the loot pools only to taunt your mage characters with awesome armour peices that would make them far more usefull or bows that make Bianca cry. Perfect world they would tailor some armour drops to each member of your party so they can keep there precious visuals and give us the customization options that people who play these types of games want. It's not a question of mainstream appeal because Bioware got allot of "Mainstream" hate about some stupid design choices they made so they could cut corners.

hell thats only one of many things they did amazingly poorly in developement...don't even get me started on having a grand total of 8 areas to fight/explore.

1. All I mostly got was mage robes.

2. You still didn't tell me why it's need.

3. It's a prefeance.

^^ are you serious dreman? did you really just ignore that entire post? There were alot of points made that is the main reason why my respect meter for bioware is dropping

Cackling hens? Not sure I've heard that one before. Anyways Dragon Age was something different from Mass effect, it was a fresh take with a similar system. Dragon Age II is pretty much Mass Effect with Swords. "well at least you can directly control your part members in Dragon age still" Bioware hasn't been doing themselves any favors by reacting to the press and fans alike like the things we are suggesting are bad for our health. I'm sure ME3 will be lauded with sales and scores, doesn't make it the end all of RPG's.Jynxzor

^^ are you serious dreman? did you really just ignore that entire post? There were alot of points made that is the main reason why my respect meter for bioware is dropping

lawlessx

If someone can tell me a good reason, I'll gladly change my mind.dreman999

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]Cackling hens? Not sure I've heard that one before. Anyways Dragon Age was something different from Mass effect, it was a fresh take with a similar system. Dragon Age II is pretty much Mass Effect with Swords. "well at least you can directly control your part members in Dragon age still" Bioware hasn't been doing themselves any favors by reacting to the press and fans alike like the things we are suggesting are bad for our health. I'm sure ME3 will be lauded with sales and scores, doesn't make it the end all of RPG's.dreman999

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old style gameplay.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

I've noticed a clear outpouring of hateboys on this forum going for BioWares throat, calling them washed up and under EA's spell and maybe the worst of all, comparing them to that bumbling mess known as Square Enix. Now I know that the opinions expressed in System Wars dont account for one percent of one percent of the opinions of the gaming comunity, but seriously guys? Bioware is still one of the elite and leading developers on earth and while yes, the vision of bioware has seemingly been impacted by the EA money factory, Bioware is still turning out highly rated and asthetically immersive games and will continue to.

.

.

The company has more on their plate then ever before with an MMO, sequals to highly touted games and multiplat development and yet they still turn out high quality work.

Im no appologist for anything in this business, I call it exactly how I see it... Bioware has nothing to appologize about.

Lucianu

Bioware is nothing close to elite. Maybe top 20. Maybe lower considering the mess that was DA2, a inferior hack 'n slash game compared to the original, that has less RPG elements than JRPGs.

But ofcouse, no one should predicting the death of Bioware, i mean they did manage to overcome the horrible nightmare that was Baldur's Gate: Alliance on the consoles, and managed to produce incredible games after that. So they might return to their senses.

Valve, Blizzard, Nintendo and Id software are Elite, God tier. Bioware is nothing compared to these Gods of gaming.

Im sorry but Nintendo hasnt made anything technically stunning since Mario 64 and that was a long time ago. There games these day have less depth than flash games made by teenagers. They are a staple of video game history, and back when they made Super Mario for the SNES they were gods, today they are a joke and do not deserve to be on any list with Bioware, Valve, or Blizzard.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Jynxzor"]Cackling hens? Not sure I've heard that one before. Anyways Dragon Age was something different from Mass effect, it was a fresh take with a similar system. Dragon Age II is pretty much Mass Effect with Swords. "well at least you can directly control your part members in Dragon age still" Bioware hasn't been doing themselves any favors by reacting to the press and fans alike like the things we are suggesting are bad for our health. I'm sure ME3 will be lauded with sales and scores, doesn't make it the end all of RPG's.edidili

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old style gameplay.

Couldnt have said it better myself, gaming would be 100x better if they replaced every new shooter with an RPG that was close to the depth and quality DA:O had.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Valve >= Bioware > Blizzard > rest.
.
Saying Bioware in not a top developers is something I wouldn't exepct to see even here. Anyway, let's hope ME3 fix this insanity.

Vaasman

Here, let me Fix that up for you

Valve > Bethesda = Obsidion >Blizzard >Bioware.

Thats about right.

[QUOTE="dreman999"] If someone can tell me a good reason, I'll gladly change my mind.Jynxzor

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] Dragon age was Kotor mix the WOW and then filled out with Lordof the rings. It was a throw back. Nothing it did was new. Most people liked it becaue it was a tradition crpg with some new things added. I like DA:O but outside the origins part, I don't understand why it on such a high horse.lordreaven

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old ****gameplay.

Couldnt have said it better myself, gaming would be 100x better if they replaced every new shooter with an RPG that was close to the depth and quality DA:O had.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Jynxzor"]Cackling hens? Not sure I've heard that one before. Anyways Dragon Age was something different from Mass effect, it was a fresh take with a similar system. Dragon Age II is pretty much Mass Effect with Swords. "well at least you can directly control your part members in Dragon age still" Bioware hasn't been doing themselves any favors by reacting to the press and fans alike like the things we are suggesting are bad for our health. I'm sure ME3 will be lauded with sales and scores, doesn't make it the end all of RPG's.edidili

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old ****gameplay.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] Dragon age was Kotor mix the WOW and then filled out with Lordof the rings. It was a throw back. Nothing it did was new. Most people liked it becaue it was a tradition crpg with some new things added. I like DA:O but outside the origins part, I don't understand why it on such a high horse.dreman999

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old ****gameplay.

Every game is flawed, but thats not the point. The point is that while we have hundreds of shooters a year, we only get an amazing top notch RPG like DA:O and KOTOR once in a while. Whether they are perfect or not doesnt matter, what matters is this genre is precious to alot of people, the 3 or 4 companies that still dedicate themselves to making high quality RPG's instead of another shooter to make more money are gods to us.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Here, let me Fix that up for you

Valve > Bethesda = Obsidion >Blizzard >Bioware.

Thats about right.

lordreaven

Speaking of the armor system.

In NWN oc, your henchman cannot use equiptment you get. They get those special armor / level upgrades when leveled up. (they simply replaced the npc you get with a buffed up one)
In NWN SOU/HOU, you get to equip them with whatever you get, as long as they have the proficiency.

DAO to DA2 is kinda like the other way around.. :?

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old ****gameplay.

chrion133

Every game is flawed, but thats not the point. The point is that while we have hundreds of shooters a year, we only get an amazing top notch RPG like DA:O and KOTOR once in a while. Whether they are perfect or not doesnt matter, what matters is this genre is precious to alot of people, the 3 or 4 companies that still dedicate themselves to making high quality RPG's instead of another shooter to make more money are gods to us.

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

I've noticed a clear outpouring of hateboys on this forum going for BioWares throat, calling them washed up and under EA's spell and maybe the worst of all, comparing them to that bumbling mess known as Square Enix. Now I know that the opinions expressed in System Wars dont account for one percent of one percent of the opinions of the gaming comunity, but seriously guys? Bioware is still one of the elite and leading developers on earth and while yes, the vision of bioware has seemingly been impacted by the EA money factory, Bioware is still turning out highly rated and asthetically immersive games and will continue to.

.

.

The company has more on their plate then ever before with an MMO, sequals to highly touted games and multiplat development and yet they still turn out high quality work.

Im no appologist for anything in this business, I call it exactly how I see it... Bioware has nothing to appologize about.

Lucianu

Bioware is nothing close to elite. Maybe top 20. Maybe lower considering the mess that was DA2, a inferior hack 'n slash game compared to the original, that has less RPG elements than JRPGs.

But ofcouse, no one should predicting the death of Bioware, i mean they did manage to overcome the horrible nightmare that was Baldur's Gate: Alliance on the consoles, and managed to produce incredible games after that. So they might return to their senses.

Valve, Blizzard, Nintendo and Id software are Elite, God tier. Bioware is nothing compared to these Gods of gaming.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

[QUOTE="TheEroica"]

I've noticed a clear outpouring of hateboys on this forum going for BioWares throat, calling them washed up and under EA's spell and maybe the worst of all, comparing them to that bumbling mess known as Square Enix. Now I know that the opinions expressed in System Wars dont account for one percent of one percent of the opinions of the gaming comunity, but seriously guys? Bioware is still one of the elite and leading developers on earth and while yes, the vision of bioware has seemingly been impacted by the EA money factory, Bioware is still turning out highly rated and asthetically immersive games and will continue to.

.

.

The company has more on their plate then ever before with an MMO, sequals to highly touted games and multiplat development and yet they still turn out high quality work.

Im no appologist for anything in this business, I call it exactly how I see it... Bioware has nothing to appologize about.

Mozelleple112

Bioware is nothing close to elite. Maybe top 20. Maybe lower considering the mess that was DA2, a inferior hack 'n slash game compared to the original, that has less RPG elements than JRPGs.

But ofcouse, no one should predicting the death of Bioware, i mean they did manage to overcome the horrible nightmare that was Baldur's Gate: Alliance on the consoles, and managed to produce incredible games after that. So they might return to their senses.

Valve, Blizzard, Nintendo and Id software are Elite, God tier. Bioware is nothing compared to these Gods of gaming.

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"][QUOTE="Lucianu"]

Bioware is nothing close to elite. Maybe top 20. Maybe lower considering the mess that was DA2, a inferior hack 'n slash game compared to the original, that has less RPG elements than JRPGs.

But ofcouse, no one should predicting the death of Bioware, i mean they did manage to overcome the horrible nightmare that was Baldur's Gate: Alliance on the consoles, and managed to produce incredible games after that. So they might return to their senses.

Valve, Blizzard, Nintendo and Id software are Elite, God tier. Bioware is nothing compared to these Gods of gaming.

dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] + Kojima Productions ;)Mozelleple112

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Oh yes...The let fill it with cut scene elite dev....So original.

dreman999

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

It doesn't need to be new though. Shooters play almost the same as they did 20 years ago but there are still millions who love em. Dragon Age was a modern crpg and that's why players liked it. Changing it into an action rpg was just stupid, after all there are a lot of action rpgs coming out right now while there is no AAA game with team tactical old ****gameplay.

Couldnt have said it better myself, gaming would be 100x better if they replaced every new shooter with an RPG that was close to the depth and quality DA:O had.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]Obsidian > Blizzard... you've got to be kidding me.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] I don't like Starcraft, I don't like Wow, I don't like Warcraft. All I like from Blizzard is Diablo, while Obsidian has made Planescape (Obsidian is basiclly all black ilse employees), FallOut New Vegas, Alpha Protocal etc. Now, they would be amazing if it were not for all their bugs Q&A misses

lordreaven

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

Couldnt have said it better myself, gaming would be 100x better if they replaced every new shooter with an RPG that was close to the depth and quality DA:O had.

lordreaven

The only reason why Bioware is talked about negatively is because of some of the comments they made about Square Enix. Bioware has great games, but sometimes it seems like they think that theycan critique other devs that have been around much longer.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Funny thing is that would mostly be like Crysis and COD.

dreman999

Call of Duty is popular because there is no depth to it.

And FYI there are plenty of shooters with depth.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Funny thing is that would mostly be like Crysis and COD.

dreman999

Bioshock? STALKER? ARMA II? Metro 2033? Call of Duty has no depth.

We need more Fallout and STALKER type games. I wouldn't want more FPSes or RPGs like DAO. DA:O was horribly overrated. It lost any sort of fun factor before half the game was even over. Only reason I continued it was to see what happened next in the story. Combat was so terrible it almost made it not worth it. One of the few games I forced myself to play through till the end.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] I never said that.DarkLink77

Call of Duty is popular because there is no depth to it.

And FYI there are plenty of shooters with depth.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] I know, but They're the only fps with depth in them........Very sad if you think about it.

dreman999

Call of Duty is popular because there is no depth to it.

And FYI there are plenty of shooters with depth.

battlefield 2... deus ex multiplayer even had it lol

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] I know, but They're the only fps with depth in them........Very sad if you think about it.

dreman999

Call of Duty is popular because there is no depth to it.

And FYI there are plenty of shooters with depth.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] I never said that.ChubbyGuy40

Bioshock? STALKER? ARMA II? Metro 2033? Call of Duty has no depth.

We need more Fallout and STALKER type games. I wouldn't want more FPSes or RPGs like DAO. DA:O was horribly overrated. It lost any sort of fun factor before half the game was even over. Only reason I continued it was to see what happened next in the story. Combat was so terrible it almost made it not worth it. One of the few games I forced myself to play through till the end.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Call of Duty is popular because there is no depth to it.

And FYI there are plenty of shooters with depth.

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] What other fps do you upgrade your guns, gear, perks, and armour. I may not like it but it took the whole armour/weopon Idea and made it popular in FPS. It's only problem is that it did not add to the system and it broken. The only 2 men who can fix it is bing sued by the people who own the rights to the game.

dreman999

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Funny thing is that would mostly be like Crysis and COD.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] That stuff does not equal "depth" in shooters. But if you're looking for a Role Playing shooter, there's a ton of better ones, like the stuff ChubbyGuy has already listed.

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] I never said that.lordreaven

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="dreman999"] I know, but They're the only fps with depth in them........Very sad if you think about it.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Their's 2 types of depth in games, story and combate. If changing your gear in rpgs add depth. Why not shooters? It's not that COD has no depth, it just that it's very very broken.

dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Bioshock, yes in plot but the whole combat balance is thrown off by the fact that you can't die. Metro is....eeehhhh, broken. A peanut can kill the people you fight and it should be open world, not a coradore shooter.

Slashkice

What settings did you use?

But no seriously, you can die in Bioshock. I'm not quite sure what you're on about with Metro. A bullet to the head drops humans pretty easily (obviously), but enemy health never felt low - felt quite right actually. I don't know if you're serious with the open world comment - it wouldn't suit the game for obvious reasons nor does every game have to be open world.

As for metro I'mtaking about the bad AI.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Because depth in shooters is based on the steepness of the learning curve. Call of Duty doesn't have one. Just about every FPS game has more depth than Call of Duty, especially PC titles like Quake, UT, Counter Strike, etc.DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Not at all. Just because somethings hard doesn't make it deep. Just making it hard to learn does not make it deep ether. It's what you can do in the game.

dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Not what I mean..... If you die in Bioshock you get brought back to life, in the same are with less bullets and less mana or what to the same gut you just tryied to kill with the same amout of damage you left on them.....Youdon't die in bioshock.....It you meat something hard....you just grind it to death. What ever stratagy you have it pointless because you can attack everything with with your infinant lives till it die no matter what setting. Tactic is just a matter of conveniance in Bioshock.

Slashkice

Yeah, that's what I figured you meant. And when I said you can die in Bioshock, I meant you actually can die in Bioshock. The whole "you're dead, load a save!" kind of dead. It's an option in some menu - going by your post I guess it's on by default.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] The systems in Call of Duy are inherently broken. You cannot have a skill based game and have perks and killstreaks.DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] But that does not take out depth. That just makes the game broken.

dreman999