System Wars Myths/Arguments That Need to Die - Complete Edition with bonus

grats pc. :)CaseyWegner

Nintendo should make PC games. I've just now decided that.

that doesn't even make sense...

console and pc are two different industries...

if not, what is the NAME of the pc that sony and ms are fighting? :roll:

tango90101

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="tango90101"]

that doesn't even make sense...

console and pc are two different industries...

if not, what is the NAME of the pc that sony and ms are fighting? :roll:

Heil68

it makes perfect sense. if you want to take the pc out of system wars, why not take the ps3 out of the ps3 forum? when somebody makes a pc vs. 360 thread in either the 360 forum or the pc forum, where do we send them? here. why? because it's "system wars."

the pc platform is simply referred to as the pc.

EXACTLY!!

but this fact will go beyond casey's realm of comprehension...

bah...he's too far gone... okay, case, you win... YOU'RE right..and the entire world is wrong...:roll:

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="tango90101"]

that doesn't even make sense...

console and pc are two different industries...

if not, what is the NAME of the pc that sony and ms are fighting? :roll:

tango90101

it makes perfect sense. if you want to take the pc out of system wars, why not take the ps3 out of the ps3 forum? when somebody makes a pc vs. 360 thread in either the 360 forum or the pc forum, where do we send them? here. why? because it's "system wars."

the pc platform is simply referred to as the pc.

EXACTLY!!

but this fact will go beyond casey's realm of comprehension...

bah...he's too far gone... okay, case, you win... YOU'RE right..and the entire world is wrong...:roll:

let's simplify this and take it one step at a time. can games be played on the pc?

[QUOTE="thew13"]

My point from above covers this

PC doesn't effect console gaming.

CaseyWegner

yes it does. walk into a video game store and what do you see? games for all the current gaming platforms including the pc. is pc gaming as popular as console gaming? no. does it still affect console gaming? yes.

no it doesn't...

do you have proof that pc game sales are impacting console sales?

you do realize pc game sales are a fraction of console game sales, right...?

[QUOTE="tango90101"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="tango90101"]

that doesn't even make sense...

console and pc are two different industries...

if not, what is the NAME of the pc that sony and ms are fighting? :roll:

CaseyWegner

it makes perfect sense. if you want to take the pc out of system wars, why not take the ps3 out of the ps3 forum? when somebody makes a pc vs. 360 thread in either the 360 forum or the pc forum, where do we send them? here. why? because it's "system wars."

the pc platform is simply referred to as the pc.

EXACTLY!!

but this fact will go beyond casey's realm of comprehension...

bah...he's too far gone... okay, case, you win... YOU'RE right..and the entire world is wrong...:roll:

let's simplify this and take it one step at a time. can games be played on the pc?

some pc yes... if the consumer has the money to buy the pc needed to run the game...

try running a new game on a 8 year old pc.... ;)

remembering that pc's don't have "generations" like consoles...

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="thew13"]

My point from above covers this

PC doesn't effect console gaming.

tango90101

yes it does. walk into a video game store and what do you see? games for all the current gaming platforms including the pc. is pc gaming as popular as console gaming? no. does it still affect console gaming? yes.

no it doesn't...

do you have proof that pc game sales are impacting console sales?

you do realize pc game sales are a fraction of console game sales, right...?

yes. i have proof. multiplat (360/pc) games have kept me from getting a 360. i'm not the only one who's said this.

yes... tango90101

ok. good. can one walk into a video game store and buy pc games?

[QUOTE="tango90101"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="thew13"]

My point from above covers this

PC doesn't effect console gaming.

CaseyWegner

yes it does. walk into a video game store and what do you see? games for all the current gaming platforms including the pc. is pc gaming as popular as console gaming? no. does it still affect console gaming? yes.

no it doesn't...

do you have proof that pc game sales are impacting console sales?

you do realize pc game sales are a fraction of console game sales, right...?

yes. i have proof. multiplat (360/pc) games have kept me from getting a 360. i'm not the only one who's said this.

you're an anomoly... then again..we knew that... :D

if your theory was true, pc games sales would rival console games sales...

but they don't...do they...;)

[QUOTE="tango90101"]

yes... CaseyWegner

ok. good. can one walk into a video game store and buy pc games?

creative editing? nice one, Mr. O'reilly...:roll:

and yes...SOME pc games...

yes

tango90101

great. does the title of this form say "system wars"?

you're an anomoly... then again..we knew that... :D

if your theory was true, pc games sales would rival console games sales...

but they don't...do they...;)

tango90101

i just proved my theory was true. :|if somebody buys a pc game instead of a 360 to play that game, it impacts the competition.

[QUOTE="tango90101"]

yes

CaseyWegner

great. does the title of this form say "system wars"?

yes. but my point, that you conviently ignore is that the gaming "systems" are "GAMING SYSTEMS"...

not pc... which is NOT marketted as "gaming systems" but PERSONAL COMPUTERS....

my otherpoint is that it's not equitable to say a game is not exclusive becuase it lands on a pc... with difference controller, different options, different gameplay, and horrendous value compared toconsoles. (not to mention pc versions are often made by a different team than made the console version)

[QUOTE="tango90101"]

you're an anomoly... then again..we knew that... :D

if your theory was true, pc games sales would rival console games sales...

but they don't...do they...;)

CaseyWegner

i just proved my theory was true. :|if somebody buys a pc game instead of a 360 to play that game, it impacts the competition.

crazy people are CONVINCED people are reading their thoughts... is that "proof"?

btw: you're ignoring the different review criteria for pc games than consoles... i wonder why... (hint: not. the. same.)

yes. tango90101

awesome. this is going well. do consoles and the pc compete for goty here?

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="tango90101"]

you're an anomoly... then again..we knew that... :D

if your theory was true, pc games sales would rival console games sales...

but they don't...do they...;)

tango90101

i just proved my theory was true. :|if somebody buys a pc game instead of a 360 to play that game, it impacts the competition.

crazy people are CONVINCED people are reading their thoughts... is that "proof"?

btw: you're ignoring the different review criteria for pc games than consoles... i wonder why... (hint: not. the. same.)

i just told you that i'm not the only one who has passed up buying a 360 because of games for the pc. this isa fact and not an opinion. i don't know why you're trying to refute it.

Tango - you have to stop arguing aboutPC not being relevantare here in SW - you will not win that argument. Although I fall in between you and Casey in how you feel about PC vs. console I tend to agree with your side, but you can't win the argument unless you discuss the outside world that doesn't know about SW. Go back a few pages and you'll see my points.

I agree with Casey you can't take the PC out of the equation, but on the other hand the PC is a small part of that equation

Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion.

Casey says:

awesome. this is going well. do consoles and the pc compete for goty here

Tango - see this is my point, Casey can alays fall back to 'here' to refute any point you try to make.

Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion. thew13

[QUOTE="thew13"] Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion. Jandurin

It is still his opinion on why he didn't buy it. The same argument is made here all the timeabout quality of games and someone buying or not buying the game due to score here. The review is opinion the purchase(or non) is fact.

If the argument works for the purchaing of games (it's always the individuals own reason, not the score) the same can be said about buying a 360 (why or why not doesn't matter)

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="thew13"] Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion. thew13

It is still his opinion on why he didn't buy it. The same argument is made here all the timeabout quality of games and someone buying or not buying the game due to score here. The review is opinion the purchase(or non) is fact.

If the argument works for the purchaing of games (it's always the individuals own reason, not the score) the same can be said about buying a 360 (why or why not doesn't matter)

It does work the other way, of course. People who have the 360 may be less likely to bother with upgrading their PCs.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="thew13"] Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion. thew13

It is still his opinion on why he didn't buy it. The same argument is made here all the timeabout quality of games and someone buying or not buying the game due to score here. The review is opinion the purchase(or non) is fact.

If the argument works for the purchaing of games (it's always the individuals own reason, not the score) the same can be said about buying a 360 (why or why not doesn't matter)

how is it my opinion for why i didn't buy a 360? i know exactly why i didn't buy a 360. :|

Tango - you have to stop arguing aboutPC not being relevantare here in SW - you will not win that argument. Although I fall in between you and Casey in how you feel about PC vs. console I tend to agree with your side, but you can't win the argument unless you discuss the outside world that doesn't know about SW. Go back a few pages and you'll see my points.

I agree with Casey you can't take the PC out of the equation, but on the other hand the PC is a small part of that equation

Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion.

Casey says:

awesome. this is going well. do consoles and the pc compete for goty here

Tango - see this is my point, Casey can alays fall back to 'here' to refute any point you try to make.

thew13

my point has never been the magnitutude to which pc gaming affects the console industry because it's too hard to measure. my pointis just that it does affect it.

[QUOTE="thew13"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="thew13"] Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion. CaseyWegner

It is still his opinion on why he didn't buy it. The same argument is made here all the timeabout quality of games and someone buying or not buying the game due to score here. The review is opinion the purchase(or non) is fact.

If the argument works for the purchaing of games (it's always the individuals own reason, not the score) the same can be said about buying a 360 (why or why not doesn't matter)

how is it my opinion for why i didn't buy a 360? i know exactly why i didn't buy a 360. :|

Becuase you know why you didn't buy it? That's makes it your opinion. The reason I did buy one is my opinion, the reason Jandurin didn't is his opinion.

It is a FACT that I don't like peas, the reason I don't like peas is my OPINION. And obsiously I know the reason(that taste like crap), butthe WHY isstill an opinion not a fact.

Becuase you know why you didn't buy it? That's makes it your opinion. The reason I did buy one is my opinion, the reason Jandurin didn't is his opinion.

It is a FACT that I don't like peas, the reason I don't like peas is my OPINION. And obsiously I know the reason(that taste like crap), butthe WHY isstill an opinion not a fact.

thew13

your wording was a bit odd but i see what you're saying now. still, it's a fact that people didn't buy a 360 because of their opinion regarding 360/pc multiplats.

[QUOTE="thew13"]

Becuase you know why you didn't buy it? That's makes it your opinion. The reason I did buy one is my opinion, the reason Jandurin didn't is his opinion.

It is a FACT that I don't like peas, the reason I don't like peas is my OPINION. And obsiously I know the reason(that taste like crap), butthe WHY isstill an opinion not a fact.

CaseyWegner

your wording was a bit odd but i see what you're saying now. still, it's a fact that people didn't buy a 360 because of their opinion regarding 360/pc multiplats.

True and as Jandurin says it works the other way - some people may buy a 360 instead of upgrading or buying a new PC becuase of the same multiplats.

In fact a guy at work just mentioned he was going to get a 360 for Fallout 3 and I told him why not just get it for PC(he is a PC gamer). His response was 'the cost to upgrade his PC to run it was not worth it.

[QUOTE="thew13"]

Tango - you have to stop arguing aboutPC not being relevantare here in SW - you will not win that argument. Although I fall in between you and Casey in how you feel about PC vs. console I tend to agree with your side, but you can't win the argument unless you discuss the outside world that doesn't know about SW. Go back a few pages and you'll see my points.

I agree with Casey you can't take the PC out of the equation, but on the other hand the PC is a small part of that equation

Casey - you and a few people you know not buying a 360 because it istoo similarto PC doesn't make it fact, it makes it a group opinion.

Casey says:

awesome. this is going well. do consoles and the pc compete for goty here

Tango - see this is my point, Casey can alays fall back to 'here' to refute any point you try to make.

CaseyWegner

my point has never been the magnitutude to which pc gaming affects the console industry because it's too hard to measure. my pointis just that it does affect it.

ANd I agree, but think it is somewhat easier to measure and the effect is minimal at best.

Just because it has been driving me crazy (I use effect you us affect) and this still doesn't really settle which is right. I think we both could have used one or other at different times.

Affect -To act upon.DDoS attacks affect web sites in a very bad way.

Effect - The creation of a desired impression.The effect of a DDoS attack is almost the same as getting listed on Slashdot.

A good way to think about which one to use is to think about cause and effect. If that phrase applies to the point you are trying to get across, you want effect, otherwise you probably want affect.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="thew13"]

Becuase you know why you didn't buy it? That's makes it your opinion. The reason I did buy one is my opinion, the reason Jandurin didn't is his opinion.

It is a FACT that I don't like peas, the reason I don't like peas is my OPINION. And obsiously I know the reason(that taste like crap), butthe WHY isstill an opinion not a fact.

thew13

your wording was a bit odd but i see what you're saying now. still, it's a fact that people didn't buy a 360 because of their opinion regarding 360/pc multiplats.

True and as Jandurin says it works the other way - some people may buy a 360 instead of upgrading or buying a new PC becuase of the same multiplats.

In fact a guy at work just mentioned he was going to get a 360 for Fallout 3 and I told him why not just get it for PC(he is a PC gamer). His response was 'the cost to upgrade his PC to run it was not worth it.

further shows that there is competition.

[QUOTE="thew13"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="thew13"]

Becuase you know why you didn't buy it? That's makes it your opinion. The reason I did buy one is my opinion, the reason Jandurin didn't is his opinion.

It is a FACT that I don't like peas, the reason I don't like peas is my OPINION. And obsiously I know the reason(that taste like crap), butthe WHY isstill an opinion not a fact.

CaseyWegner

your wording was a bit odd but i see what you're saying now. still, it's a fact that people didn't buy a 360 because of their opinion regarding 360/pc multiplats.

True and as Jandurin says it works the other way - some people may buy a 360 instead of upgrading or buying a new PC becuase of the same multiplats.

In fact a guy at work just mentioned he was going to get a 360 for Fallout 3 and I told him why not just get it for PC(he is a PC gamer). His response was 'the cost to upgrade his PC to run it was not worth it.

further shows that there is competition.

There's always comeptition to some degree with any products that share any attribute, but my point has alwyas been how much and if it really is direct competition. In my response to Tango I make this clear. I agree with points you both make, but fall in between. If it was a political battle I would be an independent leaning to one side over the other.

The Honda Accord competes with Porsche 911's in the general automobile market, but they are not direct competitors - they have different markets. Accords compete directly with Camrys and Sentras.

Are people still complaining and bickering on why PC is a part of System Wars?Blackbond

Not here. I fully understand and support PC being part of system wars, just fighting the fact that many people think that system wars rules apply to business and real world market places.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Are people still complaining and bickering on why PC is a part of System Wars?thew13

Not here. I fully understand and support PC being part of system wars, just fighting the fact that many people think that system wars rules apply to business and real world economies.

Just as the real world doesn't apply here, here doesn't apply to the real world. I thought that was a given? Something you must understand before posting?

[QUOTE="thew13"]

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Are people still complaining and bickering on why PC is a part of System Wars?Jandurin

Not here. I fully understand and support PC being part of system wars, just fighting the fact that many people think that system wars rules apply to business and real world economies.

Just as the real world doesn't apply here, here doesn't apply to the real world. I thought that was a given? Something you must understand before posting?

I understand quite well, just seems others don't

"Sales don't matter" is the biggest, dumbest argument to come along in a while. How about adding that in bold, red letters at the top of the page? :P

Why is this "Opinion Piece" still stickied?Bgrngod

[QUOTE="Bgrngod"]Why is this "Opinion Piece" still stickied?tango90101

Home Field Advantage..

Mod opinions = "fact"...:roll:

stop trolling.

"Sales don't matter" is the biggest, dumbest argument to come along in a while. How about adding that in bold, red letters at the top of the page? :P

Tsug_Ze_Wind

[QUOTE="Tsug_Ze_Wind"]

"Sales don't matter" is the biggest, dumbest argument to come along in a while. How about adding that in bold, red letters at the top of the page? :P

subrosian

I'm sure you've heard it, but sales leads to support, which leads to more games for that system, which leads to that system having the best games, which means that system is the best. Are you implying that the PS2 wasn't the best last gen?

Every console that hassold the mosteach gen is considered to be the best of that gen.

You could argue that sales aren't the end-all, which would be a more valid argument, but you and everyone else can't deny that sales matter.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Tsug_Ze_Wind"]

"Sales don't matter" is the biggest, dumbest argument to come along in a while. How about adding that in bold, red letters at the top of the page? :P

Tsug_Ze_Wind

I'm sure you've heard it, but sales leads to support, which leads to more games for that system, which leads to that system having the best games, which means that system is the best. Are you implying that the PS2 wasn't the best last gen?

Every console that hassold the mosteach gen is considered to be the best of that gen.

You could argue that sales aren't the end-all, which would be a more valid argument, but you and everyone else can't deny that sales matter.

Games like GTA III selling better on the PS2 led to dozens of awful sandbox clones and GTA sequels. No, I would argue that the PC was the best system of the last generation, and, in fact, the review scores would back that up. Of course, we have to put review scores in the context of their system - given the *higher* expectations of PC games than PS2 games (due, in part, to better hardware - the PS2 was a long-lived system) the distance between them is even greater.

Blindly assuming more sales automatically means better quality games is absurd. After the success of World of Warcraft, there were more PC gamers than their had been in a long time. Did that improve games? No - there was a glut of MMORPGs, all trying to cash in on the "fad". Face it, high sales are not always an indicator of quality - Okami, Ikaruga, and Eternal Darkness all sold poorly, despite being excellent titles.

subrosian

There were a lot of games like Okami and Katamari Damacy on the PS2, and that's because the PS2 was the only place where they had a chance of selling at all, because of all those people that had PS2s. While those games didn't sell that well, they still were only on the PS2because of how many PS2's were sold.

I'm not going to say the PC doesn't count, but you have to admit it's different. It's harder to gauge what will sell on the PC, because everyone has one, and few of them play PC games. Unlike consoles, where you can assume everyone that bought one plays games. So they'd have to judge by the sales of games, and when WoW sticks out like a sore thumb, of course they're going to try to copy it. And while that carries over a bit to consoles (with Halo spawning lots of shooters), it also has a positive effect in that when a dev wants to make an IP, they'll put it on the fast-selling console.

Anyway...I don't know if this is the thread to debate this in. Which reminds me, I havethis postin my blog, and I'm interested to hear what you have to say about it....

So after reading all the post since my last, I'm taking it that PC does in fact win the SW's, this Gen and every one after that. Good, I'll start the posting in SW's for the sheep and reference this thread. Thanks!Heil68

Everyone just accepts that PC wins, so they all vie for second place supremacy.

No one (in their right minds) tries to take it on.

[QUOTE="Heil68"]So after reading all the post since my last, I'm taking it that PC does in fact win the SW's, this Gen and every one after that. Good, I'll start the posting in SW's for the sheep and reference this thread. Thanks!Jandurin

Everyone just accepts that PC wins, so they all vie for second place supremacy.

No one (in their right minds) tries to take it on.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]So after reading all the post since my last, I'm taking it that PC does in fact win the SW's, this Gen and every one after that. Good, I'll start the posting in SW's for the sheep and reference this thread. Thanks!Heil68

Everyone just accepts that PC wins, so they all vie for second place supremacy.

No one (in their right minds) tries to take it on.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]So after reading all the post since my last, I'm taking it that PC does in fact win the SW's, this Gen and every one after that. Good, I'll start the posting in SW's for the sheep and reference this thread. Thanks!Jandurin

Everyone just accepts that PC wins, so they all vie for second place supremacy.

No one (in their right minds) tries to take it on.

Well I respect you post's and your views. I think you're one of the more educated people we have on here. I'm not being a smart ass either. I want to know who is entitled to the "winner". I take it PS2 lost last gen then too, right? I can show thread after thread of Sheep claiming victory with NO mention of the PC. I ask your help in correcting the errors of their ways. =)Heil68

What would be entertaining is if a console clearly became better than the PC. That would be wild.