The FALLOUT 3 Reality Thread

[QUOTE="jangojay"]Huh... I really don't think you read the OP. He said if you like halo/pokemon and the devs that made KZ/digimon got rights to those games(halo/pokemon) and made it like KZ/digimon would you appreciate that? Or would you be upset. Ninja-Hippo

I did read the OP. And i said that was the ONLY thing i thought was a little off. I know exactly what he was saying so why you explained that to me is a mystery. He deliberatly chose developers of poor or generic games in making his point, eg Killzone and Digimon, thus comparing them to Bethesda, who do not make poor and generic games but generally very good games indeed. What is so wrong about that?

And please, stop accusing everybody who says anything against this thread as having not read the OP. I know it's not just you but it's getting old. :?

Well one certainly could have grounds for calling Bethesda a developer of poor generic games when stacked up against BIS but the developers chosen wasn't really the poin't of what he was on about it was more the mutation of your established franchise by a different developer.

I thought he was more so comparing games that are directly rivaled each other....... since you know digimon was pokemon's rival and KZ was supposed to be halo's........I think you are over thinking that section of his post.

jangojay

I think he chose crappy games to make his point; "oh man, i dont want my favourite game ruined by the guys who made those crappy games." Just my interpretation. Why you took such exception to it is beyond me.

[QUOTE="clone01"]i just don't understand all the hate. if you dislike the direction of this one, the solution is easy. DON'T BUY IT. i liked the first 2, and i can't wait for this one.jaisimar_chelse

if you liked the first 2 then u shud be worried.

not really. i loved morrowind, but i liked oblivion, too.

[QUOTE="jangojay"]

I thought he was more so comparing games that are directly rivaled each other....... since you know digimon was pokemon's rival and KZ was supposed to be halo's........I think you are over thinking that section of his post.

Ninja-Hippo

I think he chose crappy games to make his point; "oh man, i dont want my favourite game ruined by the guys who made those crappy games." Just my interpretation. Why you took such exception to it is beyond me.

Easier terms then, how would you like if Epic acquired halo's rights and made it run at the speed and play like Unreal then try to pass it off to you has a true sequel.

The problem with Fallout 3 isn't the gameplay, or the story, or the design (at least not in and of themselves), but rather that Bethesda is (apparently) trying to convince longtime Fallout fans that Fallout 3 is a "true" Fallout game. And as a result they're essentially insulting our (ie Fallout fans) intelligence. Rather than coming out and saying "we're changing up the Fallout formula to make it more "accessible" but hey, give us the benefit of the doubt," Bethesda comes across as saying "it's a true Fallout game, only with more action, more explosions and more gore!" despite the fact they're ****ting all over the "c.lassic" Fallout canon and gameplay.

For example we can look at what Bioware has done with Mass Effect. A good games in its own rights but much like Fallout 3, Mass Effect was a radical departure from what we expected. The difference is that Bioware admitted they were going to do something different, and as a result we (or at least I) gave them the benefit of the doubt. I didn`t play Mass Effect expecting it to be Baldur`s Gate 3, but because of the way Fallout 3 is portrayed in the media I am going to play it expecting a "true" Fallout sequel.

PBSnipes

Their first mistake was calling it Fallout 3. It's like Ensemble releasing Halo Wars as "halo 4".

Easier terms then, how would you like if Epic acquired halo's rights and made it run at the speed and play like Unreal then try to pass it off to you has a true sequel. jangojay

Ok - again, i know exactly what he was saying. If you read my post, i'm a fallout fan myself and completely agreed, simply saying that the only thing i thought was a little off was comparing Bethesda to poor developers like the creators of Killzone and Digimon.

:roll:

[QUOTE="jangojay"]

Easier terms then, how would you like if Epic acquired halo's rights and made it run at the speed and play like Unreal then try to pass it off to you has a true sequel. Ninja-Hippo

Ok - again, i know exactly what he was saying. If you read my post, i'm a fallout fan myself and completely agreed, simply saying that the only thing i thought was a little off was comparing Bethesda to poor developers like the creators of Killzone and Digimon.

:roll:

Alrite then.

[QUOTE="jangojay"]

I thought he was more so comparing games that are directly rivaled each other....... since you know digimon was pokemon's rival and KZ was supposed to be halo's........I think you are over thinking that section of his post.

Ninja-Hippo

I think he chose crappy games to make his point; "oh man, i dont want my favourite game ruined by the guys who made those crappy games." Just my interpretation. Why you took such exception to it is beyond me.

In the area's that Fallout excelled Bethesda's last offering was lackluster, story, npc dialogue, choices and consequences, unique (player)characters, multiple ways to complete quests,

Wolf in sheeps clothing.

Sounds really like you're afraid of change.

Let's discuss whether the change has been for the better not after we've actually played it?

In the area's that Fallout excelled Bethesda's last offering was lackluster, story, npc dialogue, choices and consequences, unique (player)characters, multiple ways to complete quests,

pieatorium

That was exactly my point however; fans of Morrowind were disappointed by Oblivion because it departed from the game they enjoyed. It is unfair however to say that Oblivion was a BAD game. It was an excellent game. The score, the world which you explored, the combat; it was very enjoyable. Just not the specific sort of enjoyment Morrowind fans wanted.

That was my only point; i agree entirely that people will be disappointed by the departure, but i think it's unfair to say that that automatically makes the game bad. Rather, it simply failed to appeal to specific people, namely older fans.

Interplay is back in business, and they hired the original Fallout developers.

I can't wait for their Fallout MMO.

Ah, I remember why I left System Wars now.

Well, here's my take on it.

I'll buy it to see what they did right and then rant about it. expect my first blog to be about what they did right and wrong.

However.

I'm going to wait until the full game comes out before I call the game a failure to live up to its pedigree. Yeah, from what small glimpses we've seen, it looks like a huge departure from the original game ( and a pissing contest on the fallout continuity on which part they can desecrate most), but I expect any game not made by the original to be either a clone or a reimagining, and I'd rather have the latter than the former. The biggest thing that irks me s that this is only a small glimpse, and most of the game is unknown to us, and any number of the complaints could be adressed between now and launch. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Megaton or the nuclear sheild telephone booth ended up on the cutting room floor.

Interplay is back in business, and they hired the original Fallout developers.

I can't wait for their Fallout MMO.

Baranga

No offense, but you better start learning, because they've been talking about that since 2004 or earlier

I expect Duke Nukem Forever will have nothing on the dev cycle of the Fallout MMO - if that thing even get's released, it'll be in 2026.

I hear you...but we've seen much worse. games where people dodge gunfire by deflecting bullets with swords...people jumping off tall buildings and landing on their feet...people fighting through a game and never getting tired...etc. And how many bullets should you be able to take in a videogame before you die? :lol: Point is, almost all videogames have realisitic elements.

I'll be the first to say I haven't seen any Fallout 3 gameplay footage (don't know if any has been released), but it's Bethesda. They don't know how to fail. If they put it in, it must not be a huge deal.

And of course, if you OVERTHINK a game, you'll take the imagination and fun out of it.

Imagine if you went through Crysis...dismissing every element that is so obviously unrealistic...

Dreams-Visions

It just seems to be done, just for the heck of it - because it looks cool, rather than it fitting. I mean a car that only has its frame left, the seats, interior engine parts - all completely looted - makes sense, and makes a visual impression on you emphesising the nature of the world / universe - it adds to it, wheras exploding cars look pretty but just seem to contrast against what is supposed to be a desolate wasteland.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

Interplay is back in business, and they hired the original Fallout developers.

I can't wait for their Fallout MMO.

lafigueroa

No offense, but you better start learning, because they've been talking about that since 2004 or earlier

I expect Duke Nukem Forever will have nothing on the dev cycle of the Fallout MMO - if that thing even get's released, it'll be in 2026.

Actually they have to aquire minimum $30m funding and begin developement by april 2009 or return the rights to Bethesda.

Let me give two quotes that show the magnitude of the Fallout 3 catastrophe:

When we started this, we would go to great lengths to explains the differences from Oblivion," explains Fallout 3's executive producer, Todd Howard. "If you're talking to an enthusiast, there are so many differences, and we feel it's under-selling the game to say it's Oblivion with guns. But when we started talking to more consumer-oriented magazines, we'd have, like, two seconds...and we'd say, 'it's like post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns.' And they're like, 'Awesome!' To Joe Public, it's mainly first-peron, wide-open game and you get to do what you want. The game it's closest to is Oblivion. So now when someone asks, 'Is it Oblivion with guns?' my main answer is, 'in all the best ways.'

"It would be a lot less fun without that level of gore," adds Pagliarulo. "It's part of the visceral experience. You laugh your ass off when you see a mutant's leg get blown off. It never gets old - it hasn't yet."
(...)
And that's the final piece of gear you'll need to pack before your vacation at the end of the world: a wicked sense of humor. "It's so depressing that you have to see the humor in it," says Pagliarulo. "If not, you'll lose your mind or slit your wrists. Part of your brain refuses to admit it will ever happen, so you have to look at it and laugh. The dark humor of talking to an old lady who's really nice to you, and then blow her head off, put her head on a counter, and pretend to talk to her...there's a certain charm to that."

Now seriously, wtf.

Oh and check out this sample of AAA dialogue:

yay - another 'lets judge it before it's released' thread.

funny i don't recall anyone whining when the crap fallout games came out for xbox / ps2.

i'm just happy to get another fallout game - and i'm really happy Bethsoft is handling it... seeing black isle studios is no longer around :) i consider myself a hardcore fan of the series, play the old ones still - but i'm not ready to get on the hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way.

you want the good old Fallout? go play it. the rest of us will play Fallout 3 and probably enjoy the hell out of it.

Let me give two quotes that show the magnitude of the Fallout 3 catastrophe:

When we started this, we would go to great lengths to explains the differences from Oblivion," explains Fallout 3's executive producer, Todd Howard. "If you're talking to an enthusiast, there are so many differences, and we feel it's under-selling the game to say it's Oblivion with guns. But when we started talking to more consumer-oriented magazines, we'd have, like, two seconds...and we'd say, 'it's like post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns.' And they're like, 'Awesome!' To Joe Public, it's mainly first-peron, wide-open game and you get to do what you want. The game it's closest to is Oblivion. So now when someone asks, 'Is it Oblivion with guns?' my main answer is, 'in all the best ways.'

"It would be a lot less fun without that level of gore," adds Pagliarulo. "It's part of the visceral experience. You laugh your ass off when you see a mutant's leg get blown off. It never gets old - it hasn't yet."
(...)
And that's the final piece of gear you'll need to pack before your vacation at the end of the world: a wicked sense of humor. "It's so depressing that you have to see the humor in it," says Pagliarulo. "If not, you'll lose your mind or slit your wrists. Part of your brain refuses to admit it will ever happen, so you have to look at it and laugh. The dark humor of talking to an old lady who's really nice to you, and then blow her head off, put her head on a counter, and pretend to talk to her...there's a certain charm to that."

Now seriously, wtf.

Oh and check out this sample of AAA dialogue:

Baranga

yay - another 'lets judge it before it's released' thread.

funny i don't recall anyone whining when the crap fallout games came out for xbox / ps2.

i'm just happy to get another fallout game - and i'm really happy Bethsoft is handling it... seeing black isle studios is no longer around :) i consider myself a hardcore fan of the series, play the old ones still - but i'm not ready to get on the hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way.

you want the good old Fallout? go play it. the rest of us will play Fallout 3 and probably enjoy the hell out of it.

3picuri3

So it's fine to be optomistic about a game before it's release but not fine to be sceptical? I too think it will be at the least a fun game but that doesn't mean I shouldn't judge what I have seen and heard of the game so far.

If you don't want to play it, just skip the title. For others, it'll be a glimpse into a new world...for old players, it'll be a taste of what they've missed.Dreams-Visions

The point here is that it will be nothing like "what we've missed." How many times do I ave to repeat that.

It's simply not a Fallout game.

It's Bethesda. It'll work. Maybe it sounds stupid on paper...but...they'll make it work.Dreams-Visions

Uh, if it sounds stupid on paper, then it's probably gonna sound stupid in implementation.

I don't recall either of the previous games incorporating weapons as ridiculous as the "Suck-O-Tron" and the "Fatman." These were allegedly their attempts at reviving Fallout's previous darkly humorous atmosphere. Considering they don't even remotely resemble the weapon designs of the original games, what does that tell you about Bethesda's frame of reference?

I agree wholeheartedly.

And lol at the guy saying "who is gonna read all that", seriously pick up a book.

I did read the OP. And i said that was the ONLY thing i thought was a little off. I know exactly what he was saying so why you explained that to me is a mystery. He deliberatly chose developers of poor or generic games in making his point, eg Killzone and Digimon, thus comparing them to Bethesda, who do not make poor and generic games but generally very good games indeed. What is so wrong about that?

And please, stop accusing everybody who says anything against this thread as having not read the OP. I know it's not just you but it's getting old. :?

Ninja-Hippo

He was comparing the archetypes between the games. Not their respective quality.

if u think some one is actually going to read all this your insane..Nolan16

By the way I agree. I must admit that I am a bit annoyed by the whole "if you don't like it you are a whining baby" thingy, how about you folks do me a favor stop being whining babies about my disappointment. Stop criticizing a game I think is going to be amazing. :cry: If I don't like something I'm not going to sit down and say nothing just so your brains can feel at ease.

I'll just post this little rant I used in my latest blog entry, it is a quote of mine that I modified a bit...

I would rather have it targeted towards the fans of the original series. Developers always say that they are seeking a new audience whilst attempting to please the old one, but they typically fail in pleasing the old audience. The fact is we don't always get what we want in life and the game isn't being targeted primarily towards the old audience. I'm still going to buy this game; I will probably enjoy it in a way different to the way that I enjoyed Fallout 1 and 2 which is fine. However I would prefer to enjoy the game the same way I enjoyed the original games. I hope that I am wrong about the game not being "worthy (in my opinion)" of the Fallout name. I know that I am judging the game a bit before it is released, but that is what people do with games and I am saving my final judgment for the actual game. So I guess what I'm doing isn't that bad.

The thing that bugs me a bit is how people can't understand why others are upset. It's like you have been going to a diner for 7 years, they have been serving the same old family recipe cheeseburgers for years there and then all of a sudden some else buys the diner. Instead of remaining faithful to the old tradition they turn it into a sushi restaurant. When I walk into the diner I'm expecting my cheeseburger that I have been eating for years there now, but all I can get is some sushi. You're damn right I'm not going to be happy about it. The feeling is natural and I wouldn't label it as childish. The newcomers are going to laugh at the oldtimers when they are upset with the change, but they would be just as upset if they couldn't get their sushi because someone decided to make a burger joint in its place. So please don't act perplexed about the reaction towards these changes. It is perfectly understandable. Some people like the changes, some people don't, and some people don't care. There is no reason to single the fans of the old games out and act like they are a bunch of whining babies because they don't like some of these changes to the series. Sure some of them are saying some radical things that we could consider to be crossing the line, but don't apply that to every fan of the series who doesn't support some of the directions the game is going. People act like change is good all of the time, but in this case and plenty of other cases whether or not the changes are for the better is a matter of opinion. I support some of the changes to the series, not all of them and there is nothing wrong with that... so people, how about YOU stop whining about others stating their distaste for Fallout 3. People have just as much of a right to say that they don't like something as you have a right to say that you do like something.

This is reality: When Fallout 3 comes out, I'm going to remember this exaggeration of a thread, laugh, and then go buy Fallout 3 :) If it bothers you so much, go replay Fallout 1 and 2.

Since you compared this to "Halo 4 developed by Guerilla," I'm going to make this into an analogy of my own. Now, I'm a music man, I see the world a bit differently, so bare with me please. To me, what Bethesda is doing, is creating a medley. They are applying what they thought best in Fallout and are creating a beautiful blend of both Fallout and the things they do best. Bethesda is paying homage to the great series that is Fallout and thus creating themselves a game that may not be a mirror image, but is a masterpiece nonetheless.

Autumn is the season of change, so get ready for it, because sooner or later you will have to learn that change can be a wonderful thing. Fallout 3 - GOTY 2008.ShaneBeck

Actually I think it would be more akin to making a pop song, techno remix or rap song out of something clas sical to "broaden the audience". It could be a great song in it's own right but It's in a different sty le that many fans of the original song won't appreciate.

good post ............

but i disagree!!!

Well, the article has some clear and nice points in the beginning. I agree with them. Nevertheless, in the end it losses its direction and its purpose.

Moreover, saying that buying Fallout 3 is an act of evil seems very easy. But, it will only seem as a waste of time and words, when the fallout fans, who apparently hate Fallout 3, will be the first ones, maybe even TC, to buy the game when it comes out.

Actually I think it would be more akin to making a pop song, techno remix or rap song out of something clas sical to "broaden the audience". It could be a great song in it's own right but It's in a different sty le that many fans of the original song won't appreciate. pieatorium

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

yay - another 'lets judge it before it's released' thread.

funny i don't recall anyone whining when the crap fallout games came out for xbox / ps2.

i'm just happy to get another fallout game - and i'm really happy Bethsoft is handling it... seeing black isle studios is no longer around :) i consider myself a hardcore fan of the series, play the old ones still - but i'm not ready to get on the hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way.

you want the good old Fallout? go play it. the rest of us will play Fallout 3 and probably enjoy the hell out of it.

pieatorium

So it's fine to be optomistic about a game before it's release but not fine to be sceptical? I too think it will be at the least a fun game but that doesn't mean I shouldn't judge what I have seen and heard of the game so far.

hm. you wanna point out where i was being optimistic? i qualified it as 'probably', and said 'i'm not ready to get ont he hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way'.

neither are me saying i think it'll be fantastic - the whole point i'm trying to get across is 'lets wait until it released'.

the TC, and many many others in here are basing all this hate on cherry picked quotes from interviews etc. it's so pointless imo - nobody with that attitude would ever be happy with the final product.

how do you expect me to reply to a thread called the 'F3 reality thread'? lol. the reality is YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE HOW THE GAME WILL TURN OUT.

Well, the article has some clear and nice points in the beginning. I agree with them. Nevertheless, in the end it losses its direction and its purpose.

Moreover, saying that buying Fallout 3 is an act of evil seems very easy. But, it will only seem as a waste of time and words, when the fallout fans, who apparently hate Fallout 3, will be the first ones, maybe even TC, to buy the game when it comes out.

dk_2007

Curiosity killed the cat :P , yea it's going to be a day one purchase for me. I want to see what they do with the game and I want to see how it plays!

[QUOTE="pieatorium"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

yay - another 'lets judge it before it's released' thread.

funny i don't recall anyone whining when the crap fallout games came out for xbox / ps2.

i'm just happy to get another fallout game - and i'm really happy Bethsoft is handling it... seeing black isle studios is no longer around :) i consider myself a hardcore fan of the series, play the old ones still - but i'm not ready to get on the hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way.

you want the good old Fallout? go play it. the rest of us will play Fallout 3 and probably enjoy the hell out of it.

3picuri3

So it's fine to be optomistic about a game before it's release but not fine to be sceptical? I too think it will be at the least a fun game but that doesn't mean I shouldn't judge what I have seen and heard of the game so far.

hm. you wanna point out where i was being optimistic? i qualified it as 'probably', and said 'i'm not ready to get ont he hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way'.

neither are me saying i think it'll be fantastic - the whole point i'm trying to get across is 'lets wait until it released'.

the TC, and many many others in here are basing all this hate on cherry picked quotes from interviews etc. it's so pointless imo - nobody with that attitude would ever be happy with the final product.

Would you like an extended preview? I can provide a link to one.

Ok i am only informed well on this game by Robbie's blog posts. From what i've read, Yes it does look like the franchise is being murdered.

Says he with the Oblivion avatar: Oblivion didn't suck, to say that makes you stupider by 10 IQ points. The AI isn't perfectly reactable, its a sandbox RPG I don't think any studio in the world could live up to the "every NPC has a life of their own" BS that was intended for noobs. RPGs require A BIT of your own imagination as a gamer. Bethseda make it a bit easier with animations and story etc, but it remains that you can not expect to life-like AI in any RPG of this nature purely for practical reasons. If that really matters to you pick up cod4 and just watch people run around, or better yet go outside and fraternise with othe NPCs- i mean people- without using that thing in your head that according to philosophers and scientists alike seperates us from the apes (concept of imagined thought etc).

Fallout 3 is just a name, Fallout actually died a decade ago (sorry about thtat btw it was a shame), games are different now, Fallout is still there, this is a new game, a new century, and who knows you might even like it.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="pieatorium"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

yay - another 'lets judge it before it's released' thread.

funny i don't recall anyone whining when the crap fallout games came out for xbox / ps2.

i'm just happy to get another fallout game - and i'm really happy Bethsoft is handling it... seeing black isle studios is no longer around :) i consider myself a hardcore fan of the series, play the old ones still - but i'm not ready to get on the hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way.

you want the good old Fallout? go play it. the rest of us will play Fallout 3 and probably enjoy the hell out of it.

jangojay

So it's fine to be optomistic about a game before it's release but not fine to be sceptical? I too think it will be at the least a fun game but that doesn't mean I shouldn't judge what I have seen and heard of the game so far.

hm. you wanna point out where i was being optimistic? i qualified it as 'probably', and said 'i'm not ready to get ont he hate bandwagon thinking this game won't be excellent in every way'.

neither are me saying i think it'll be fantastic - the whole point i'm trying to get across is 'lets wait until it released'.

the TC, and many many others in here are basing all this hate on cherry picked quotes from interviews etc. it's so pointless imo - nobody with that attitude would ever be happy with the final product.

Would you like an extended preview? I can provide a link to one.

i've been following development tyvm :) active in the beth forums, i've beta tested some of their products in the past :) i'm cautiously optimistic. I know it'll be better than the last 2 fallout games we got - and i think beth is perfectly capable of capturing the nuances of the series.

i have little respect for people that hate games prior to release based on expectations related to originals that came out 10+ years ago. too many people expect it to remain isometric, etc. like most hardcore fanboys many people just have absolutely unrealistic expectations and wouldn't be happy with anything. it's a good thing these players only represent a minute fraction of the actual fanbase, or we'd have games that never changed apart from plot. you want that - it's called making a mod based on the original game. if you have so much passion for it - why not apply that to learning to code and alter the base game to your liking like morrowind / oblivion / etc fans do.

at the end of the day everyone is lucky were getting another fallout game. and you're lucky some crap dev isn't cranking out another BOS lump of coal.

[QUOTE="pieatorium"] Actually I think it would be more akin to making a pop song, techno remix or rap song out of something clas sical to "broaden the audience". It could be a great song in it's own right but It's in a different sty le that many fans of the original song won't appreciate. ShaneBeck

It's ironic you patronize those forms of music because the deter from what you like yet when we do you look down on us.. nice

[QUOTE="pieatorium"] Actually I think it would be more akin to making a pop song, techno remix or rap song out of something clas sical to "broaden the audience". It could be a great song in it's own right but It's in a different sty le that many fans of the original song won't appreciate. ShaneBeck

Wow and you're the one telling fallout fans to lighten up

My advice: wait.

Metroid Prime looked very bad on paper, you know. The fans of the franchise hated the fact that it was going to be 3D, and now it's one of the best games of all time.

What I have seen so far confirms that Fallout 3 seems to have the same feel and atmosphere as the previous Fallout games, and that's what matters to me the most.

Yes some corners have been cut: You only get one NPC companion besides dogmeat and there's less skills to be learnt. Doesn't mean that bethesda is automatically raping the game. I think it would be very annoying if there would be 5 people following you all the time since it's from the first perspective.

Also, I think some of the skills were made a bit stupidly in the original games. I mean, why do you need to have separate skills for small guns and energy weapons if they're all pistols and rifles? And doctor and the medic skill can be easily integrated into one skill.

And it takes 5 nukes to kill a mutant shielded by a car door? The fallout games were never very realistic. You could shoot multple shots into somebody's eye with a pistol until he dies for example.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"][QUOTE="Pariah_001"]

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]I checked out your gamercard and its full of games that are more casual than Fallout 3. Just sayin'. ;)subrosian

I didn't see him mention the word "casual." I think he's localizing his context in regards to Bethesda's change of Fallout.

"game design that insults the intelligence of players and patronizes them."

Sounds like a lot of those games I see in the gamercard, but hey, whatever! :) Actually, a lot of those games game design is far more linear and insults the intelligence of the player and patronizes them more than a game like Fallout 3. As much as some would love to believe, Fallout 3 is not a casual game. It's just not. It'll sell a lot, but it'll never sell to that casual demographic. Soccar moms and children will continue to enjoy Wii Fit.

1. Stop attacking the messenger rather than their message. It's a poor debate tactic at best.

2. That demographic (soccer moms and little girls) are called "Non-Traditional Gamers" not "casuals". The gamers who have never heard of Fallout can easily be ****fied as casual gamers.

Get off your high horse Subrosian, just because some gamers never really heard of the game Fallout doesn't make them casual gamers. Not everyone played PC RPG games back then, I know when Fallout came out I was too busy playing Age of Empires to really give a damn about it. I only played a couple games back then and wasn't too huge of a PC gamer because I was 11-12 years old. Just because you are older then most and have played games that gamers today would not look back to doesn't make you are hardcore gamer more then people who buy and play a lot of games today.

I never really heard of the Fallout name till a year or two ago and I started playing it because I was interested in it. Did that make me casual up until the point where I first heard of the Fallout game?

To everyone else, I really sick and tired of everyone complaining about this game. Your complaining isn't going to do anything, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with it. If it upsets you so much then don't read any articles about it, just blow it off. It seems like you want the game to fail so you can sit back in your computer chair smiling because you feel like you beat something. Either play the game and enjoy it or don't, you all are just like any other fanboy out there and it is getting on many people's nerves.

It's ironic you patronize those forms of music because the deter from what you like yet when we do you look down on us.. nice jangojay

How can you complain about a game you have not played and is not finished yet?, seriously...

[QUOTE="jangojay"]It's ironic you patronize those forms of music because the deter from what you like yet when we do you look down on us.. nice ShaneBeck

Please stop, you have no idea what you are talking about.

How can you complain about a game you have not played and is not finished yet?, seriously...

Nick-N4ck

it's just the nature of the beast. there are some fanboys of certain games that just wouldn't be happy with anything so they feel the need to pour their emotions into a long long post on why the game will suck, et al. i think every major series has a handful of them :) the smallest group with the loudest voice is how i like to think of them. the vocal minority.

even if black isle studios was reformed with all the original members and the game followed the old engine ****and look they still would find something to complain about.

How can you complain about a game you have not played and is not finished yet?, seriously...

Nick-N4ck

thats not the point they are taking them name and changing the game. They should not use the name fallout III it should be Fallout: Beam me up Scotty, or Fallout:BMUS.

They should just leave it alone. They did the same thing with ES. Except they killed there own series by Making ES:arena improving on it and making ES:daggerfall then dumbing many elements down and making ES:morrwind then lastly taking the rpg out of rpg in Oblivion with Level scaling. Now they are dumbing down some elses series its just wrong and only so they can make a pretty penney.

If POPULAR wrpg's become as deep as they where in the 90's only then will they make a game that could be aprecianted by the onringal fans.

Wow and you're the one telling fallout fans to lighten uppieatorium

[QUOTE="pieatorium"] Wow and you're the one telling fallout fans to lighten upShaneBeck

I would agree if this was true

Please stop, you have no idea what you are talking aboutNick-N4ck