The FALLOUT 3 Reality Thread

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

[QUOTE="Nick-N4ck"]

How can you complain about a game you have not played and is not finished yet?, seriously...

the1stfandb

thats not the point they are taking them name and changing the game. They should not use the name fallout III it should be Fallout: Beam me up Scotty, or Fallout:BMUS.

They should just leave it alone. They did the same thing with ES. Except they killed there own series by Making ES:arena improving on it and making ES:daggerfall then dumbing many elements down and making ES:morrwind then lastly taking the rpg out of rpg in Oblivion with Level scaling. Now they are dumbing down some elses series its just wrong and only so they can make a pretty penney.

If POPULAR wrpg's become as deep as they where in the 90's only then will they make a game that could be aprecianted by the onringal fans.

give. me. a. break.

it's time some of you go back and play the wrpgs of the 90s so you can remember how shallow and non-complicated they were. they were fun, don't get me wrong. but they were NOT more complicated than modern wrpgs - nothing is being dumbed down. i know this because i still play many of them - baldurs gate, planescape, fallout, es originals, m&m, eye of the beholder, etc.

in oblivion we lost some cheap spell and potion making abilities, and the ability to fly / float endlessly with the right enchanted weapon.

and if you think that daggerfall was more complicated than morrowind i really don't know what to say - other than the fact that you're the first person i've ever heard say that. have you played it? you couldn't even finish daggerfall until about a year after it shipped because it shipped with a bug that made it impossible to finish a key plot quests.. so many features were broken out of box.. so i guess if by complicated you mean 'broken and confusing' then hell yah, you're totally right. daggerfall was wicked compicated :P

i think many of us just put games we used to love on pedestals without even revisiting them to 'correct' our memory :P trust me, in many cases you will be disappointed by the gap between your memory of the game and the actual reality of it... but it's better to have an accurate perspective then to go around saying things are getting dumber and dumber and teh casuals are ruining teh genre.

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

cakeorrdeath

i've played all the originals and i am optimistic that fallout 3 will live up to it's name.

and it does have quite a bit in common apart from the complete change in visual presentation... many of the issues hardcore fans have with it are related to aspects that bethesda won't release details on but promise tie in to canon.. i.e. mutants, the radio, et al.

i think hardcore fans of any series are just more ready to hate on new iterations without giving them a chance. i know i did it with Shadowrun on 360.... but we're not getting Fallout 3: Squad Shooter, we're getting an rpg made by a very capable studio that by all accounts appears to be very committed to bringing an authentic fallout experience to the masses.

anyways. /rant. just wanted to point out there are many hardcore fans like myself and my mates that are eagerly anticipating fallout 3s release while we play through the originals again.

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

3picuri3

i've played all the originals and i am optimistic that fallout 3 will live up to it's name.

and it does have quite a bit in common apart from the complete change in visual presentation... many of the issues hardcore fans have with it are related to aspects that bethesda won't release details on but promise tie in to canon.. i.e. mutants, the radio, et al.

i think hardcore fans of any series are just more ready to hate on new iterations without giving them a chance. i know i did it with Shadowrun on 360.... but we're not getting Fallout 3: Squad Shooter, we're getting an rpg made by a very capable studio that by all accounts appears to be very committed to bringing an authentic fallout experience to the masses.

anyways. /rant. just wanted to point out there are many hardcore fans like myself and my mates that are eagerly anticipating fallout 3s release while we play through the originals again.

I also played the originals and welcome the third with an open mind. But I do see the issues. The focus seems to be quite different from the previous fallouts where freedom to play as and how you wanted were a main attraction. This seems a much more structured affair. I also hate it when the world scales with you.

And yes hardcore fans often hate deversification of there favorite games. Many res evil fans hated (some still do) the direction resident evil 4 took.

Ah, I remember why I left System Wars now.

Well, here's my take on it.

I'll buy it to see what they did right and then rant about it. expect my first blog to be about what they did right and wrong.

However.

I'm going to wait until the full game comes out before I call the game a failure to live up to its pedigree. Yeah, from what small glimpses we've seen, it looks like a huge departure from the original game ( and a pissing contest on the fallout continuity on which part they can desecrate most), but I expect any game not made by the original to be either a clone or a reimagining, and I'd rather have the latter than the former. The biggest thing that irks me s that this is only a small glimpse, and most of the game is unknown to us, and any number of the complaints could be adressed between now and launch. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Megaton or the nuclear sheild telephone booth ended up on the cutting room floor.

lafigueroa

I find it both amusing and telling that while Fallout fans can list a whole litany of reasons as to why they feel Fallout 3 is a disservice to the franchise, including ones having to do with Bethesda themselves as an overall developmental studio throughout the years, the Bethesda apologists can't seem to say anything except "oh just wait and see, it could be good."

They've failed to make any real arguments whatsoever and have failed to even attempt to counter any of the points we've been making in this thread and the Fallout 3 hype thread. We've even tried to simplify it by offering analogies as to how this would similarly affect other big franchises, and how people would understandably complain about it, and yet it still falls of deaf ears.

And on top of it, we still get comments like "now I know why I left System Wars", as a moronic response to an OP that was imbued with logic.

I understand perfectly well. I think people are just hiding behind the "fallout fan" label in hopes it will shield them. Because, speaking as a fallout Afan myself....someone who has beaten the previous fallout games more than once and STIL plays them...this hatred and whining is ridiculous. It's BS and completely illogical And let's be perfectly honest here. The company who started fallout collapsed. THey're done. And I fail to see how someone calling themsleves a "fan" of something would rather see it dead and gone, and dwell in nostalgia, than to see a GOOD company try to bring it back. I look forward to Fallout 3 BECAUSE I am a Fallout fan. I guess that is the difference between a fan and a fanboy. One is willing to keep an open mind.ZIMdoom

All I hear is a Bunch of Whining. How do you know the game will be crap if you havent played it yet. Play it then pass your judgement. black_awpN1

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

cakeorrdeath

i've played all the originals and i am optimistic that fallout 3 will live up to it's name.

and it does have quite a bit in common apart from the complete change in visual presentation... many of the issues hardcore fans have with it are related to aspects that bethesda won't release details on but promise tie in to canon.. i.e. mutants, the radio, et al.

i think hardcore fans of any series are just more ready to hate on new iterations without giving them a chance. i know i did it with Shadowrun on 360.... but we're not getting Fallout 3: Squad Shooter, we're getting an rpg made by a very capable studio that by all accounts appears to be very committed to bringing an authentic fallout experience to the masses.

anyways. /rant. just wanted to point out there are many hardcore fans like myself and my mates that are eagerly anticipating fallout 3s release while we play through the originals again.

I also played the originals and welcome the third with an open mind. But I do see the issues. The focus seems to be quite different from the previous fallouts where freedom to play as and how you wanted were a main attraction. This seems a much more structured affair. I also hate it when the world scales with you.

And yes hardcore fans often hate deversification of there favorite games. Many res evil fans hated (some still do) the direction resident evil 4 took.

well they're saying fallout 3 will have 200 endings, which leads me to think there is some freedom in terms of plot progression and movement. i seriously hope it isn't really restricted with just 200 different possible outcomes based on dialogue, etc. hopefully it isn't insanely structured...

but on the flip side if we're getting a much more detailed world with slightly more structure / rididity i'll be happy. my main concern is that is captures the feel and ****of the originals - that more than anything else. if i feel like im playing oblivion in some post-apocalyptic setting i will be disappointed.

and for enemy scaling - i hope they give the option to disable it. this was one of the most popular oblivion mods, and i hope they recognize that many many people don't appreciate a scaled world.

[QUOTE="black_awpN1"]All I hear is a Bunch of Whining. How do you know the game will be crap if you havent played it yet. Play it then pass your judgement. Vandalvideo

Wasnt Brotherhood of Steel pretty crappy?

[QUOTE="ShaneBeck"][QUOTE="jangojay"]It's ironic you patronize those forms of music because the deter from what you like yet when we do you look down on us.. nice PBSnipes

Amen.

I'm on my lunchbreak, I've sadly come back to see some people have missed the point. What I'm doing here is explaining why one group of gamers (clas sic Fallout fans) are upset. I have an ancedote (a story) in my OP that helps gamers who haven't had this happen to a series they love yet understand the divide. Some people haven't thought of it that way yet, and that's the point - as Cake said, there's a divide between people who played (and enjoyed) Fallout in the old days, and those who haven't.

The Metroid Prime / Resident Evil examples are ill-fitting - those are moves by the studios that created (and own) the series, by the same individuals who came up with the regular idea. Yes I can say "I don't like the direction of ________" but it's not quite the same thing as a new studio coming in, making a game that's quite different, and then claiming they're making the honest-to-hoyle sequel.

That doesn't mean Fallout 3 is a bad game - anyone claiming I've said that, or that anyone is saying that needs to re-read the OP, because they've missed the point.

-

Now, this music thing has NOTHING to do with my post. That has more to do with how WRPG fans will hate on JRPGS, or vice versa - mostly because they don't understand the other sty1e of game. That's not the case here - though everytime I hear "I hate rap and hip-hop, it's dumb music!" out of someone's mouth, I can't help but picture a teenaged suburbanite convinced that a high school education has provided a thorough grounding in the "right way of thinking". That's not to say all people who dislike one genre or another fit a stereotype - I simply don't picture downright *hatred* of any and all songs solely because they are in a certain genre to be the mark of an open-minded, worldy individual.

I have an open mind on Fallout 3 - I'm following it, I'm giving Bethesda a chance - but my problem ultimately comes down to the decision that they made to have a goal - an action plan - of remaking Fallout 1 / Fallout 2 - in the form of a sequel, and then falling so horribly short of the mark. Not because Fallout 3 is a bad game - but because it's simply so radically different from Fallout.

-
"But it could revitalize Fallout!"

No - because what it would "revitalize" is the name alone - not the things that made Fallout what it is - and that's just the point - fans are looking for that game that provides the play experiences they remember from the old days - they're not hating on a game because it's new - they're simply upset to be promised that "Good Old Fallout" experience (bacon & eggs) and then handed a Spanish Omlette. Nothing wrong with Spanish Omlette - but it's not the bacon & eggs they ordered.

[QUOTE="black_awpN1"]All I hear is a Bunch of Whining. How do you know the game will be crap if you havent played it yet. Play it then pass your judgement. Vandalvideo

fallout brotherhood of steel for the xbox was a crappy fallout game.

with that as your benchmark I SERIOUSLY fail to see how this will be anything close to a 'crappy' fallout game.

[QUOTE="pieatorium"] Wow and you're the one telling fallout fans to lighten upShaneBeck

Some Techno, Pop and Rap isn't garbage either and how do you know it's good? have you played the final product?

Bethesda isn't garbage to you maybe but maybe to other people they are or at least in the area's that made fallout what it is.

You aren't tyring to open anyones eyes to anything you are asking us to blindly accept bethesda's vision because "change can be a wonderful thing, well it can also be horrible.

There is more than enough information out there to show that the game will probably be a dumbed down action rpg (and possibly light on the RP if Oblivion is anything to go by ) and we know for a fact that much of the backstory has been bastardised.

Can we get Midway to make the next Street Fighter?Blackbond

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

cakeorrdeath

*waggles finger*

I must return to work! I shall get to this debate with you later. Oh yes... there will be cake... and if we run out of that? Chicken.

Anyway you're lucky I'm church of England, or I'd have at this issue of expectations right now sir. :P

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="black_awpN1"]All I hear is a Bunch of Whining. How do you know the game will be crap if you havent played it yet. Play it then pass your judgement. 3picuri3

fallout brotherhood of steel for the xbox was a crappy fallout game.

with that as your benchmark I SERIOUSLY fail to see how this will be anything close to a 'crappy' fallout game.

never played the orignal fallouts so i have no connection to the series, therefore i am not upset that the game has been gimped.

if i turn out enjoying fallout 3 and some fanboy cant accept that, well thats his problem.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="black_awpN1"]All I hear is a Bunch of Whining. How do you know the game will be crap if you havent played it yet. Play it then pass your judgement. Vandalvideo

fallout brotherhood of steel for the xbox was a crappy fallout game.

with that as your benchmark I SERIOUSLY fail to see how this will be anything close to a 'crappy' fallout game.

exactly my point. and why I think Fallout 3 will not be 'crappy'.

Ok Fallout 3 lovers...

...where do you go from here?

Are you going to embrace the new vision?

Are you going to sulk and pray for times past that will not come?

I think people can understand the frustration at this point...but where do you go from here? Because no amount of letters, e-mails or peitions will stop Bethesda from releasing what they have created at this point. They've spent too much time and worked too hard.

Will you embrace what will most likely be a AAA game, or will you remain forever bitter because it isn't enough Fallout.

never played the orignal fallouts so i have no connection to the series, therefore i am not upset that the game has been gimped.

if i turn out enjoying fallout 3 and some fanboy cant accept that, well thats his problem.

6matt6

i think the idea that it has been gimped it still open to question imho. wait until we can put it through the paces, then we'll pass judgement on how gimped it is.

exactly my point. and why I think Fallout 3 will not be 'crappy'. 3picuri3

[QUOTE="lafigueroa"]

Ah, I remember why I left System Wars now.

Well, here's my take on it.

I'll buy it to see what they did right and then rant about it. expect my first blog to be about what they did right and wrong.

However.

I'm going to wait until the full game comes out before I call the game a failure to live up to its pedigree. Yeah, from what small glimpses we've seen, it looks like a huge departure from the original game ( and a pissing contest on the fallout continuity on which part they can desecrate most), but I expect any game not made by the original to be either a clone or a reimagining, and I'd rather have the latter than the former. The biggest thing that irks me s that this is only a small glimpse, and most of the game is unknown to us, and any number of the complaints could be adressed between now and launch. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Megaton or the nuclear sheild telephone booth ended up on the cutting room floor.

Zeliard9

I find it both amusing and telling that while Fallout fans can list a whole litany of reasons as to why they feel Fallout 3 is a disservice to the franchise, including ones having to do with Bethesda themselves as an overall developmental studio throughout the years, the Bethesda apologists can't seem to say anything except "oh just wait and see, it could be good."

They've failed to make any real arguments whatsoever and have failed to even attempt to counter any of the points we've been making in this thread and the Fallout 3 hype thread. We've even tried to simplify it by offering analogies as to how this would similarly affect other big franchises, and how people would understandably complain about it, and yet it still falls of deaf ears.

And on top of it, we still get comments like "now I know why I left System Wars", as a moronic response to an OP that was imbued with logic.

When in the million year history of humankind did you get the impression that I was a Bethesda apologist?

I have no expectation of it living up to the series created by Black Isle. That said, I'm still interested in seeing what they , as selfproclaimed Fallout fans, make in Fallout 3, if only to comment on it (That's where the "reimagining" part comes in).

In all honesty, I see Fallout 3 as a $50 to $60 fanfic with some marketing behind it.

Ok Fallout 3 lovers...

...where do you go from here?

Are you going to embrace the new vision?

Are you going to sulk and pray for times past that will not come?

I think people can understand the frustration at this point...but where do you go from here? Because no amount of letters, e-mails or peitions will stop Bethesda from releasing what they have created at this point. They've spent too much time and worked too hard.

Will you embrace what will most likely be a AAA game, or will you remain forever bitter because it isn't enough Fallout.

Dreams-Visions

Both I guess. It's just another one of the many disappointments this gen for me if it doesn't live up to be a true fallout game. Doesn't mean it would be a bad game..

Some Techno, Pop and Rap isn't garbage either and how do you know it's good? have you played the final product?

Bethesda isn't garbage to you maybe but maybe to other people they are or at least in the area's that made fallout what it is.

You aren't tyring to open anyones eyes to anything you are asking us to blindly accept bethesda's vision because "change can be a wonderful thing, well it can also be horrible.

There is more than enough information out there to show that the game will probably be a dumbed down action rpg (and possibly light on the RP if Oblivion is anything to go by ) and we know for a fact that much of the backstory has been bastardised.

pieatorium

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]exactly my point. and why I think Fallout 3 will not be 'crappy'. Vandalvideo

um - do you have any valid reason for assuming thats what i think? i was agreeing that Fallout:BOS strayed from canon and was crappy and terrible. and using that as your benchmark for a crappy fallout game fallout 3 has little to no chance of being 'crappy'.

i don't think fallout 3 seriously strays from canon - as many of the aspects people bring up to argue that are aspect that Beth promises tie in to canon but they won't say how because they don't want to release spoilers before the game is out.

even if fallout 3 breaks canon several times it still won't come close to being the crappy game BOS was,

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

cakeorrdeath

We're not expecting them to care like we do, that would be unrealistic. We're simply expecting them to understand why we care. Even if you don't agree, I don't see how you don't get where we're coming from. It seems so obvious and clear to me. It's a different company taking the reins from a once-great franchise and compromising several aspects of it in favor of widening the audience, a company who's biggest weaknesses are identical to the franchise's biggest strengths (this is probably the single biggest point of contention for me).

What makes it worse is that it's a franchise like Fallout, in particular, one which very effectively combines an eclectic mix of dark humor, obscure pop culture references, and poignant satire, and wraps it all up in a beautifully realized post-apocalyptic setting. These are all things that are by their very nature non-mainstream, things you can't compromise in the least because they're such a core part of the game (this was one reason that even Fallout 2 was decried by some Fallout fans).

Those are also all things that other games and companies are hard-pressed to pull off well, much less a company like Bethesda who's always shown weakness in the entire writing aspect of video games (most egregiously in Oblivion). It's like if you compared GTA and Saints Row. Rockstar clearly "gets it", Volition clearly does not. Have you seen those recent attempts at parody and wit by Volition in Saints Row 2 ads, in an attempt to rip off GTA4's ads? Seriously painful.

People complain about Electronic Arts all the time, because they very transparently care more about the big dollar than the overall quality of their games, and whether or not it stays true to its original vision (if applicable). I can only imagine the reaction if EA took over MGS and created an MGS5 with mainstream themes and ideas, and simpified gameplay, and then made it a multi-plat.

Analogies like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime don't work, as those were created by the same teams that made the previous games in the series, and both kept the same overall atmosphere, storytelling and vibe of the franchise intact (and improved on them in some occasions). They were natural evolutions of the franchise, decided on by the same people the franchise was created by.

Everything so far from the Fallout 3 end is indicating that Bethesda isn't trying to respect the original vision and the original themes. Like Sub said, Bethesda isn't a bad studio and they're not trying to make a bad game, but they're also not trying to make a Fallout game, despite calling it "Fallout 3". This is clear at this point.

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

We're not expecting them to care like we do, that would be unrealistic. We're simply expecting them to understand why we care. Even if you don't agree, I don't see how you don't get where we're coming from. It seems so obvious and clear to me. It's a different company taking the reins from a once-great franchise and compromising several aspects of it in favor of widening the audience, a company who's biggest weaknesses are identical to the franchise's biggest strengths (this is probably the single biggest point of contention for me).

What makes it worse is that it's a franchise like Fallout, in particular, one which very effectively combines an eclectic mix of dark humor, obscure pop culture references, and poignant satire, and wraps it all up in a beautifully realized post-apocalyptic setting. These are all things that are by their very nature non-mainstream, things you can't compromise in the least because they're such a core part of the game (this was one reason that even Fallout 2 was decried by some Fallout fans).

Those are also all things that other games and companies are hard-pressed to pull off well, much less a company like Bethesda who's always shown weakness in the entire writing aspect of video games (most egregiously in Oblivion). It's like if you compared GTA and Saints Row. Rockstar clearly "gets it", Volition clearly does not. Have you seen those recent attempts at parody and wit by Volition in Saints Row 2 ads, in an attempt to rip off GTA4's ads? Seriously painful.

People complain about Electronic Arts all the time, because they very transparently care more about the big dollar than the overall quality of their games, and whether or not it stays true to its original vision (if applicable). I can only imagine the reaction if EA took over MGS and created an MGS5 with mainstream themes and ideas, and simpified gameplay, and then made it a multi-plat.

Analogies like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime don't work, as those were created by the same teams that made the previous games in the series, and both kept the same overall atmosphere, storytelling and vibe of the franchise intact (and improved on them in some occasions). They were natural evolutions of the franchise, decided on by the same people the franchise was created by.

Everything so far from the Fallout 3 end is indicating that Bethesda isn't trying to respect the original vision and the original themes. Like Sub said, Bethesda isn't a bad studio and they're not trying to make a bad game, but they're also not trying to make a Fallout game, despite calling it "Fallout 3". This is clear at this point.

Zeliard9

Res Evil 4 may have still been made by Capcom but it was not made by the same team. And Res Evil 4 is absolutely nothing like the previous res evils. It is much more action orientated.

I never said people would be unable to understand why you are upset. Merely that they wouldn't care. I did play and love the old fallout games and do see where you are coming from, I merely see the other-side two. A bunch of people looking forward to what looks like another great bethesda game with an interesting setting. Many of who are tired and bored of the constant outcry of a pretty small minority of hard-core fans. Is it surprising that sympathy is waning?

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]

There are two clear lines of thought on this, and it seems to be largely devided by who did and didn't play the original fallouts.

Whilst I can agree Fallout 3 really doesn't share too much in common with the classic originals I think it is unrealistic to expect people who never played the first two fallouts to care.

Zeliard9

We're not expecting them to care like we do, that would be unrealistic. We're simply expecting them to understand why we care. Even if you don't agree, I don't see how you don't get where we're coming from. It seems so obvious and clear to me. It's a different company taking the reins from a once-great franchise and compromising several aspects of it in favor of widening the audience, a company who's biggest weaknesses are identical to the franchise's biggest strengths (this is probably the single biggest point of contention for me).

What makes it worse is that it's a franchise like Fallout, in particular, one which very effectively combines an eclectic mix of dark humor, obscure pop culture references, and poignant satire, and wraps it all up in a beautifully realized post-apocalyptic setting. These are all things that are by their very nature non-mainstream, things you can't compromise in the least because they're such a core part of the game (this was one reason that even Fallout 2 was decried by some Fallout fans).

Those are also all things that other games and companies are hard-pressed to pull off well, much less a company like Bethesda who's always shown weakness in the entire writing aspect of video games (most egregiously in Oblivion). It's like if you compared GTA and Saints Row. Rockstar clearly "gets it", Volition clearly does not. Have you seen those recent attempts at parody and wit by Volition in Saints Row 2 ads, in an attempt to rip off GTA4's ads? Seriously painful.

People complain about Electronic Arts all the time, because they very transparently care more about the big dollar than the overall quality of their games, and whether or not it stays true to its original vision (if applicable). I can only imagine the reaction if EA took over MGS and created an MGS5 with mainstream themes and ideas, and simpified gameplay, and then made it a multi-plat.

Analogies like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime don't work, as those were created by the same teams that made the previous games in the series, and both kept the same overall atmosphere, storytelling and vibe of the franchise intact (and improved on them in some occasions). They were natural evolutions of the franchise, decided on by the same people the franchise was created by.

Everything so far from the Fallout 3 end is indicating that Bethesda isn't trying to respect the original vision and the original themes. Like Sub said, Bethesda isn't a bad studio and they're not trying to make a bad game, but they're also not trying to make a Fallout game, despite calling it "Fallout 3". This is clear at this point.

...and after people "understand", what's the plan? to continue whining about things that cannot change? seems like a waste of you all's collective energy to spend so much time on what a game ISN'T instead of what it is and will be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like people are seeking permission to cry every time a new set of photos is released. To whine when the videos come out. To moan when the trailers come out.

Pardon, but we don't want our board cluttered with such things. In moving forward, people can embrace what will be a AAA game or continue to drive themselves into anger. Since the later won't make anything better by your standards, it seems like the former is the only logical approach. Or ignoring the game altogether.

But I don't think people will want to see the belly-aching posts and threads after this thread then they did before. There's nothing that will change it.

Take the lemons...and learn to make lemonade.

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

HummaKavula

you forgot to add, "...in my opinion." becaues all the critical acclaim from reviewers, magazines and gamers adamantly disagree with you.

It wasn't your cup of coffe, fine. But don't suppose to make it a fact that the game sucked. Your opinion is not fact. Don't present it as such.

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

HummaKavula

i love people that try to bring up the dark humour card and how beth has it terribly wrong.

please please please don't make me dig up the terrible one-liners and poor writing from the original fallout series. both 1 and 2 were full of bad bad bad jokes, far worse than the old lady example you brought up. it had it's moments and gems, don't get me wrong, but it was also full of crass shamelessly poor writing and jokes as well.

Remember, Interplay killed Fallout, not Bethesda...

um - do you have any valid reason for assuming thats what i think? i was agreeing that Fallout:BOS strayed from canon and was crappy and terrible. and using that as your benchmark for a crappy fallout game fallout 3 has little to no chance of being 'crappy'. i don't think fallout 3 seriously strays from canon - as many of the aspects people bring up to argue that are aspect that Beth promises tie in to canon but they won't say how because they don't want to release spoilers before the game is out. even if fallout 3 breaks canon several times it still won't come close to being the crappy game BOS was, 3picuri3

Remember, Interplay killed Fallout, not Bethesda...

BioShockOwnz

[QUOTE="HummaKavula"]

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

Dreams-Visions

you forgot to add, "...in my opinion." becaues all the critical acclaim from reviewers, magazines and gamers adamantly disagree with you.

It wasn't your cup of coffe, fine. But don't suppose to make it a fact that the game sucked. Your opinion is not fact. Don't present it as such.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Remember, Interplay killed Fallout, not Bethesda...

foxhound_fox

Doubtful. I don't see Fallout 3 getting below 8.5's across the board, but we'll see. Also, if I play it and dislike it, then I'll be honest about it. I didn't like Oblivion at all. I think Fallout 3 looks sexy delicious, though. MMM, it's the Fallout I've always wanted. MMM, yes! :D How much do you guys love me now....? :)

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="HummaKavula"]

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

SecretPolice

you forgot to add, "...in my opinion." becaues all the critical acclaim from reviewers, magazines and gamers adamantly disagree with you.

It wasn't your cup of coffe, fine. But don't suppose to make it a fact that the game sucked. Your opinion is not fact. Don't present it as such.

Doesn't stop it from being a overly simplified game compared to Morrowind.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]um - do you have any valid reason for assuming thats what i think? i was agreeing that Fallout:BOS strayed from canon and was crappy and terrible. and using that as your benchmark for a crappy fallout game fallout 3 has little to no chance of being 'crappy'. i don't think fallout 3 seriously strays from canon - as many of the aspects people bring up to argue that are aspect that Beth promises tie in to canon but they won't say how because they don't want to release spoilers before the game is out. even if fallout 3 breaks canon several times it still won't come close to being the crappy game BOS was, Vandalvideo

things that are not canon = everything you listed. not a single thing you mentioned has to do with canon.

how can i understand your point when you're not even making a valid one? ok you don't like that the ghouls are fast? and that it isn't turn based? and that you think there is no story without even playing the game that supposedly has 200+ endings? you think those 200+ endings are just for gameplay? have nothing to do with plot? the mood has changed? nearly every preview i've read says it does a great job of capturing the feeling of the series... tweaking to appeal to casuals? gimme a break..

anyways - don't wanna argue with someone that's so determined to hate a product they have very little knowledge of and haven't played. no offense, but those arguments get old quick.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="HummaKavula"]

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

thrones

you forgot to add, "...in my opinion." becaues all the critical acclaim from reviewers, magazines and gamers adamantly disagree with you.

It wasn't your cup of coffe, fine. But don't suppose to make it a fact that the game sucked. Your opinion is not fact. Don't present it as such.

Doesn't stop it from being a overly simplified game compared to Morrowind.

Oh noes, that's just horrible! It must be teh super hardcore for us to approve. *rolls eyes* I don't care how overly simplified it was. If it would've been overly simplified and fun at the same time, then I would've loved it. It was just a boring game to me. Morrowind was boring as all hell, too.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Remember, Interplay killed Fallout, not Bethesda...

thrones

Doubtful. I don't see Fallout 3 getting below 8.5's across the board, but we'll see. Also, if I play it and dislike it, then I'll be honest about it. I didn't like Oblivion at all. I think Fallout 3 looks sexy delicious, though. MMM, it's the Fallout I've always wanted. MMM, yes! :D How much do you guys love me now....? :)

I slightly dislike you. But, to the point it wouldn't be the fallout I grew up with and laughed at. It's like your son growing up and honour student and returning home a druggy :|

Nothing alike....

Wow, taking videogames a little too seriously, eh?

Doesn't stop it from being a overly simplified game compared to Morrowind.

thrones

oh noes i cant make mah overpowered unbalanced spells and enchants anymores and i cantz fly! teh game has been overly simplified!!!!

seriously - try to come up with a valid argument re: oblivion being overly simplified when compared to morrowind. because i've been around since the first ES and I'm tired of people saying this. it's different, but it has nothing to do with it being less complex and everything to do with gameplay balance issues with morrowind.

Doubtful. I don't see Fallout 3 getting below 8.5's across the board, but we'll see. Also, if I play it and dislike it, then I'll be honest about it. I didn't like Oblivion at all. I think Fallout 3 looks sexy delicious, though. MMM, it's the Fallout I've always wanted. MMM, yes! :D How much do you guys love me now....? :)BioShockOwnz

things that are not canon = everything you listed. not a single thing you mentioned has to do with canon. how can i understand your point when you're not even making a valid one? ok you don't like that the ghouls are fast? and that it isn't turn based? and that you think there is no story without even playing the game that supposedly has 200+ endings? you think those 200+ endings are just for gameplay? have nothing to do with plot? the mood has changed? nearly every preview i've read says it does a great job of capturing the feeling of the series... tweaking to appeal to casuals? gimme a break.. anyways - don't wanna argue with someone that's so determined to hate a product they have very little knowledge of and haven't played. no offense, but those arguments get old quick.3picuri3

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Doubtful. I don't see Fallout 3 getting below 8.5's across the board, but we'll see. Also, if I play it and dislike it, then I'll be honest about it. I didn't like Oblivion at all. I think Fallout 3 looks sexy delicious, though. MMM, it's the Fallout I've always wanted. MMM, yes! :D How much do you guys love me now....? :)foxhound_fox

All 50 of you screaming at the top of your lungs won't do much, though. Just sayin'. More people will enjoy Fallout 3 than any of the previous games in the franchise, because it'll be more commercial, but not quite casual. I think this makes some of the elite fans super ******.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="HummaKavula"]

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

thrones

you forgot to add, "...in my opinion." becaues all the critical acclaim from reviewers, magazines and gamers adamantly disagree with you.

It wasn't your cup of coffe, fine. But don't suppose to make it a fact that the game sucked. Your opinion is not fact. Don't present it as such.

Doesn't stop it from being a overly simplified game compared to Morrowind.

...which didn't stop gamers from logging hundreds of hours on it.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="HummaKavula"]

No matter what people say; Oblivion will always be an RPG abomination and a mediocre hack & slash dungeon crawler. I tried it out recently and I'm disgusted at how awful it is. It's like a huge coffee-stain on my favorite and only shirt.

Having said that, I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda.

Seriosly, blowing away and old woman's head, putting it on a counter and trying talking to it and calling it dark humor. Ha ha ha! Hilarious! Except no one's laughing.

Baranga

you forgot to add, "...in my opinion." becaues all the critical acclaim from reviewers, magazines and gamers adamantly disagree with you.

It wasn't your cup of coffe, fine. But don't suppose to make it a fact that the game sucked. Your opinion is not fact. Don't present it as such.

Reviewers and magazines lost their credibility ages ago, and 90% of the gamers are stupid.

They're like in Fahrenheit 451 - slaves of cheap entertainment, and don't know the true values, which are NOT subjective.

lol who, exactly, do you think you are? gamers are stupid because they liked Oblivion? Are you the God of all things gaming, from which you can tell us all what's right, wrong, best and worst about gaming?

Why would you be so haughty and vendictive as to make such a bizarre statement?