The PS3 Over take the 360.

 I'll answer the question.

Because, every time the XBox 360 had some minor revision, it was reported as the legendary fix for RROD, even though it wasn't really ironed out until the slim. They had various revisions called, and I'm going by memory here, but I think "Zephyr" was one of them. The RROD's kept coming, but so did subsequent revisions to the console (I think it happened about every six months to a year). So, while I think you are correct that it had some impact (hence, why the 360 will probably never break the 100 million mark), it also didn't halt the sales because (again) every game magazine and major website was playing MSes tune. I think RRoD was "fixed" easily as many times as the PS3 has "outsold" the 360, to be blunt.  To this end, MS seemed to buy time continually this generation while they addressed RRoD.

The 360 actually had several revisions as a result of trying to address RRoD.  The generations (before the slim) are as follows:

Xenon (original) -> Zephyr -> Falcon -> Opus -> Jasper -> Trinity (slim)

As you can see, each time they came out with a revision, they were able to dupe people for as long as they could before it was obvious that RRoD was still an issue and then they came out with another revision.

Shewgenja

Spot on..

Which is the reason why any fat 360 can RROD,and now almost all of them are out of warranty,since the model was stop on later 2010 in favor of the slim,it would be hard to find 1 fat 360 this holiday that is cover by the 3 years warranty,since most 360 sold after late 2010 were slim,and we would be on late 2013.

Every single fat model can RROd those are time bombs,the only ones that don't RROD are slim,and not because they don't get damage but MS eliminated the red ring system.

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

 

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

sts106mat

you are a legit clown.

Eltormo makes an assumption, cows believe him, everybody else thinks he's a clown too.  

thats it really

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

 

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

sts106mat

you are a legit clown.

Eltormo makes an assumption, cows believe him, everybody else thinks he's a clown too.  

thats it really

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

[QUOTE="sonny2dap"]those of you who dont want to read 45 pages, summary for you: PS3/2 sales combined Cows claim ownage based on assumptions other posters apply some logic and prove Bovine assumptions false Bovine denial coupled with accusations of Butthurt Most posters argue the difference at this point is meaningless Cows claim ownage again, Other users go through the data conclude the difference in sales is marginal at best, Cows claim ownage.sonny2dap

Now with that, lock should be incoming any minute :P

more like you guys are butthurt and desperate.

80 - 3 = 77  :cool:

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

 

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

Shewgenja

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

 

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

shawn30

[QUOTE="sonny2dap"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"]Well done mah friend, well done. :cool:

Now with that, lock should be incoming any minute :P

Gue1

more like you guys are butthurt and desperate.

80 - 3 = 77  :cool:

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

 

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

Shewgenja

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

[QUOTE="sonny2dap"] ahh if only, as you know should the thread be locked, it will be because the Mod is a butthurt lemming!!!!!!! Shewgenja

more like you guys are butthurt and desperate.

80 - 3 = 77  :cool:

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="Gue1"]

 

more like you guys are butthurt and desperate.

 

80 - 3 = 77  :cool:

RR360DD

[QUOTE="shawn30"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

I'm still getting a kick out of how we are arguing over numbers from the end of March, praying that millions and millions of PS2s sold in 2012 and then washing that jagged pill down with "Sony hasn't said something yet."

 

This, right here, is what it means to be a Lem post 2009.  The game is so up..  I mean, it is roadkill drying in the sun.  And still, they are campaigning for a thread lock.  It just doesn't get better than this.  The cost of admission was $600 but, oh man, what an ending.

Shewgenja

[QUOTE="shawn30"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"] I guess, using that same logic, you justify Microsofts silence after the PS4 unveiling as what?Shewgenja

You're fighting over "not being last"

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="shawn30"] Does the boot acknowledge the ant? MS does things their way, when they want too. Why react or acknowledge when the rival announces their new product. Time is better spent prepping their own. So thye waited until they were ready, and then announced when they will reveal their new product. Simple as that.blue_hazy_basic

You're fighting over "not being last"

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="shawn30"] Does the boot acknowledge the ant? MS does things their way, when they want too. Why react or acknowledge when the rival announces their new product. Time is better spent prepping their own. So thye waited until they were ready, and then announced when they will reveal their new product. Simple as that.blue_hazy_basic

You're fighting over "not being last"

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="shawn30"] Does the boot acknowledge the ant? MS does things their way, when they want too. Why react or acknowledge when the rival announces their new product. Time is better spent prepping their own. So thye waited until they were ready, and then announced when they will reveal their new product. Simple as that.blue_hazy_basic

You're fighting over "not being last"

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="shawn30"] Does the boot acknowledge the ant? MS does things their way, when they want too. Why react or acknowledge when the rival announces their new product. Time is better spent prepping their own. So thye waited until they were ready, and then announced when they will reveal their new product. Simple as that.blue_hazy_basic

You're fighting over "not being last"

360 was granny shifting and sprayed too soon.  That bottle o' Kinect is losing its pressure and it screwed up the manifold.  You're lucky you didn't Red Ring your pistons  PS3's gonna win.

Win win, not Cow Win.  Not Second place, but First.

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

 

 

Look at the sales of the 360 slim,how they spike compare to sales of the old fat 360,even when the price was never drop for the slim models.

What does this have to do with whether the RRoD had an impact on the 360 sales?

Why don't you make a poll to see how many had slim 360 here.? if they actually dare to answer honestly.

I think we established like 15 pages ago that any random poll on here would not be accurate, because people would pad the numbers.

RROD was huge,then come the ban waves of millions of units for piracy,where hackers just sold their machines slapped their HDD in a new core unit and off they go.

Sure it was, and the ban hammer helped sales also. Just like the YLoD, DRE issues, blu-ray diode failures, free give aways with the purchase of a TV, etc helped the PS3 sales. They are still sales, and you just can't remove them or add them, like you want to do, just because you want to cherry pick issues.

 

 

.tormentos

That many people changed their fat 360 for a slim one

Oh you can ask make a thread and ask lemming their vote would be count at the spot rather than having cows or hermits tapping the poll,we know here who is who.

Funny that you say that.

The xbox 360 suffer from DRE.

The xbox 360 was given away with laptops did you forgot that wait what about Mountain Do sinse 2005 give away.?

There wasn't a blu-ray diode problem with the PS3,it was a Diode shortage before launch.

YLOD is not even close to RROD,in fact YLOD by your own link claim to be less than 10%,while on 360 without RROD counted the 360 had 11% fail rate that was without RROD.

The xbox 360 had more problems,and many things that re sold millions of 360,those live accounts are the biggest testament.

Who cares? Both consoles have had failures. Both consoles have given away packages. That's not the point. The point is that you cannot say that you want to remove sales from the over all sales of the 360 for whatever reason, and then not do the same to the PS3 for similar reasons. You can't remove RRoD failures, and then not remove the YLoD failures on the other side. It doesn't work that way. You can't cherry pick.

It's not a hard concept. Why can't you get it? Yes, it's a rhetorical question. I know exactly why you can't get it, or should I say why you refuse to get it. 

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Rebuys or no rebuys, sales are sales. The amount of PS2s rebought due to disk read error is never questioned. Probably because it is a stupid assertion.

WilliamRLBaker

First of all we have reports of fail rate as low as 30% and as high as 54%.

We have a company that was ask about 54% fail rate and instead of denying it,actually evaded the question and talked about how wonderful the xbox experience was,in my country that is known as ""confirmacion sin comentarios"" confirmation without conmments,is when you say more by not saying anything.

RROD was incredibly huge the ammount of money MS pulled away for repairs was incredibly big,it was not 3 dollars it was 1 billion,and proved by the endless design changes RROD on fat models was here to stay,and never went away.

You can deny this by hiding on not actuall numbers but that is actually the biggest proof of how big RROD was,if by any chance it would have been small MS would not hide the numbers,do you think MS will come out and say hey our true fail rate was 58% or even 40%,that is impossible is trademark suicide.

This is what you need to know MS fiercely deny high fail rates,for more than a year and a half,and actually charged people $150 dollars for repairs when they knew the problem was huge,the xbox 360 warranty was extended twice,once from 90 days to 1 year and then from 1 year to 3,the 3 year been when they could not hide the fail rate any more and was force to act or face a recall.

http://www.360-hq.com/news-print-985.html

Then there is this ^^ remember how an EA employee on 2006 actually told the press that the fail rate was between 30 and 50%.?

Because that bad the fail rate was,horror stories every where about people having consoles die on them left and right,in fact some repair centers refuse to take units because of the high volume,pretending that RROD was small is a joke it was huge,and i am sure than now less than 50 million units actually work,those 46 million live account give everything away,and those include silver and gold.

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

 I'll answer the question.

Because, every time the XBox 360 had some minor revision, it was reported as the legendary fix for RROD, even though it wasn't really ironed out until the slim. They had various revisions called, and I'm going by memory here, but I think "Zephyr" was one of them. The RROD's kept coming, but so did subsequent revisions to the console (I think it happened about every six months to a year). So, while I think you are correct that it had some impact (hence, why the 360 will probably never break the 100 million mark), it also didn't halt the sales because (again) every game magazine and major website was playing MSes tune. I think RRoD was "fixed" easily as many times as the PS3 has "outsold" the 360, to be blunt.  To this end, MS seemed to buy time continually this generation while they addressed RRoD.

The 360 actually had several revisions as a result of trying to address RRoD.  The generations (before the slim) are as follows:

Xenon (original) -> Zephyr -> Falcon -> Opus -> Jasper -> Trinity (slim)

As you can see, each time they came out with a revision, they were able to dupe people for as long as they could before it was obvious that RRoD was still an issue and then they came out with another revision.

tormentos

Spot on..

Which is the reason why any fat 360 can RROD,and now almost all of them are out of warranty,since the model was stop on later 2010 in favor of the slim,it would be hard to find 1 fat 360 this holiday that is cover by the 3 years warranty,since most 360 sold after late 2010 were slim,and we would be on late 2013.

And every single Phat PS3 can get the YLoD, and most have at least once.

Every single fat model can RROd those are time bombs,the only ones that don't RROD are slim,and not because they don't get damage but MS eliminated the red ring system.

Sony also eliminated the YLoD on their slim model. Not because they can't still fail, but because they took out the blue LED. So no more Yellow Light.

Are you equating the RRoD to YLoD?  Is this really happening?  How many class action lawsuits were levvied on Sony for its console failures?

Dude..  I mean..  They're not even in the same galaxy.

while your at it eltormo, you can knock of the thousands of PS3's sony gave away with their TV's and also those given to customers of the car phone warehouse, plus those given away the other week on family fortunes.sts106mat

Really compare that to the millions of laptops with windows that got a free 360...

Or are you going to argue now that sony sell more TV's than PC manufactures sell windows laptops..:lol:

When the PS3 launch already MS had give many 360,in fact the first 360 to be ever give even bofore the console was release were Mountaine Do 360.:lol:

Even before launch..

Are you equating the RRoD to YLoD?  Is this really happening?  How many class action lawsuits were levvied on Sony for its console failures?

 

Dude..  I mean..  They're not even in the same galaxy.

Shewgenja

Are you talking to me?

[QUOTE="sts106mat"] while your at it eltormo, you can knock of the thousands of PS3's sony gave away with their TV's and also those given to customers of the car phone warehouse, plus those given away the other week on family fortunes.tormentos

Really compare that to the millions of laptops with windows that got a free 360...

Or are you going to argue now that sony sell more TV's than PC manufactures sell windows laptops..:lol:

When the PS3 launch already MS had give many 360,in fact the first 360 to be ever give even bofore the console was release were Mountaine Do 360.:lol:

Even before launch..

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Are you equating the RRoD to YLoD?  Is this really happening?  How many class action lawsuits were levvied on Sony for its console failures?

 

Dude..  I mean..  They're not even in the same galaxy.

coasterguy65

Are you talking to me?

Wii still wins.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Rebuys or no rebuys, sales are sales. The amount of PS2s rebought due to disk read error is never questioned. Probably because it is a stupid assertion.

tormentos

First of all we have reports of fail rate as low as 30% and as high as 54%.

We have a company that was ask about 54% fail rate and instead of denying it,actually evaded the question and talked about how wonderful the xbox experience was,in my country that is known as ""confirmacion sin comentarios"" confirmation without conmments,is when you say more by not saying anything.

RROD was incredibly huge the ammount of money MS pulled away for repairs was incredibly big,it was not 3 dollars it was 1 billion,and proved by the endless design changes RROD on fat models was here to stay,and never went away.

You can deny this by hiding on not actuall numbers but that is actually the biggest proof of how big RROD was,if by any chance it would have been small MS would not hide the numbers,do you think MS will come out and say hey our true fail rate was 58% or even 40%,that is impossible is trademark suicide.

This is what you need to know MS fiercely deny high fail rates,for more than a year and a half,and actually charged people $150 dollars for repairs when they knew the problem was huge,the xbox 360 warranty was extended twice,once from 90 days to 1 year and then from 1 year to 3,the 3 year been when they could not hide the fail rate any more and was force to act or face a recall.

http://www.360-hq.com/news-print-985.html

Then there is this ^^ remember how an EA employee on 2006 actually told the press that the fail rate was between 30 and 50%.?

Because that bad the fail rate was,horror stories every where about people having consoles die on them left and right,in fact some repair centers refuse to take units because of the high volume,pretending that RROD was small is a joke it was huge,and i am sure than now less than 50 million units actually work,those 46 million live account give everything away,and those include silver and gold.

Tormentos, why do you keep bringing up an argument that you ALWAYS LOSE? Are you hoping that if you bring up the same argument to enough people that eventually you will win for once?

It's rather sad at this point. Really...

M$ are so desperate they give free Xbox's at every chance they got. Those should be discounted too!

Starting May 22, students buying a new Windows 7-based PC priced at $699 (U.S.) or more will also get a free Xbox 360 4GB console.

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Are you equating the RRoD to YLoD?  Is this really happening?  How many class action lawsuits were levvied on Sony for its console failures?

 

Dude..  I mean..  They're not even in the same galaxy.

Shewgenja

Are you talking to me?

Ok just wanted to check.

Anyway...I'm not equating the RRoD to the YLoD. I've said it before numerous times.

What Tormentos wants to do is remove x amount of RRoD consoles from the overall 360 sales, because he is assuming that all of those RRoD consoles were replaced by new systems. Thereby moving the PS3 solidly into 2nd place.

With me so far?

My point, and it has been the same point for at least 15 pages now is. Is that if he is going to remove x amount of consoles from the over all sales of the Xbox 360 because of failures. Then to be fair. He must also remove PS3 consoles that were replaced because of failures from the PS3's overall numbers. 

Why is this concept so hard to grasp? It has nothing to do with the amount of RRoD vs YLoD. Anybody with a functioning brain knows the RRoD was bigger.

M$ are so desperate they give free Xbox's at every chance they got. Those should be discounted too!

 

 

Starting May 22, students buying a new Windows 7-based PC priced at $699 (U.S.) or more will also get a free Xbox 360 4GB console.

Gue1

Because free consoles don't count as sales by law. They are giveaways. 

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

Are you talking to me?

coasterguy65

Ok just wanted to check.

Anyway...I'm not equating the RRoD to the YLoD. I've said it before numerous times.

What Tormentos wants to do is remove x amount of RRoD consoles from the overall 360 sales, because he is assuming that all of those RRoD consoles were replaced by new systems. Thereby moving the PS3 solidly into 2nd place.

With me so far?

My point, and it has been the same point for at least 15 pages now is. Is that if he is going to remove x amount of consoles from the over all sales of the Xbox 360 because of failures. Then to be fair. He must also remove PS3 consoles that were replaced because of failures from the PS3's overall numbers. 

Why is this concept so hard to grasp? It has nothing to do with the amount of RRoD vs YLoD. Anybody with a functioning brain knows the RRoD was bigger.

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"] Yes, sorry, I should have quoted.Shewgenja

Ok just wanted to check.

Anyway...I'm not equating the RRoD to the YLoD. I've said it before numerous times.

What Tormentos wants to do is remove x amount of RRoD consoles from the overall 360 sales, because he is assuming that all of those RRoD consoles were replaced by new systems. Thereby moving the PS3 solidly into 2nd place.

With me so far?

My point, and it has been the same point for at least 15 pages now is. Is that if he is going to remove x amount of consoles from the over all sales of the Xbox 360 because of failures. Then to be fair. He must also remove PS3 consoles that were replaced because of failures from the PS3's overall numbers. 

Why is this concept so hard to grasp? It has nothing to do with the amount of RRoD vs YLoD. Anybody with a functioning brain knows the RRoD was bigger.

Right..yet here we are arguing about it 15 pages later (him and myself that is). When it should have just died off. I think I just need to ignore it at this point.

Anyway, I though the number of banned consoles was closer to 1 million? Still shouldn't have happened. I agree. It was a dick thing to do, but then so was modding your console to play burned games.

[QUOTE="delta3074"]I have had 4 360's fail. i had 5 Ps1's fail, which i stated in my post if you read it properly, 3 of my Ps1's the Plastic cog in the Laser unit broke 3 (they where flimsy as hell )and the other 2 had DRE, my memory doesn't fail me at all, i had more Ps1's fail on me than 360's, end oftormentos

Really what where the failures you got on your so call PS1.?

I would really love this one,since the PS1 did not had fail moniquer attach to it,it over heat and cause FMV to start skipping that was about it,and latter models did not do that,it was the very first models.

The xbox 360 has a recorded fail rate,and the compan who sold them extrended its warranty to 3 years which cost them 1 cool billion,you can invent all the sh** you want the PS1 did not had a fail rate like the 360 or close.

If the any 360 unit from 2005 or 2006 would be a human,it would have like 4 or 5 terminal deseases dude,that horrible was the fail rate oh and the fail rate wasn't just one problem,it was many from memory,to GPU and CPU to scalar you name it anything inside the console could fail.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/errors/error-codes

This is a joke and the fact that you dare to claim to have own 5 PS1 say how much of a joke your post is.

 It isn't baseless,it just isn't easily quantified. Rebuys do happen. We know this. Normally we can safely ignore it because it's percentage is pretty low and the usual places are decided by far bigger percentages than any reasonable assumptions of rebuys could account for. However, this time we have a very rare case of the 2nd place being within the region of 1% of sales making all the difference. As to is it important, for some yeah. It speaks to the actual size of the fanbase, and particularly going into next gen that is quite important, at least initially. I would personally say the difference is too small to worry over, but this is SW. We quibble over minor *bleep* all the time, so not exactly unusual or unwarranted here.DerekLoffin

Are you shitting me? 

You can't prove any of that. You do not have a clue how small rebuys occur, or for what reason they occur so why on earth do you think you can turn it into any sort of real argument? Your feelings? Because its convient? Rebuys have occurred in every market ever, its not relevant to determing a winner because there is 0 way any tracker can prove this, quantify it in numbers and use it to discredit the competition. Stop entertaining it, its stupid.

Here is the actual reality. The size of your userbase is not an indication of fanbase because I've said 100 times, 100% of the userbase is never active at anytime. It doesn't ever work like that, software does not just scale linearly and directly to userbase ever. I have no interest in who won, but I do find this whole theory so ridiculous.

How many times over the last 8 years have cows said this.  How many times have they been right?  When will they move out of the denial stage of grief?

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Rebuys or no rebuys, sales are sales. The amount of PS2s rebought due to disk read error is never questioned. Probably because it is a stupid assertion.

tormentos

First of all we have reports of fail rate as low as 30% and as high as 54%.

We have a company that was ask about 54% fail rate and instead of denying it,actually evaded the question and talked about how wonderful the xbox experience was,in my country that is known as ""confirmacion sin comentarios"" confirmation without conmments,is when you say more by not saying anything.

RROD was incredibly huge the ammount of money MS pulled away for repairs was incredibly big,it was not 3 dollars it was 1 billion,and proved by the endless design changes RROD on fat models was here to stay,and never went away.

You can deny this by hiding on not actuall numbers but that is actually the biggest proof of how big RROD was,if by any chance it would have been small MS would not hide the numbers,do you think MS will come out and say hey our true fail rate was 58% or even 40%,that is impossible is trademark suicide.

This is what you need to know MS fiercely deny high fail rates,for more than a year and a half,and actually charged people $150 dollars for repairs when they knew the problem was huge,the xbox 360 warranty was extended twice,once from 90 days to 1 year and then from 1 year to 3,the 3 year been when they could not hide the fail rate any more and was force to act or face a recall.

http://www.360-hq.com/news-print-985.html

Then there is this ^^ remember how an EA employee on 2006 actually told the press that the fail rate was between 30 and 50%.?

Because that bad the fail rate was,horror stories every where about people having consoles die on them left and right,in fact some repair centers refuse to take units because of the high volume,pretending that RROD was small is a joke it was huge,and i am sure than now less than 50 million units actually work,those 46 million live account give everything away,and those include silver and gold.

RROD was wide spread, no one was denying it besides Ms because that's what PR does, however, the warranty for the system (and atleast in Canada as far as I'm aware for any major electronic is always 1 year) was 1 year and extended to 3 years. That means that the system was covered and fixable without major cost to the majority of buyers for free. If they chose to buy a new console, that is there choice irrelevant to your desire to discount them. A 3 year warranty on any electronic is a long period of time and for a product that can and did have a large failure rate, it is a reasonable period of time. The rest of your post is none sense I'm not entertaining.

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] It isn't baseless,it just isn't easily quantified. Rebuys do happen. We know this. Normally we can safely ignore it because it's percentage is pretty low and the usual places are decided by far bigger percentages than any reasonable assumptions of rebuys could account for. However, this time we have a very rare case of the 2nd place being within the region of 1% of sales making all the difference. As to is it important, for some yeah. It speaks to the actual size of the fanbase, and particularly going into next gen that is quite important, at least initially. I would personally say the difference is too small to worry over, but this is SW. We quibble over minor *bleep* all the time, so not exactly unusual or unwarranted here.ActicEdge

Are you shitting me? 

You can't prove any of that.

Prove exactly what?  That rebuys happen, even you admit they happen.  That they don't account for a large percentage of sales, that's a pretty safe assumption (one even you are using).  In fact, if it isn't, it would speak even more to the point that they should be considered, not ignored, but they are usually small percentage wise.  That they aren't easily quantified, no, that's true too, unless you want to contradict yourself and come up with some concrete number (since I agreed with you here), and if you can, wonderful, we can put this whole debate to bed.  So, what exactly are you going on about?

  You do not have a clue how small rebuys occur, or for what reason they occur so why on earth do you think you can turn it into any sort of real argument? Your feelings? Because its convient? Rebuys have occurred in every market ever, its not relevant to determing a winner because there is 0 way any tracker can prove this, quantify it in numbers and use it to discredit the competition. Stop entertaining it, its stupid.

Here is the actual reality. The size of your userbase is not an indication of fanbase because I've said 100 times, 100% of the userbase is never active at anytime. It doesn't ever work like that, software does not just scale linearly and directly to userbase ever. I have no interest in who won, but I do find this whole theory so ridiculous.

Let me give you a little math. A * X * Y * Z and B * X * Y * Z.  Now, if the differences in X Y and Z are minimal (and positive), even if you don't know what X Y and Z are, if you know the size of A and B, you can predict the relative size of the result of both these equations (so if A is bigger than B, you can predice A * X * Y * Z is bigger than B * X * Y * Z).

So, now, keep that in mind.  Now, we are dealing with wanting to know the fanbase.  If the relative values of the elements affecting such remain roughly the same percentage wise, we can predict such from the salesbase, even though you won't know the exact number.  Of course, this breaks down when we get really close, or we get one of the X Y Z factors not being consistent (for example rebuys) which is why I said it is too small to worry over. 

Are lemmings really that upset over this?

so after 7 years the ps3 is still having a hard time crawling out of last place? how did sony lose half of their fanbase in just one generation? :(