THQ: Buying used games is cheating

[QUOTE="darthogre"]cheated? Ok, I would like to know if ANY of those THQ employees have every purchased a used car instead of buying a new one. How about have they ever SOLD their old car? What about houses......has anyone of them ever purchased a used house or have all of them purchased new ones? What about sold as well? Are they saying you cheat each of those business because you sold your OWN property? Essentially what THQ is trying to do is say, well you may buy one of our used cars but we are going to disable the engine so you'll have to come to us to fix it. Give me a break........these developers are asking for sympathy when a lot of the entire world economy is based on selling used items lol. Like games are supposed to be special or something?CajunShooter

The problem in the gaming world is that used game stores will get copies of a recently released game just a couple weeks after its release. The store will then persuade people that are bringing up new copies of the game to buy the used for $5 less instead.

[QUOTE="darthogre"][QUOTE="shakmaster13"] You don't own games, only licenses to play them.TerrorRizzing

The facts are that if 10% of the games are traded in and resold that is 10% loss in potential revenue. That may not sound like a lot and while it may not be detrimental to a publisher a may be enough to close down a developer or no longer publish that developers games.

I definitely have this feeling that the people that are backing up the game companies are the people that have been playing games for decades and appreciated the gaming companies and their talents.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"]

[QUOTE="darthogre"] LOL That's like saying you don't own your car........you paid them the right to drive it? So what exactly did you just pay 15k for then? You have a legitimate reciept of purchase that UNFORTUNATELY for developers gives the control over that ONE disc of the game to the purchaser.........it's not cheating ANYONE. When you sale your house, are you cheating the other companies that make new ones? If you sale your car are you cheating Ford or Toyota? Come on....video games are NOTHING special. It's like any other property. If I can sale my computer and Bill Gates isn't calling for my head why is it Game Developers suddenly think they deserve to be put in a special catagory?darthogre

Heck in my country the law wont even help them against piracy unless someone is selling pirated copies. In the usa piracy is illegal because those huge corporations kept at it until it was.

Piracy is like getting the recipe to make a big mac, you only have information. Now if I started making big macs and selling them, different issue. In my country the fact that its so easy to use the information to play a game or music is irrelevant, its the same thing to them.

If they could outlaw used sales, they would... but they cant.

And my BS decter has gone through the roof.

lordreaven

Mine has been buzzing around the stratosphere a good few weeks now.

Well, I guess I will just keep on 'cheating' then. There are some games that I really want to buy, but simply cannot justify paying $60.00 for... and I am not going to.:) In this sense, I think over charging for certain games that are simply not worth their price is 'cheating' the customer. See, it works both ways, THQ.;)

Well, I guess I will just keep on 'cheating' then. There are some games that I really want to buy, but simply cannot justify paying $60.00 for... and I am not going to.:) In this sense, I think over charging for certain games that are simply not worth their price is 'cheating' the customer. See, it works both ways, THQ.;)

ironcreed

[QUOTE="ironcreed"]

Well, I guess I will just keep on 'cheating' then. There are some games that I really want to buy, but simply cannot justify paying $60.00 for... and I am not going to.:) In this sense, I think over charging for certain games that are simply not worth their price is 'cheating' the customer. See, it works both ways, THQ.;)

TerrorRizzing

Because I am not a thief. Buying a used game that was already bought is not stealing. Just like buying a used car is not considered stealing, either. If I can save a few dollars by buying a used game that is not worth full retail, then I will do it.

Put it this way, until there is a law saying that I have to buy all my games brand new, I am not doing anything wrong by choosing to save a few dollars here and there buying used games. Besides, I buy my most anticipated games brand new anyway. Yet there are some games that are simply not worth full price brand new, I don't care what anyone says.

Well maybe if they didn't charge $60 for every freaking game used games wouldn't be as much a problem with them. I swear, only the games industry can get away with this BS. If you bought a car used, would the original car manufacturer get money? No they wouldn't, because someone else already purchased the car. This industry just annoys the crap out of me, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Vari3ty

If you think that is a legit analogy then you have no clue what you're talking about. Used cars and used games are totally different. Digital media has an infinite lifespan which is the problem and it's also the reason your car analogy does not apply.

Maybe console gamers will realize that used games are a cancer to the industry. They constantly talk about pirates and PC gaming and then they'll go and screw the publisher by buying used games just like pirates screw the publishers by dling games.

I don't get console gamers. It's such a simple concept...give money to the people who made the game, not gamestop.

[QUOTE="Vari3ty"]

Well maybe if they didn't charge $60 for every freaking game used games wouldn't be as much a problem with them. I swear, only the games industry can get away with this BS. If you bought a car used, would the original car manufacturer get money? No they wouldn't, because someone else already purchased the car. This industry just annoys the crap out of me, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

mudman91878

If you think that is a legit analogy then you have no clue what you're talking about. Used cars and used games are totally different. Digital media has an infinite lifespan which is the problem and it's also the reason your car analogy does not apply.

Maybe console gamers will realize that used games are a cancer to the industry. They constantly talk about pirates and PC gaming and then they'll go and screw the publisher by buying used games just like pirates screw the publishers by dling games.

I don't get console gamers. It's such a simple concept...give money to the people who made the game, not gamestop.

Maybe saving money is a concept that is foreign to you. Especially when it comes to 6 hour games that are simply not worth full price. Again, until there is a law stating it is illegal, you have no argument.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"][QUOTE="ironcreed"]

Well, I guess I will just keep on 'cheating' then. There are some games that I really want to buy, but simply cannot justify paying $60.00 for... and I am not going to.:) In this sense, I think over charging for certain games that are simply not worth their price is 'cheating' the customer. See, it works both ways, THQ.;)

ironcreed

Because I am not a thief. Buying a used game that was already bought is not stealing. Just like buying a used car is not considered stealing, either. If I can save a few dollars by buying a used game that is not worth full retail, then I will do it.

[QUOTE="mudman91878"]

[QUOTE="Vari3ty"]

Well maybe if they didn't charge $60 for every freaking game used games wouldn't be as much a problem with them. I swear, only the games industry can get away with this BS. If you bought a car used, would the original car manufacturer get money? No they wouldn't, because someone else already purchased the car. This industry just annoys the crap out of me, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

ironcreed

If you think that is a legit analogy then you have no clue what you're talking about. Used cars and used games are totally different. Digital media has an infinite lifespan which is the problem and it's also the reason your car analogy does not apply.

Maybe console gamers will realize that used games are a cancer to the industry. They constantly talk about pirates and PC gaming and then they'll go and screw the publisher by buying used games just like pirates screw the publishers by dling games.

I don't get console gamers. It's such a simple concept...give money to the people who made the game, not gamestop.

Maybe saving money is a concept that is foreign to you. Especially when it comes to 6 hour games that are simply not worth full price. Again, until there is a law stating it is illegal, you have no argument.

[QUOTE="timmy00"]

"THQ's Cory Ledesma has delivered a blunt message to consumers buying used copies of his company's games: they're cheating the publisher out of money."

I can agree with that.

SakusEnvoy

I do agree with THQ's right to put conditions on the sales of their products; however, I do agree with you, too. Some developer's need to put a little more effortinto releasing games that people want to keep.

[QUOTE="Videodogg"]

selling ANYTHING used does not make money for the original seller. I dont see how it is any of THQ's business. If i want to sell a game i own , i will. If want to buy a used game from someone i will.

shakmaster13

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Screw em. Make your games a reasonable price to content ratio and I won't need to buy used.CajunShooter

Now people complain about a 10 hour game that cost $60? Gaming has been one of the few things that has been inflation proof and has gotten cheaper throughout the years.

Quick note to TerrorRizzing, I live in canada and no piracy isnt legal here. Pirates get busted here on a regular basis, most of them dvd pirates and satelite pirates. just one example is there used to be 6 dealers selling equipment for pirating both dish network and bell expressvu not far from where I lived. 4 got raided and 3 subsequently shut down cause of the busts & lawsuits. Busts against video stores for having pirated movies goes back longer than I do, back when Beta was still available.PirateRyoko

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"][QUOTE="Videodogg"]
So?[QUOTE="CajunShooter"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Screw em. Make your games a reasonable price to content ratio and I won't need to buy used.McStrongfast

Now people complain about a 10 hour game that cost $60? Gaming has been one of the few things that has been inflation proof and has gotten cheaper throughout the years.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Many of you do not realize that you are not buying anything but a license to play the game, you do not own it. Just like a book, Sure you own the cover and the paper it was printed on, but you do not have any rights to use the words any way you want. You cannot reprint the book without permission from the publishers and they are paid for the copies used at libraries. Book publishers even discount the price of books when multiple copies are bought , just like software publishers discount multiple licenses.

Now if gamers want to buy multiple licenses for games that can be used for others to use, go for it, I am sure publishers may work out a deal.

ActicEdge

I didn't buy just the license, I bought the disk, I bought the book I bought the whole game. Its not a simple license to play the game, its not illegal to sell games, rent them or lend them so this is clearly, clearly false.

It will always be a contentious issue between devleopers/publishers and gamers. You paid for a disk, but as a writer still owns the copyright to the words he writes in a book, or a painter who owns the copyright to the painting he painted, game developers/publishers still own the copyright to the game. As with a book, you can read it all you want. You can even reprint small portions for specific purposes, but you cannot just do anything you want with said words. First Sale Doctrine does come into play, you can give the game, book or painting away, you can even sell them, yet even then, the next owner cannot just do anything they want with said items, the copyright and license still stands.

Games are licensed. You can either accept the license or not. If installing a PC game, you click on I agree, you agree to said terms though there have been some instances where EULAs have been tossed out, but that had to do with people who never agreed to said license. If you put a console disk in the console, you agree (and in the case of the PS3, games are installed to a HDD).

The problem with used game sales, is that when retailers such as GameStop push used games over new, then of course, publishers are not making any money. That is the biggest contention and when GameStop Used Game Sales To Reach $2 Billion (it's even more for this year), it hits publishers in the wallet. Publishers are not worried about used game sales between gamers. First Sales Doctrine protect you there.

Should new games be $60? I said it before, it is the gamer's fault for paying that price to begin with. Should games be longer? Again, it is the gamer's fault for buying games that do not offer the content and playing time y'all want. Why are games mediocre? Because gamers keep buying them. Want to effect change? Stop buying garbage and once profits to publishers drop due to lackluster game sales, they will do one of two things, create better games, or eventually, go out of business.

[QUOTE="ironcreed"]

[QUOTE="mudman91878"]

If you think that is a legit analogy then you have no clue what you're talking about. Used cars and used games are totally different. Digital media has an infinite lifespan which is the problem and it's also the reason your car analogy does not apply.

Maybe console gamers will realize that used games are a cancer to the industry. They constantly talk about pirates and PC gaming and then they'll go and screw the publisher by buying used games just like pirates screw the publishers by dling games.

I don't get console gamers. It's such a simple concept...give money to the people who made the game, not gamestop.

TerrorRizzing

Maybe saving money is a concept that is foreign to you. Especially when it comes to 6 hour games that are simply not worth full price. Again, until there is a law stating it is illegal, you have no argument.

Look, I do support devs on games that I feel are worth it. Hell, I just went and pre-ordered and paid off 3 games. Unfortunately, I have to be more concerned with my financial situation more than making sure they get their fair share. Buying used games is no better or worse than buying anything else used, but it sure as hell is not on the same level as stealing the game entirely. No, the dev is not getting paid, but I am still buying the game.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Many of you do not realize that you are not buying anything but a license to play the game, you do not own it. Just like a book, Sure you own the cover and the paper it was printed on, but you do not have any rights to use the words any way you want. You cannot reprint the book without permission from the publishers and they are paid for the copies used at libraries. Book publishers even discount the price of books when multiple copies are bought , just like software publishers discount multiple licenses.

Now if gamers want to buy multiple licenses for games that can be used for others to use, go for it, I am sure publishers may work out a deal.

WhiteKnight77

I didn't buy just the license, I bought the disk, I bought the book I bought the whole game. Its not a simple license to play the game, its not illegal to sell games, rent them or lend them so this is clearly, clearly false.

It will always be a contentious issue between devleopers/publishers and gamers. You paid for a disk, but as a writer still owns the copyright to the words he writes in a book, or a painter who owns the copyright to the painting he painted, game developers/publishers still own the copyright to the game. As with a book, you can read it all you want. You can even reprint small portions for specific purposes, but you cannot just do anything you want with said words. First Sale Doctrine does come into play, you can give the game, book or painting away, you can even sell them, yet even then, the next owner cannot just do anything they want with said items, the copyright and license still stands.

Games are licensed. You can either accept the license or not. If installing a PC game, you click on I agree, you agree to said terms though there have been some instances where EULAs have been tossed out, but that had to do with people who never agreed to said license. If you put a console disk in the console, you agree (and in the case of the PS3, games are installed to a HDD).

The problem with used game sales, is that when retailers such as GameStop push used games over new, then of course, publishers are not making any money. That is the biggest contention and when GameStop Used Game Sales To Reach $2 Billion (it's even more for this year), it hits publishers in the wallet. Publishers are not worried about used game sales between gamers. First Sales Doctrine protect you there.

Should new games be $60? I said it before, it is the gamer's fault for paying that price to begin with. Should games be longer? Again, it is the gamer's fault for buying games that do not offer the content and playing time y'all want. Why are games mediocre? Because gamers keep buying them. Want to effect change? Stop buying garbage and once profits to publishers drop due to lackluster game sales, they will do one of two things, create better games, or eventually, go out of business.

Exactly, and so long as I keep only a single disk in circulation it is my game. They own the rights to the characters assets etc but the disk is not theres. I didn't buy a license to use the disk. The disk is physically mine to do whatever I please with. This isn't arguable. We are all bound to laws that stop us from simply making copies of work that isn't originally ours but there is a reason I'm not bound to specific practices in what I do with my copy besides reproducing it and stealing parts of it.

And no, it is not a license, please remove said though from your head. You bought the rights to the game and it is your under the CONDITION by law, that you don't try to make money off of it while retaining the orginal copy. Its not a license, that is incorrect.

If pubs have a problem, take it up with Gamestop, attacking the consumer is poor. Its a double edged sword with the BS they pull with there limited edition, DLC, pre order deals (that they specifically do in PARTNERSHIP with Gamestop :roll: ) If there wallets are hurting then they are clearly, clearly doing somethingwrong. As for all this do something about it stuff, I already do, I don't buy content I don't see fit to grace my systems. Too bad for them but now they wish to lock up portions of their game from anyone but the original buyers? That's absolute BS.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"]

[QUOTE="darthogre"] LOL That's like saying you don't own your car........you paid them the right to drive it? So what exactly did you just pay 15k for then? You have a legitimate reciept of purchase that UNFORTUNATELY for developers gives the control over that ONE disc of the game to the purchaser.........it's not cheating ANYONE. When you sale your house, are you cheating the other companies that make new ones? If you sale your car are you cheating Ford or Toyota? Come on....video games are NOTHING special. It's like any other property. If I can sale my computer and Bill Gates isn't calling for my head why is it Game Developers suddenly think they deserve to be put in a special catagory?locopatho

ya, everyone was 8 in the 90s.

TerrorRizzing

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

so has the pirated version, at some point.TerrorRizzing

The problem in the gaming world is that used game stores will get copies of a recently released game just a couple weeks after its release. The store will then persuade people that are bringing up new copies of the game to buy the used for $5 less instead.

CajunShooter

If the problem is Gamestop, then perhaps the industry should approach Gamestop instead of taking the easy way out by screwing over the end user.

The facts are that if 10% of the games are traded in and resold that is 10% loss in potential revenue. That may not sound like a lot and while it may not be detrimental to a publisher a may be enough to close down a developer or no longer publish that developers games.

I definitely have this feeling that the people that are backing up the game companies are the people that have been playing games for decades and appreciated the gaming companies and their talents.

CajunShooter

And also, what do you think the people who sell their games use their money for? I trade games in for new ones, that's what I do. If I couldn't sell my games I would purchase less new ones, or for less money. Loss in potential revenue.

So is Gamefly run by Satan?Head_of_games

▲ Gamefly is a rental service mostly. Anyways, when was the last time any developer especially THQ made a game worth spending 60$? ▲

Punishing people who buy the game new to combat used game sales is also cheating. That includes VIP codes because sharing games with friends has always been part of the gaming tradition.

erglesmergle

nobody gets punished for buying it new.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

It will always be a contentious issue between devleopers/publishers and gamers. You paid for a disk, but as a writer still owns the copyright to the words he writes in a book, or a painter who owns the copyright to the painting he painted, game developers/publishers still own the copyright to the game. As with a book, you can read it all you want. You can even reprint small portions for specific purposes, but you cannot just do anything you want with said words. First Sale Doctrine does come into play, you can give the game, book or painting away, you can even sell them, yet even then, the next owner cannot just do anything they want with said items, the copyright and license still stands.

Games are licensed. You can either accept the license or not. If installing a PC game, you click on I agree, you agree to said terms though there have been some instances where EULAs have been tossed out, but that had to do with people who never agreed to said license. If you put a console disk in the console, you agree (and in the case of the PS3, games are installed to a HDD).

The problem with used game sales, is that when retailers such as GameStop push used games over new, then of course, publishers are not making any money. That is the biggest contention and when GameStop Used Game Sales To Reach $2 Billion (it's even more for this year), it hits publishers in the wallet. Publishers are not worried about used game sales between gamers. First Sales Doctrine protect you there.

Should new games be $60? I said it before, it is the gamer's fault for paying that price to begin with. Should games be longer? Again, it is the gamer's fault for buying games that do not offer the content and playing time y'all want. Why are games mediocre? Because gamers keep buying them. Want to effect change? Stop buying garbage and once profits to publishers drop due to lackluster game sales, they will do one of two things, create better games, or eventually, go out of business.

ActicEdge

Exactly, and so long as I keep only a single disk in circulation it is my game. They own the rights to the characters assets etc but the disk is not theres. I didn't buy a license to use the disk. The disk is physically mine to do whatever I please with. This isn't arguable. We are all bound to laws that stop us from simply making copies of work that isn't originally ours but there is a reason I'm not bound to specific practices in what I do with my copy besides reproducing it and stealing parts of it.

And no, it is not a license, please remove said though from your head. You bought the rights to the game and it is your under the CONDITION by law, that you don't try to make money off of it while retaining the orginal copy. Its not a license, that is incorrect.

If pubs have a problem, take it up with Gamestop, attacking the consumer is poor. Its a double edged sword with the BS they pull with there limited edition, DLC, pre order deals (that they specifically do in PARTNERSHIP with Gamestop :roll: ) If there wallets are hurting then they are clearly, clearly doing somethingwrong. As for all this do something about it stuff, I already do, I don't buy content I don't see fit to grace my systems. Too bad for them but now they wish to lock up portions of their game from anyone but the original buyers? That's absolute BS.

Gamers are to blame for DLC, pre-orders and the limited edition type stuff as it is gamers who keep buying or pre-ordering said stuff. It's good that you do not buy content you do not see fit to play, I do not either. Until more gamers get the message, then nothing will change. I agree, attacking the consumer shows poor customer service, but no one has to support those who do not pay for services. Unless you plan on hosting a server yourself, it is up to the game's publisher to host servers and that costs money. If a publisher expects a game to be played for 8 months and there still are gamers wanting to play the game online some 2 years later due to used game sales, they should be able to recoup the cost to keep said servers up. Is that right? Hard to say.

Personally, I see some game companies provide service and support to games for years and that is fine, that is their choice. Other companies are out just for money and that is there prerogative Is it right? In a capitalist society, that is their right, but you also have the right to not buy their products or use them if you disagree with their business practices.

[QUOTE="Head_of_games"]So is Gamefly run by Satan?Loco_Live

▲ Gamefly is a rental service mostly. Anyways, when was the last time any developer especially THQ made a game worth spending 60$? ▲

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

I didn't buy just the license, I bought the disk, I bought the book I bought the whole game. Its not a simple license to play the game, its not illegal to sell games, rent them or lend them so this is clearly, clearly false.

ActicEdge

It will always be a contentious issue between devleopers/publishers and gamers. You paid for a disk, but as a writer still owns the copyright to the words he writes in a book, or a painter who owns the copyright to the painting he painted, game developers/publishers still own the copyright to the game. As with a book, you can read it all you want. You can even reprint small portions for specific purposes, but you cannot just do anything you want with said words. First Sale Doctrine does come into play, you can give the game, book or painting away, you can even sell them, yet even then, the next owner cannot just do anything they want with said items, the copyright and license still stands.

Games are licensed. You can either accept the license or not. If installing a PC game, you click on I agree, you agree to said terms though there have been some instances where EULAs have been tossed out, but that had to do with people who never agreed to said license. If you put a console disk in the console, you agree (and in the case of the PS3, games are installed to a HDD).

The problem with used game sales, is that when retailers such as GameStop push used games over new, then of course, publishers are not making any money. That is the biggest contention and when GameStop Used Game Sales To Reach $2 Billion (it's even more for this year), it hits publishers in the wallet. Publishers are not worried about used game sales between gamers. First Sales Doctrine protect you there.

Should new games be $60? I said it before, it is the gamer's fault for paying that price to begin with. Should games be longer? Again, it is the gamer's fault for buying games that do not offer the content and playing time y'all want. Why are games mediocre? Because gamers keep buying them. Want to effect change? Stop buying garbage and once profits to publishers drop due to lackluster game sales, they will do one of two things, create better games, or eventually, go out of business.

Exactly, and so long as I keep only a single disk in circulation it is my game. They own the rights to the characters assets etc but the disk is not theres. I didn't buy a license to use the disk. The disk is physically mine to do whatever I please with. This isn't arguable. We are all bound to laws that stop us from simply making copies of work that isn't originally ours but there is a reason I'm not bound to specific practices in what I do with my copy besides reproducing it and stealing parts of it.

And no, it is not a license, please remove said though from your head. You bought the rights to the game and it is your under the CONDITION by law, that you don't try to make money off of it while retaining the orginal copy. Its not a license, that is incorrect.

If pubs have a problem, take it up with Gamestop, attacking the consumer is poor. Its a double edged sword with the BS they pull with there limited edition, DLC, pre order deals (that they specifically do in PARTNERSHIP with Gamestop :roll: ) If there wallets are hurting then they are clearly, clearly doing somethingwrong. As for all this do something about it stuff, I already do, I don't buy content I don't see fit to grace my systems. Too bad for them but now they wish to lock up portions of their game from anyone but the original buyers? That's absolute BS.

Media is different than buying other things used, other things have a depreciated value with ware and tear and also don't have the same longevity that a new one would cost. Like buying a car, you'll run into more problems with a used car, eventually used cars die and new ones have to be bought. With games there is no wear and tear, and one copy won't die so when there is enough used copies to go around no more new ones need to be bought.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"]
So let me get this straight, you are arguing for consumers being unable to sell, lend, borrow, gift, sell and share their games with friends, family members and distant relatives?
What are you doing that for? :lol:

[QUOTE="CajunShooter"]

The problem in the gaming world is that used game stores will get copies of a recently released game just a couple weeks after its release. The store will then persuade people that are bringing up new copies of the game to buy the used for $5 less instead.

McStrongfast

If the problem is Gamestop, then perhaps the industry should approach Gamestop instead of taking the easy way out by screwing over the end user.

The facts are that if 10% of the games are traded in and resold that is 10% loss in potential revenue. That may not sound like a lot and while it may not be detrimental to a publisher a may be enough to close down a developer or no longer publish that developers games.

I definitely have this feeling that the people that are backing up the game companies are the people that have been playing games for decades and appreciated the gaming companies and their talents.

CajunShooter

And also, what do you think the people who sell their games use their money for? I trade games in for new ones, that's what I do. If I couldn't sell my games I would purchase less new ones, or for less money. Loss in potential revenue.

[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]

Punishing people who buy the game new to combat used game sales is also cheating. That includes VIP codes because sharing games with friends has always been part of the gaming tradition.

warmaster670

nobody gets punished for buying it new.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

It will always be a contentious issue between devleopers/publishers and gamers. You paid for a disk, but as a writer still owns the copyright to the words he writes in a book, or a painter who owns the copyright to the painting he painted, game developers/publishers still own the copyright to the game. As with a book, you can read it all you want. You can even reprint small portions for specific purposes, but you cannot just do anything you want with said words. First Sale Doctrine does come into play, you can give the game, book or painting away, you can even sell them, yet even then, the next owner cannot just do anything they want with said items, the copyright and license still stands.

Games are licensed. You can either accept the license or not. If installing a PC game, you click on I agree, you agree to said terms though there have been some instances where EULAs have been tossed out, but that had to do with people who never agreed to said license. If you put a console disk in the console, you agree (and in the case of the PS3, games are installed to a HDD).

The problem with used game sales, is that when retailers such as GameStop push used games over new, then of course, publishers are not making any money. That is the biggest contention and when GameStop Used Game Sales To Reach $2 Billion (it's even more for this year), it hits publishers in the wallet. Publishers are not worried about used game sales between gamers. First Sales Doctrine protect you there.

Should new games be $60? I said it before, it is the gamer's fault for paying that price to begin with. Should games be longer? Again, it is the gamer's fault for buying games that do not offer the content and playing time y'all want. Why are games mediocre? Because gamers keep buying them. Want to effect change? Stop buying garbage and once profits to publishers drop due to lackluster game sales, they will do one of two things, create better games, or eventually, go out of business.

savagetwinkie

Exactly, and so long as I keep only a single disk in circulation it is my game. They own the rights to the characters assets etc but the disk is not theres. I didn't buy a license to use the disk. The disk is physically mine to do whatever I please with. This isn't arguable. We are all bound to laws that stop us from simply making copies of work that isn't originally ours but there is a reason I'm not bound to specific practices in what I do with my copy besides reproducing it and stealing parts of it.

And no, it is not a license, please remove said though from your head. You bought the rights to the game and it is your under the CONDITION by law, that you don't try to make money off of it while retaining the orginal copy. Its not a license, that is incorrect.

If pubs have a problem, take it up with Gamestop, attacking the consumer is poor. Its a double edged sword with the BS they pull with there limited edition, DLC, pre order deals (that they specifically do in PARTNERSHIP with Gamestop :roll: ) If there wallets are hurting then they are clearly, clearly doing somethingwrong. As for all this do something about it stuff, I already do, I don't buy content I don't see fit to grace my systems. Too bad for them but now they wish to lock up portions of their game from anyone but the original buyers? That's absolute BS.

Media is different than buying other things used, other things have a depreciated value with ware and tear and also don't have the same longevity that a new one would cost. Like buying a car, you'll run into more problems with a used car, eventually used cars die and new ones have to be bought. With games there is no wear and tear, and one copy won't die so when there is enough used copies to go around no more new ones need to be bought.

Okay, I will concede you 2 are right and its a license to play the game. Is essentially now what you are saying is that only the person who paid for the game is entitled to full content? So if I pool my money with 100 other individuals to buy a game, 1 person is now entitled to the full game regardless of who gets to keep the disk in their possession? It seems like a blurred line of trying to say, "no, we want money from anyone who plays our game regardless of how legitimate they got the game. the problem THQ has isn't with gamers buying used, its that someone is making money and its not them which is quite frankly not a good enough reason to lock content from a legitimate sale.

Also, games have depreciation, the disk is subject to errors and failure too. Yes, a game can last a long time but there is a reason why used is cheaper than new, the game has seen usage and is therefore not gaurenteed to be in perfect working condition for the next buyer. As for used copies, people buy used because they don't want to buy new for w/e reason, its not because they would rather have a used copy than a new one. By the time used copy sales exceed new game sales the worth of the new game and its shelf life would have long expired.

[QUOTE="SakusEnvoy"]

[QUOTE="timmy00"]

"THQ's Cory Ledesma has delivered a blunt message to consumers buying used copies of his company's games: they're cheating the publisher out of money."

I can agree with that.

timmy00

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Exactly, and so long as I keep only a single disk in circulation it is my game. They own the rights to the characters assets etc but the disk is not theres. I didn't buy a license to use the disk. The disk is physically mine to do whatever I please with. This isn't arguable. We are all bound to laws that stop us from simply making copies of work that isn't originally ours but there is a reason I'm not bound to specific practices in what I do with my copy besides reproducing it and stealing parts of it.

And no, it is not a license, please remove said though from your head. You bought the rights to the game and it is your under the CONDITION by law, that you don't try to make money off of it while retaining the orginal copy. Its not a license, that is incorrect.

If pubs have a problem, take it up with Gamestop, attacking the consumer is poor. Its a double edged sword with the BS they pull with there limited edition, DLC, pre order deals (that they specifically do in PARTNERSHIP with Gamestop :roll: ) If there wallets are hurting then they are clearly, clearly doing somethingwrong. As for all this do something about it stuff, I already do, I don't buy content I don't see fit to grace my systems. Too bad for them but now they wish to lock up portions of their game from anyone but the original buyers? That's absolute BS.

Media is different than buying other things used, other things have a depreciated value with ware and tear and also don't have the same longevity that a new one would cost. Like buying a car, you'll run into more problems with a used car, eventually used cars die and new ones have to be bought. With games there is no wear and tear, and one copy won't die so when there is enough used copies to go around no more new ones need to be bought.

Okay, I will concede you 2 are right and its a license to play the game. Is essentially now what you are saying is that only the person who paid for the game is entitled to full content? So if I pool my money with 100 other individuals to buy a game, 1 person is now entitled to the full game regardless of who gets to keep the disk in their possession? It seems like a blurred line of trying to say, "no, we want money from anyone who plays our game regardless of how legitimate they got the game. the problem THQ has isn't with gamers buying used, its that someone is making money and its not them which is quite frankly not a good enough reason to lock content from a legitimate sale.

Also, games have depreciation, the disk is subject to errors and failure too. Yes, a game can last a long time but there is a reason why used is cheaper than new, the game has seen usage and is therefore not gaurenteed to be in perfect working condition for the next buyer. As for used copies, people buy used because they don't want to buy new for w/e reason, its not because they would rather have a used copy than a new one. By the time used copy sales exceed new game sales the worth of the new game and its shelf life would have long expired.

I have no problem with used gamers, but its their content and they have the right to give new users incentive to buy new instead of used copies. If 100 people want to pitch in and buy a new game and it comes with a license key, they can still share it, they just have to share the account that it becomes linked with

My psone games still work... yes they suffer scratches but for the most part generally last long enough to outlast the manufacturing time of new copies.

THQ can go **** themselves. Lower the price of your games if you want everyone to buy new you little cock sucking bastards.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] Its a license since you don't have full control over the content, just the media its on, and they are now giving a lincense away with new games that can be added to an account to be able to use content with you game. Which is completely morale even if they include the content on the disc, since its part of that license. Just because its on the disc doesn't mean you're entitled to it, its just a way to make it easier for people that don't have a good internet connection, so they can get the content with a new purchase.

Media is different than buying other things used, other things have a depreciated value with ware and tear and also don't have the same longevity that a new one would cost. Like buying a car, you'll run into more problems with a used car, eventually used cars die and new ones have to be bought. With games there is no wear and tear, and one copy won't die so when there is enough used copies to go around no more new ones need to be bought.

savagetwinkie

Okay, I will concede you 2 are right and its a license to play the game. Is essentially now what you are saying is that only the person who paid for the game is entitled to full content? So if I pool my money with 100 other individuals to buy a game, 1 person is now entitled to the full game regardless of who gets to keep the disk in their possession? It seems like a blurred line of trying to say, "no, we want money from anyone who plays our game regardless of how legitimate they got the game. the problem THQ has isn't with gamers buying used, its that someone is making money and its not them which is quite frankly not a good enough reason to lock content from a legitimate sale.

Also, games have depreciation, the disk is subject to errors and failure too. Yes, a game can last a long time but there is a reason why used is cheaper than new, the game has seen usage and is therefore not gaurenteed to be in perfect working condition for the next buyer. As for used copies, people buy used because they don't want to buy new for w/e reason, its not because they would rather have a used copy than a new one. By the time used copy sales exceed new game sales the worth of the new game and its shelf life would have long expired.

I have no problem with used gamers, but its their content and they have the right to give new users incentive to buy new instead of used copies. If 100 people want to pitch in and buy a new game and it comes with a license key, they can still share it, they just have to share the account that it becomes linked with

My psone games still work... yes they suffer scratches but for the most part generally last long enough to outlast the manufacturing time of new copies.

Most games now a days don't see shelf life long after 6 months, used is often the only way to get games in stores. It seems ridiculous to have that as a punishment.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Okay, I will concede you 2 are right and its a license to play the game. Is essentially now what you are saying is that only the person who paid for the game is entitled to full content? So if I pool my money with 100 other individuals to buy a game, 1 person is now entitled to the full game regardless of who gets to keep the disk in their possession? It seems like a blurred line of trying to say, "no, we want money from anyone who plays our game regardless of how legitimate they got the game. the problem THQ has isn't with gamers buying used, its that someone is making money and its not them which is quite frankly not a good enough reason to lock content from a legitimate sale.

Also, games have depreciation, the disk is subject to errors and failure too. Yes, a game can last a long time but there is a reason why used is cheaper than new, the game has seen usage and is therefore not gaurenteed to be in perfect working condition for the next buyer. As for used copies, people buy used because they don't want to buy new for w/e reason, its not because they would rather have a used copy than a new one. By the time used copy sales exceed new game sales the worth of the new game and its shelf life would have long expired.

ActicEdge

I have no problem with used gamers, but its their content and they have the right to give new users incentive to buy new instead of used copies. If 100 people want to pitch in and buy a new game and it comes with a license key, they can still share it, they just have to share the account that it becomes linked with

My psone games still work... yes they suffer scratches but for the most part generally last long enough to outlast the manufacturing time of new copies.

Most games now a days don't see shelf life long after 6 months, used is often the only way to get games in stores. It seems ridiculous to have that as a punishment.

its not a punishment, and you can buy new games several years after their release... unless they suck so much no one bought the new copies in the first place which likely means there aren't many used.

Regardless buying a disc gives you a license to use certain content, and buying a new copy might come with a license to add content for it on your account. Yes its attached to the original owner and if you buy a game 4 years later for $10 and they have some add on content for a few bucks its still not like your going to have paid $60 for it.

There is no difference with game content when you buy new vs used so basically the publisher wanted to give some incentive to buying new and differentiate new from used copies other then the condition of the jewel case... I really don't see a problem with this unless your poor and you need 100 people to chip in to buy a game.

[QUOTE="timmy00"]

[QUOTE="SakusEnvoy"] Or they could just release games so good that no one wants to part with their copies. Used game sale problem solved.

Renzokucant

its not a punishment, and you can buy new games several years after their release... unless they suck so much no one bought the new copies in the first place which likely means there aren't many used.

Regardless buying a disc gives you a license to use certain content, and buying a new copy might come with a license to add content for it on your account. Yes its attached to the original owner and if you buy a game 4 years later for $10 and they have some add on content for a few bucks its still not like your going to have paid $60 for it.

There is no difference with game content when you buy new vs used so basically the publisher wanted to give some incentive to buying new and differentiate new from used copies other then the condition of the jewel case... I really don't see a problem with this unless your poor and you need 100 people to chip in to buy a game.

savagetwinkie

You don't see why people would have a problem with additional restrictions and charges?

What they should do is give actual, proper incentives, not the above. Or support the game with proper DLC to make people hold onto the game. Or why not both.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

its not a punishment, and you can buy new games several years after their release... unless they suck so much no one bought the new copies in the first place which likely means there aren't many used.

Regardless buying a disc gives you a license to use certain content, and buying a new copy might come with a license to add content for it on your account. Yes its attached to the original owner and if you buy a game 4 years later for $10 and they have some add on content for a few bucks its still not like your going to have paid $60 for it.

There is no difference with game content when you buy new vs used so basically the publisher wanted to give some incentive to buying new and differentiate new from used copies other then the condition of the jewel case... I really don't see a problem with this unless your poor and you need 100 people to chip in to buy a game.

McStrongfast

You don't see why people would have a problem with additional restrictions and charges?

What they should do is give actual, proper incentives, not the above. Or support the game with proper DLC to make people hold onto the game. Or why not both.