THQ: Buying used games is cheating

I am fine with rewarding those buying a game new like a few extra quests.

I am do not agree with the cheap and cheating action over kick those they buy used in the nut just to get what is the stander for games today. Games with this system is at best a $20 new or used at best.

I will surpport game makers when they are not being cheap.

Gamestop should give out 800 point MS cards/$10 PSN cards for every $50 spent on used games just to be jerks like EA, THQ and Sony with this online pass garbage. I rent and then buy if I like the game but now EA, THQ and Sony are guaranteeing they just lost a customer for any game with an online pass. Most of these games don't even have dedicated servers for gods sake. We consumers pay for half the online experience just by paying an internet bill every month. Least they could do is knock off lag of P2P garbage and pony up for dedicated. EA holds back content from games so they can have a new paid DLC every month(See Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2). Really, how much of our money do they want??? I'm now waiting for special features codes on movies that are rented or bought used. It's all pretty ridiculous if you ask me

Gamestop should give out 800 point MS cards/$10 PSN cards for every $50 spent on used games just to be jerks like EA, THQ and Sony with this online pass garbage. I rent and then buy if I like the game but now EA, THQ and Sony are guaranteeing they just lost a customer for any game with an online pass. Most of these games don't even have dedicated servers for gods sake. We consumers pay for half the online experience just by paying an internet bill every month. Least they could do is knock off lag of P2P garbage and pony up for dedicated. EA holds back content from games so they can have a new paid DLC every month(See Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2). Really, how much of our money do they want??? I'm now waiting for special features codes on movies that are rented or bought used. It's all pretty ridiculous if you ask me

VladJasonDrac

Oh bleh, don't start with that Penny Arcade nonsense.
McStrongfast

How is that nonsense? If you buy a game used none of your money goes to them. So under what definition of "customer" does it apply to someone who buys a used game from GameStop?

How about even if I were to buy this game new I'd still be negatively affected by it.
McStrongfast

As mentioned, people who buy used and people who buy new aren't two warring factions. Myself I buy new and sometimes sell used. To get more money to spend on things like new games.

McStrongfast

[QUOTE="VladJasonDrac"]

Gamestop should give out 800 point MS cards/$10 PSN cards for every $50 spent on used games just to be jerks like EA, THQ and Sony with this online pass garbage. I rent and then buy if I like the game but now EA, THQ and Sony are guaranteeing they just lost a customer for any game with an online pass. Most of these games don't even have dedicated servers for gods sake. We consumers pay for half the online experience just by paying an internet bill every month. Least they could do is knock off lag of P2P garbage and pony up for dedicated. EA holds back content from games so they can have a new paid DLC every month(See Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2). Really, how much of our money do they want??? I'm now waiting for special features codes on movies that are rented or bought used. It's all pretty ridiculous if you ask me

CajunShooter

You realize most of the time we gamers are the servers. Peer to Peer means we are hosting matches on our internet connection. Means we get more lag if someone has a slower connection. Means more time quitting games and going back to lobbys and finding good connections. Means we are helping pay for "their" online servers by just paying our internet bill. Maybe they should pay us a few dollars for using our connections to host their game servers.

I would aslo add that someone that bought the game new already paid for a portion of the online. When people sell the game they quit playing the game. Someone buys it used and it doesn't add more people to the games online community. it already lost the person that bought it new. So the company gets an extra $10 even though there isn't any more people making the community larger or adding extra use to the server. It's greed pure and simple.

[QUOTE="VladJasonDrac"]

Gamestop should give out 800 point MS cards/$10 PSN cards for every $50 spent on used games just to be jerks like EA, THQ and Sony with this online pass garbage. I rent and then buy if I like the game but now EA, THQ and Sony are guaranteeing they just lost a customer for any game with an online pass. Most of these games don't even have dedicated servers for gods sake. We consumers pay for half the online experience just by paying an internet bill every month. Least they could do is knock off lag of P2P garbage and pony up for dedicated. EA holds back content from games so they can have a new paid DLC every month(See Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2). Really, how much of our money do they want??? I'm now waiting for special features codes on movies that are rented or bought used. It's all pretty ridiculous if you ask me

CajunShooter

You know what the real issue I have is? The pubs and devs expect me to care about there bottom line but somehow they do not have to care about mine. After thinking about this I am fine with THQ doing this but why is it that they can feel cheated for a used game but I cannot feel cheated for buying a product I don't value at $60? Iif I am suspose to give a damn about whether they make money I can live with that on the condition that its not a one sided relationship. Don't nickle and dime my ass and then ***** when I find cheaper alternatives. Its not my fault in the face of XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, DS, PSP, Iphone, PC games, and the Wii the devs all flocked to the PS3/360, fed there target audience with more games than they can realistically afford despite wanting to play while avoiding other avenues and are now suffering the consequences while letting Gamestop cut into their margins. Don't pass that crap to me like its my doing. You want me to give a damn about ya? I am willing but don't expect it to be a one sided relationship because remember, you need me, I DON'T need you so you'd best try not to piss me off cause if we leave you ARE screwed.

Penny Arcade ... is there nothing they cannot do?

Tychos Comments .... (not mine)

I had a different reaction to the "fightin' words" of THQ's Cory Ledesma than most. I have a different reaction to lots of things, probably. But this in particular.

The idea that THQ is somehow "disrespecting customers" with this kind of rhetoric misunderstands the situation as completely as it is possible to do so. In a literal way, when you purchase a game used, you are not a customer of theirs. If I am purchasing games in order to reward their creators, and to ensure that more of these ingenious contraptions are produced, I honestly can't figure out how buying a used game was any better than piracy. From the the perspective of a developer, they are almost certainly synonymous.

It's exceedingly rare that I purchase a game from Gamestop these days. I got tired of being harangued for trying to buy products there, or being told that they didn't have a product when they did, or going across the street to Best Buy or Target or Fred Meyer and finding fifty copies of the game I was trying to buy heaped up like some heathen altar to commerce. There's more, besides. At some point in the last few years, I became incredibly uncomfortable with the used games market.

I don't think Online Codes that gate access to multiplayer are a particularly good idea, just watching the kinds of threads it generates - but that's exactly what Xbox Live does, for every game on the platform. Sony's considering codes as well, but they're getting it coming and going: they've committed themselves to a dedicated server infrastructure for first party titles, and multiplayer is "free," so a used copy of a Resistance or an Uncharted 2 is a worst case scenario. I prefer an approach along the lines of the Flashback Pack for the second Gears of War - something fun and extra, that feels like a reward. More treat than trick.

I traded in games for a long time, there's probably comics somewhere in the archive about it - you can imagine how quickly my cohort and I consume these things. It was sort of like Free Money, and we should have understood from the outset that no such thing exists. You meet one person who creates games for a living, just one, and it becomes very difficult to maintain this virtuous fiction.

You know what the real issue I have is? The pubs and devs expect me to care about there bottom line but somehow they do not have to care about mine. After thinking about this I am fine with THQ doing this but why is it that they can feel cheated for a used game but I cannot feel cheated for buying a product I don't value at $60? Iif I am suspose to give a damn about whether they make money I can live with that on the condition that its not a one sided relationship. Don't nickle and dime my ass and then ***** when I find cheaper alternatives. Its not my fault in the face of XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, DS, PSP, Iphone, PC games, and the Wii the devs all flocked to the PS3/360, fed there target audience with more games than they can realistically afford despite wanting to play while avoiding other avenues and are now suffering the consequences while letting Gamestop cut into their margins. Don't pass that crap to me like its my doing. You want me to give a damn about ya? I am willing but don't expect it to be a one sided relationship because remember, you need me, I DON'T need you so you'd best try not to piss me off cause if we leave you ARE screwed.

ActicEdge

Devs need to learn how to appropriately price games.

I see where they are coming from but their online pass solves the issue anyway. Don't see why they needed to say that.

The solution is easy. Online multiplayer could require an activation code to play. A new copy of the game comes with the activation code. A used copy requires the gamer to download it offline for $5.

So is Gamefly run by Satan?Head_of_games

I easily see where they're coming from. considering the ever-rising development costs. People think the online passes redeem this but that's considering every gamer bought the said game specifically for online use. A lot of people are here are saying they should make their games cheaper, when more than a decade ago games had cost up to $90.

Making bad games is worse.IronBass

agreed

I easily see where they're coming from. considering the ever-rising development costs. People think the online passes redeem this but that's considering every gamer bought the said game specifically for online use. A lot of people are here are saying they should make their games cheaper, when more than a decade ago games had cost up to $90.

mo0ksi

From going to into a business major.

I understand there side. But i still don't see a legit reason to go into say gamestop and pay 60 for game instead of 30.

The problem with the gaming idustury right now companys are over spending on games. Most games are looking at a 30-50 million cost of production. And in the case every game has to sell over 1 million copies to make a profit. Some games aren't doing that.

What they really need to do is get their costs in hand and stop blaming the consumer becuase they are spending more money than they are able to clear a profit with

I actually agree that the developers should be getting paid for their hard work. However in my opinion they are going after the wrong people for a couple reasons. First the customer is always right especially when you are dealing in luxury entertainment goods. Second in the U.S. under the First Sale Doctrine the purchaser is allowed to transfer (sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained (purchased). This is why they make these comments and try these tactics because lawfully at least in the U.S. where most of this is taking place anyway (Gamestop) there is nothing they can do about it.

I don't understand why the biggest game publishers who are the ones beating the drum on this issue (EA, THQ) and any others with such qualms don't just band together and form their own videogame shops around the country. Sure it would cost some serious money but obviously there is some serious money to be made here. They should be going after Gamestop not the consumer. If they had their own shops they could cut out the middle man, keep within the First Sale Doctrine, and make all of the money they are losing up. Guess its just alot easier to pick on the little guy than try to go up against the corporation that is apparently running these other company's into the ground all while pandering to them at every major game's release with the best preorder bonus's so that Gamestop can make a killing off the interest all of that preorder money generates. :roll:

nosedive7

Very good post Nose Dive.

This is exactly why Capitalism works because if EA, THQ and Activision want some of the preowned market pie all they have to do is open small game shops that sell New and used games. This would mean that they would also make more of their own money when they sell a copy of their own New game and they would make a ton of money selling used games. They could also have employees trying to push their games over competitors games. IMO this would be a win win for EA or Activision but of course its much easier to moan and whine about people who are doing nothing wrong, the used game buyers. This arrogant stance of "I deserve or am entitled to some more of your money" is really getting annoying. A used copy of a game no longer belongs to the publisher so they don't deserve a dddd thing.

How is that nonsense? If you buy a game used none of your money goes to them. So under what definition of "customer" does it apply to someone who buys a used game from GameStop?Teufelhuhn

The point I'm trying to make is that you never cease being a potential customer. I am not a customer, but I could have been. But obviously THQ thinks this move is financially viable despite ruffling some feathers.

How so?Teufelhuhn

1. Make eight Conquest and Rush maps.
2. Make five of each available at launch, render the rest inaccessible.

It's first now, approximately six months after release, that (so called) VIP members are allowed to play the maps EA locked away.
(White Pass Rush could've remained locked...)

Of course they're not warring factions. But this isn't about the people, it's about the cold hard economic facts of the situation. And the fact is that used video games have a very similar value to new copies due to the medium.

Teufelhuhn

Yeah you have a point there. There's no discernible difference between new and used, so why go with the more expensive option? It doesn't matter if they lower the price of new games, it'll always be cheaper to buy used. Devaluing used games is one solution I guess, but I don't like the implementations or implications of it.

What if this is where it starts and in the future the entire game gets tied to a single account? That's no good. That's no good at all. People used to doomsday about DLC. And look what happened.

The current state of the industry has made me extremely cynical.

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"]

I easily see where they're coming from. considering the ever-rising development costs. People think the online passes redeem this but that's considering every gamer bought the said game specifically for online use. A lot of people are here are saying they should make their games cheaper, when more than a decade ago games had cost up to $90.

locopatho

Actually it is.

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="mo0ksi"]

I easily see where they're coming from. considering the ever-rising development costs. People think the online passes redeem this but that's considering every gamer bought the said game specifically for online use. A lot of people are here are saying they should make their games cheaper, when more than a decade ago games had cost up to $90.

Espada12

Actually it is.

I wonder if Tycho has ever waited to get a game after a price drop. Buying used is a potential loss in revenue, but so is buying a game at a discount. To a much lesser degree, but still. It's like half piracy, I say as a pokey joke.

Bringing up Xbox Live...it is much too late to even bother thinking about doing something about that even if you think it's dumb. This however, is just starting. This is the time where people who oppose these types of practices should react.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Let them get their costs under control then. Not our fault they spend a bazillion dollars on each game.locopatho

Actually it is.

Agh! I was just typing up basically this whole conversation. Curse you both.

Guess I'll say that I agree with everything locopatho is saying.

The thing that does make me leery of the industry is all the talks of subscription based games.

I see why all the rumors are coming up. As across the board in the past quaters not on was been making a ton of money.

EA has been trying out this 10 dollar online pass thing, but that has been failing.

Another issue they are starting to hit. Is throwing 10 plus big games in a window of 3 months

buying used doesnt 'cheat the publisher' as much as it empowers the consumer...

its called the 'free market economy'... if you cant deal with all of its intricacies, then dont bother entering it...

these publishers/devs complaining about a staple of economy are really starting to irk me... screw them

LOL, oh THQ, never ceases to amaze me, why?

I suppose making good games IS hard.

But again, that copy has already been sold and they've made their money. Absolutely no way to prove a sale was lost.

And instead of going after GameStop, the people who are causing them to lose money, they go after gamers. Classy move, guys.

I wonder how much stores make off selling new games. Who know they may not make that much off them.

Did the movie industry ever do this? The comic industry? The music industry? The book industry?

I wonder how much stores make off selling new games. Who know they may not make that much off them.

wiouds

they make 17 dollars off 60 dollar games. The other 43 goes back to the publisher

they make 17 dollars off 60 dollar games. The other 43 goes back to the publisher

James161324

Can stores that sell only games live off that much?

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

You know what the real issue I have is? The pubs and devs expect me to care about there bottom line but somehow they do not have to care about mine. After thinking about this I am fine with THQ doing this but why is it that they can feel cheated for a used game but I cannot feel cheated for buying a product I don't value at $60? Iif I am suspose to give a damn about whether they make money I can live with that on the condition that its not a one sided relationship. Don't nickle and dime my ass and then ***** when I find cheaper alternatives. Its not my fault in the face of XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, DS, PSP, Iphone, PC games, and the Wii the devs all flocked to the PS3/360, fed there target audience with more games than they can realistically afford despite wanting to play while avoiding other avenues and are now suffering the consequences while letting Gamestop cut into their margins. Don't pass that crap to me like its my doing. You want me to give a damn about ya? I am willing but don't expect it to be a one sided relationship because remember, you need me, I DON'T need you so you'd best try not to piss me off cause if we leave you ARE screwed.

Teufelhuhn

The title says it all. We feel cheated out of a sale. Why the hell do I care about that? I'm sorry but they care otherwise there would be no need to have made a comment about this practice. Anticipating the opposite (which should be expected) andnot caring aren't the same thing at all.

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="mo0ksi"]

I easily see where they're coming from. considering the ever-rising development costs. People think the online passes redeem this but that's considering every gamer bought the said game specifically for online use. A lot of people are here are saying they should make their games cheaper, when more than a decade ago games had cost up to $90.

Espada12

Actually it is.

It actually isn't. I don't have any say what so ever. If I had my way there would not be 3 resistance game, 5 COD games, 3 gears games, 4 battlefield games, 2 killzones, etc all in the same genre competing for the same persons money based off of huge budgets. I didn't make that decision, the one's in charge did, don't pretend like we get to actually choose the content we get.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Let them get their costs under control then. Not our fault they spend a bazillion dollars on each game.ActicEdge

Actually it is.

It actually isn't. I don't have any say what so ever. If I had my way there would not be 3 resistance game, 5 COD games, 3 gears games, 4 battlefield games, 2 killzones, etc all in the same genre competing for the same persons money based off of huge budgets. I didn't make that decision, the one's in charge did, don't pretend like we get to actually choose the content we get.

Did the movie industry ever do this? The comic industry? The music industry? The book industry?

PannicAtack

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Actually it is.

nintendog66

It actually isn't. I don't have any say what so ever. If I had my way there would not be 3 resistance game, 5 COD games, 3 gears games, 4 battlefield games, 2 killzones, etc all in the same genre competing for the same persons money based off of huge budgets. I didn't make that decision, the one's in charge did, don't pretend like we get to actually choose the content we get.

Thank you for reinforcing my point (3 halo games, Wars is a different genre), I didn't at all ask for all these games and for them to be this expensive. they just decided to do it. Not my fault.

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

That's a bogus comparison. Car makers don't need to artificially devalue used cars because they lose value on their own. A used car is often worth less than half of what it was bought for after a few years and 50k miles. In fact it loses about a 25-30% of its value the second it rolls off the lot. Games aren't the same...it's just data, and as long as the disc works you get the same exact data on a used copy that you get on the old. There'sprobably a small bit of value lost due to piece of mind, but apparently that's only worth about 5 bucks based on GameStop's used game prices.

Games are already given value artificially through copyrights (without them everyone could just freely copy and distribute them driving the cost down to zero), so it doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me to artificually devalue used games. And besides...it's not like THQ even has to care about anybody upset about this because they buy used games since those people weren't giving them any money anyway.

savagetwinkie

No, they aren't giving bonuses to first buy owners at all. They're just making it so first time buyers get all of the game content, and then they're stripping it down for used buyers. There are no bonuses whatsoever in this case.

The tradition continues of gamers not giving a damn about the publishers and developers of their games, while also expecting to be catered to the utmost extreme. rolo107

Isn't this how all consumers are? The customer is always right, something THQ seems to have forgotten...

Buying used games is just as bad as piracy. No, scratch that: Buying used games is even worse than piracy! Sound far-fetched? Let's look at the facts:

-You pirate a game. The publisher gets 0$, the crack group that released the game also gets 0$. Plus, you can't really play online because they may ban your account, therefore your illegal copy doesn't put more strain on the company's servers.

-You buy a used game. The publisher gets 0$ again, but this time you've actually helped fund the system that deprives publishers of their share, thus keeping it alive and profitable. In addition to that, your copy includes online gameplay, which the publisher is obliged to provide (as well as support and patches), even though you've given them no money whatsoever!

So yeah, THQ may have said it bluntly, but they are 100% right. Any gamer who really cares about games should buy new, or else it's plain old stealing. If you can't afford the game at full price, just wait until the price drops. If you buy it used, you are even worse than the people who pirate it.

Buying used games is just as bad as piracy. No, scratch that: Buying used games is even worse than piracy! Sound far-fetched? Let's look at the facts:

-You pirate a game. The publisher gets 0$, the crack group that released the game also gets 0$. Plus, you can't really play online because they may ban your account, therefore your illegal copy doesn't put more strain on the company's servers.

-You buy a used game. The publisher gets 0$ again, but this time you've actually helped fund the system that deprives publishers of their share, thus keeping it alive and profitable. In addition to that, your copy includes online gameplay, which the publisher is obliged to provide (as well as support and patches), even though you've given them no money whatsoever!

So yeah, THQ may have said it bluntly, but they are 100% right. Any gamer who really cares about games should buy new, or else it's plain old stealing. If you can't afford the game at full price, just wait until the price drops. If you buy it used, you are even worse than the people who pirate it.

alexandros1313

[QUOTE="rolo107"]The tradition continues of gamers not giving a damn about the publishers and developers of their games, while also expecting to be catered to the utmost extreme. Vari3ty

Isn't this how all consumers are? The customer is always right, something THQ seems to have forgotten...

the customer isn't always right realistically, THQ has the right to do this, what I don't understand is why they think whining to us about being cheated should do anything more than piss us off. Excuse me but you aren't haven't content locked away from you because you didn't buy a new copy as though that is illegal. If your pissed at used games sales don't look at Gamestop or us consumers, if you are losing that much money perhaps YOU'RE the problem.

Buying used games is just as bad as piracy. No, scratch that: Buying used games is even worse than piracy! Sound far-fetched? Let's look at the facts:

-You pirate a game. The publisher gets 0$, the crack group that released the game also gets 0$. Plus, you can't really play online because they may ban your account, therefore your illegal copy doesn't put more strain on the company's servers.

-You buy a used game. The publisher gets 0$ again, but this time you've actually helped fund the system that deprives publishers of their share, thus keeping it alive and profitable. In addition to that, your copy includes online gameplay, which the publisher is obliged to provide (as well as support and patches), even though you've given them no money whatsoever!

So yeah, THQ may have said it bluntly, but they are 100% right. Any gamer who really cares about games should buy new, or else it's plain old stealing. If you can't afford the game at full price, just wait until the price drops. If you buy it used, you are even worse than the people who pirate it.

alexandros1313

You forget one thing, who is to say that I don't use the money I save from trading in and buying used to purchase more games I otherwise wouldn't? Who's tosay that I wouldn't ever have purchased any of their products new if I didn't have a chance to try them out used? As far as being worse than pirates is concerned how about this. I don't get a sandwhich frommy friend. I also don't get a sandwhich from the grocery store that makes and sells sandwhiches. Therefore, they are both equally bad because I don't get a sandwhich either way. that's essentially your logic.

What does this whole "buy new or you won't get all the content" mean when the game stops being actually made and you need the used games market in order to get the game at all?PannicAtack

Who cares, not there problem. Honestly, congrats to them for nickle and diming people, its fair game, but hey, at the same time if they feel I'm no better than a pirate, I might as well save me the coin and pirate the game then right? They don't see a difference. a a brainless comment that is equating used to piracy. Cause you know if I pirated it all they would complain to despite there being no actual difference.