THQ: Buying used games is cheating

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Let them get their costs under control then. Not our fault they spend a bazillion dollars on each game.WhiteKnight77

Actually it is.

Exactly. Gamers do at least 2 things that boost the prices of games, They demand that games have features that have to be licensed (or the more expensive route, developed by the developer themselves) like physics. They want little sparks flying off fires (particle acceleration in pyhsics) or bits and pieces of airplane breaking off of planes when dogfighting. Game engines themselves have to be licensed (again cheaper than having to develop one). Gamers want motion blur, and near photo realistic graphics and creating them all take time and money. Years ago, gameplay trumped graphics and since have done a complete 180 as gamers now want eye popping graphics instead of gameplay. That all costs money.

For many years. MP gaming was the sole domain of PC gamers (I don't count split screen gaming on a 27" TV as MP gaming, but I guess it could be classified as MP) who never paid for being able to connect to game servers even if owned by game companies. Along comes MS with the XBox and introduces XBox Live for console gamers and they ate it up with the yearly subscription price of at least a game (oh, developmental costs of console games is more expensive than PC games as multiple developmental consoles can cost $10,000 or so and development studios need more than one) to access the MS servers for friends lists and DLC (which was added again due to gamer requests/demands) and the Marketplace (added so MS could make more money off console gamers). As noted, MS added stuff to XBox Live as gamers kept buying into it.

Then MS tries to do the same thing with PC gamers by offering Games for Windows Live. It didn't offer anything new for gamers that they haven't already used for at least 10 years. Gamers didn't buy into it and MS was forced to make it free for use instead of a yearly pay to play plan like XBox Live is.

Gamers have the ability to affect changes. If you do not like how games are progressing such as losing features and getting shorter in game play hours (this complaint has surfaced in this thread) or any other reason a gamer can complain about, then it is up to the gamer to not buy any game. Stop buying games and companies will get your message, but the minute someone bought a current gen console game for $60, they publishers got their suckers and had no reason to drop the price of games.

The only entity that loses out when games hit the bargain bin is the retailer selling said games. The publisher has already received their money on the products. Now, if a retailer has to return any unsold product, they get a credit on it and are refunded the money they paid.

Again, if you buy something at a particular price and you are not happy about the price, you are at fault.

[QUOTE="locopatho"]

Nope. Plenty of smaller companies out there making great games for much less than the insane budgets. Didn't "This Is Vegas" just get cancelled after 50 million spent on it? APB gone bust after 100 million spent on it? Crazy amounts, I have no sympathy for them.Espada12

Don't compare mmos to regular games. The average amount for a triple AAA game is still extremely expensive. Which is why most devs who go for triple A games play it fairly safe.

I don't understand your point. Maybe every game shouldn't be extremely expensive? Not my fault they pump tens of millions into graphics...

Punishing people who buy the game new to combat used game sales is also cheating. That includes VIP codes because sharing games with friends has always been part of the gaming tradition.

erglesmergle

im not buying THQ games anymore , despite the fact i buy all games new im punished by this idiotic idea because i own two consoles and want to be able to play it on my both consoles , online pass games = NO buy for me !!

AmnesiaHaze

The above is the only legitimate argument that I have heard thus far in this thread.

All manufacturers of products have issues with secondhand goods whether rightly and wrongly ... especially those selling intellectual property (as the value of what they are selling, i.e. a story/experience, doesn't degrade from owner to owner unlike a car/tv/fridge for example. And just because you can buy a second hand car doesnt mean that the car manufacturers are necssarily happy about it.

If you read the rights of license in books/music/movies they always say "this book/movie/etc is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out, or otherwise circulated without the publishers prior consent" - people and businesses have of course ignored this and the shear weight of numbers has generally stopped the publisher from pursuing their legal rights.

The difference is that now, the game manufacturers/publishers have a way of combatting it, unlike car manufacturers. There is no argument here regarding used game sales for consoles that hasn't already been played out many times over for PC games.

This is why, this and next generation will be the last time you can buy physical game media. In the future it will be Digital Download only, second hand games will be a thing of the past just like on PC. What ever console manufacturer you lube up and bend over for, whether it is Sony, MS or Nintendo are going to back the game publishers all the way because they take a cut of every game sold (which is where the real money is for them - they take a loss on the consoles to make money off games sales - actual console sales are a means to an end to sell games) their support for you as a second hand game purchaser stretches to exactly the same length as a game pirate.

If you are one of those that claims that you will give up gaming if you can't buy second hand games ... don't let the door hit you one the way out. You mean less than nothing to a developer or publisher if they are getting money from you directly!

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Actually it is.

locopatho

Exactly. Gamers do at least 2 things that boost the prices of games, They demand that games have features that have to be licensed (or the more expensive route, developed by the developer themselves) like physics. They want little sparks flying off fires (particle acceleration in pyhsics) or bits and pieces of airplane breaking off of planes when dogfighting. Game engines themselves have to be licensed (again cheaper than having to develop one). Gamers want motion blur, and near photo realistic graphics and creating them all take time and money. Years ago, gameplay trumped graphics and since have done a complete 180 as gamers now want eye popping graphics instead of gameplay. That all costs money.

For many years. MP gaming was the sole domain of PC gamers (I don't count split screen gaming on a 27" TV as MP gaming, but I guess it could be classified as MP) who never paid for being able to connect to game servers even if owned by game companies. Along comes MS with the XBox and introduces XBox Live for console gamers and they ate it up with the yearly subscription price of at least a game (oh, developmental costs of console games is more expensive than PC games as multiple developmental consoles can cost $10,000 or so and development studios need more than one) to access the MS servers for friends lists and DLC (which was added again due to gamer requests/demands) and the Marketplace (added so MS could make more money off console gamers). As noted, MS added stuff to XBox Live as gamers kept buying into it.

Then MS tries to do the same thing with PC gamers by offering Games for Windows Live. It didn't offer anything new for gamers that they haven't already used for at least 10 years. Gamers didn't buy into it and MS was forced to make it free for use instead of a yearly pay to play plan like XBox Live is.

Gamers have the ability to affect changes. If you do not like how games are progressing such as losing features and getting shorter in game play hours (this complaint has surfaced in this thread) or any other reason a gamer can complain about, then it is up to the gamer to not buy any game. Stop buying games and companies will get your message, but the minute someone bought a current gen console game for $60, they publishers got their suckers and had no reason to drop the price of games.

The only entity that loses out when games hit the bargain bin is the retailer selling said games. The publisher has already received their money on the products. Now, if a retailer has to return any unsold product, they get a credit on it and are refunded the money they paid.

Again, if you buy something at a particular price and you are not happy about the price, you are at fault.

If it were still about gameplay, then explain all the clones. Why are there so many games with the same type of gameplay and others changed to offer the same? CoD, HALO, etc. are cookie cutter games that harken back to the same gameplay of Doom and HL. The difference is settings. Just like a car, strip off the body and everything underneath is the same.

Please note: I skipped 19 pages,

I don't really understand. Why is THQ (whoever they are) upset with used game sales? How are they being cheated?

Please note: I skipped 19 pages,

I don't really understand. Why is THQ (whoever they are) upset with used game sales? How are they being cheated?

Mogotoo

Last year, Gamestop raked in $2 Billion worth of used game sales and they do not have to share it with anyone, including publishers. THQ wants money to help support servers and such for gamers who buy used games and play online without paying for the use of said servers or something to that effect.

Making bad games is worse.IronBass

THIS...PLUS charging 60$ for a game that hardly lasts 2 years on console. Consolers move from one game to the next way too soon making all the money you just spent wasted in no time. This is the number one thing I hate about console gaming.

I can understand THQ's frustration at the used game market, especially when Gamestop and EB Games goes out of their way to sell a $50-$55 used game over a $60 new game. Gamestop and EB Games make more profit from used games than they do new. I have heard many reports of how a GS or EBG employee will approach someone with a new game in their hands (and the irony is, the disk isn't even in the box, which makes it used anyway and they still charge full price for it) and sell the unsuspecting person, usually a parent who does not know better, just to sell a used game.

For those who think that games in the bargain bin are losing money for the publisher, think again. Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Gamestop or any other store for that matter do not get stock on consignment, they have to pay for it either at delivery or shortly afterwards. The publishers of games have already gotten their money. If anyone taking a hit, it is the retailer. They reduce it to move it out and make room for new merchandise.

As was said before, if a publisher is running servers for a game that has MP, it does cost money, as does running the websites for the game and support staf for those who have problems running the game, no matter what platform. Development of patches also cost money that the publisher is having to put up. Used games do not help support those costs. If a publisher wants to charge for access to the necessary files for playing online, they should be able to.

Those who are complaining of the high costs of games, it is your choice to buy or not buy. With this latest generation of consoles, the price of games rose, just like they did for the previous generation. Want game prices to go down, stop buying them. If you do not buy games at that price, publishers will stop asking said price. If there is no demand for something, they will do one of two things, reduce the price or not make them. You only have yourself to blame for the high price of games.

WhiteKnight77

Interesting read. I agree with most of what you are saying. I was not aware of the terms of sale between publishers and retailers. Would you have a source for your claim that games are not sold to retailers on consignment? I would really like to read up on this more, that is why I ask.If this is true, when Sony or MS or Nintendo say that they have "shipped" x amount of titles to retailers, that really do mean "sold" to retailers. That would put an end to alot of arguments in SW.

Game prices, in inflation adjusted dollars, have actually fallen steadily relative to the increases technology. Remember the $80-$90 N64 games?

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="CajunShooter"] You do realize a game with 6 hours of gameplay (Uncharted) can cost more to make than a game with 25 or more hours of gameplay (Disgaea). CajunShooter

that is just horrible planning on the more expensive games part. Devs that want to make single player only games should but don't like make it cost so much money. the quality of the game is irrelevant to whether the game will be traded in or no. 6 hours of gameplay simply cannot match 100 hours in a battle over the gamers wallet so why fight that losing battle?

I would rather lose out on some 6 hour epic than lose out on my used games and get nickle and dimed. Not my problem

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

im not buying THQ games anymore , despite the fact i buy all games new im punished by this idiotic idea because i own two consoles and want to be able to play it on my both consoles , online pass games = NO buy for me !!

N3xus9

The above is the only legitimate argument that I have heard thus far in this thread.

All manufacturers of products have issues with secondhand goods whether rightly and wrongly ... especially those selling intellectual property (as the value of what they are selling, i.e. a story/experience, doesn't degrade from owner to owner unlike a car/tv/fridge for example. And just because you can buy a second hand car doesnt mean that the car manufacturers are necssarily happy about it.

If you read the rights of license in books/music/movies they always say "this book/movie/etc is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out, or otherwise circulated without the publishers prior consent" - people and businesses have of course ignored this and the shear weight of numbers has generally stopped the publisher from pursuing their legal rights.

The difference is that now, the game manufacturers/publishers have a way of combatting it, unlike car manufacturers. There is no argument here regarding used game sales for consoles that hasn't already been played out many times over for PC games.

This is why, this and next generation will be the last time you can buy physical game media. In the future it will be Digital Download only, second hand games will be a thing of the past just like on PC. What ever console manufacturer you lube up and bend over for, whether it is Sony, MS or Nintendo are going to back the game publishers all the way because they take a cut of every game sold (which is where the real money is for them - they take a loss on the consoles to make money off games sales - actual console sales are a means to an end to sell games) their support for you as a second hand game purchaser stretches to exactly the same length as a game pirate.

If you are one of those that claims that you will give up gaming if you can't buy second hand games ... don't let the door hit you one the way out. You mean less than nothing to a developer or publisher if they are getting money from you directly!

THe second part of your post is pure speculation, so let's stick to the first one. Please clarify: In the hypothetical case that used game sales were banned and you couldn't buy a game from any publisher unless it was new, what is this alternative you speak of? Would you quit gaming just because there are no used games? What I said stands: If there weren't any used games, 100% of the gamers would buy new but at at different price points.

Let's say that you want to play a game. You go down to the shop and you see Red Dead Redemption 2, but it costs 60$. You only have 30$. What do you do? 1. You buy another game that's been out for a while and the price has dropped or 2. you wait until there is a price drop for RDR 2.

just because you can't wait a bit, you're just as bad as the people who pirate the game because they can't afford it at full price. In both cases, the publisher gets 0$ from both of you.

yourself, when the truth is that you're not paying the people who made the game the money that they've earned.

alexandros1313

You just don't get it, I don't care if I'm "bad", in the eyes of the devs, the devs can suck a lemon if they have a problem with me, I have a problem with them too so we are on equal footing :) Also, your post was speculative, I simply pointed to the far more realistic outcome than your 100% will buy at reduced price idea which is false.The alternatives I speak of are renting, borrowing or skipping the game. Pretty damn simple man, its also simple (in a different context ;) ) to think 100% of people will buy a product still when an alternative is taken away. Never run a business, you'd go under quickly with that logic.

I don't care if I'm as bad as the pirate. Hey would you rather me just pirate the game instead if its just as bad? Atleast if I buy used there is a chance the money I save will go toward other games. If I pirate no one makes money. But hey if you equate them we should all just become pirates, its the same thing ;)

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

I can understand THQ's frustration at the used game market, especially when Gamestop and EB Games goes out of their way to sell a $50-$55 used game over a $60 new game. Gamestop and EB Games make more profit from used games than they do new. I have heard many reports of how a GS or EBG employee will approach someone with a new game in their hands (and the irony is, the disk isn't even in the box, which makes it used anyway and they still charge full price for it) and sell the unsuspecting person, usually a parent who does not know better, just to sell a used game.

For those who think that games in the bargain bin are losing money for the publisher, think again. Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Gamestop or any other store for that matter do not get stock on consignment, they have to pay for it either at delivery or shortly afterwards. The publishers of games have already gotten their money. If anyone taking a hit, it is the retailer. They reduce it to move it out and make room for new merchandise.

As was said before, if a publisher is running servers for a game that has MP, it does cost money, as does running the websites for the game and support staf for those who have problems running the game, no matter what platform. Development of patches also cost money that the publisher is having to put up. Used games do not help support those costs. If a publisher wants to charge for access to the necessary files for playing online, they should be able to.

Those who are complaining of the high costs of games, it is your choice to buy or not buy. With this latest generation of consoles, the price of games rose, just like they did for the previous generation. Want game prices to go down, stop buying them. If you do not buy games at that price, publishers will stop asking said price. If there is no demand for something, they will do one of two things, reduce the price or not make them. You only have yourself to blame for the high price of games.

WardCleaver02

Interesting read. I agree with most of what you are saying. I was not aware of the terms of sale between publishers and retailers. Would you have a source for your claim that games are not sold to retailers on consignment? I would really like to read up on this more, that is why I ask.If this is true, when Sony or MS or Nintendo say that they have "shipped" x amount of titles to retailers, that really do mean "sold" to retailers. That would put an end to alot of arguments in SW.

Game prices, in inflation adjusted dollars, have actually fallen steadily relative to the increases technology. Remember the $80-$90 N64 games?

I have some experience in the wholesale and retail business as a mechanic. Most times, we had to pay for parts as they were delivered though some places would pick up a check at the end of the day on the last delivery. NAPA would put a nice blue box on the wall for oil filters or spark plugs, but those had to be paid for. before we even charged the customer for the merchandise. If a part didn't sell well, we could send it back for a credit or refund (except for electrical parts). One might order 100 spark plugs, but not sold them to a customer, yet they were sold by NAPA and they can count that as units sold.

I also delivered dog food at one time. I had to pick up a check or get an invoice signed that could be paid later (some businesses can pay monthly and this goes for any type of business, it all depends on how the wholesaler and retailer works it out).

Most of this is also Business 101. Supply and demand sets prices. If there are more items available, prices can be lowered. If a product is scarce, prices will be higher.

Think about it, a publisher would not ship games if they were not going to get paid for them. They might not be paid up front, but they will be before the month is out. If Best Buy orders 10,000 (this is a low number honestly, but just a supposition) copies of MW2, they will pay for it, before they are all sold. One thing to remember is that the publisher will not ship to each store, but to a central warehouse where Best Buy then loads a truck for distribution to it's stores, with other merchandise for sale that was previously ordered.

I agree with the sentiment that the number of games that a publisher quotes as sold is to retailers and not to actual gamers.

*edit*

I also get some insight into game developing and sales from the CEO of a development studio.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"]

Nope. Plenty of smaller companies out there making great games for much less than the insane budgets. Didn't "This Is Vegas" just get cancelled after 50 million spent on it? APB gone bust after 100 million spent on it? Crazy amounts, I have no sympathy for them.locopatho

Don't compare mmos to regular games. The average amount for a triple AAA game is still extremely expensive. Which is why most devs who go for triple A games play it fairly safe.

I don't understand your point. Maybe every game shouldn't be extremely expensive? Not my fault they pump tens of millions into graphics...

My point is even really expensive tripe A games don't really come up to 50-100 million, you are making it sound as though they do. But what I am saying is that due to extra costs devs play it safe so they know their game will sell.

I don't care if I'm as bad as the pirate. Hey would you rather me just pirate the game instead if its just as bad? Atleast if I buy used there is a chance the money I save will go toward other games. If I pirate no one makes money. But hey if you equate them we should all just become pirates, its the same thing ;ActicEdge

Nice strawman you've come up with there, good job. If I say that buying used games is just as bad or even worse than pirating a game, that obviously means that I'm saying you should all be pirates. Yeah, makes sense.

Here's what I'm actually saying: DON'T pirate games, and DON'T buy used games. Both practices hurt the people that make the games. Instead, buy your games new. If you think they're overpriced, wait for a price drop, but DON'T buy used. Simple enough?

As for the 'not caring' part, it is precisely why publishers feel the need to add fees for activating the online component for a second-hand game. People think that they can make any sort of decision they like and it won't affect anything, because "other people will buy it". This is exactly the same reasoning that pirates use, "I can't afford it but other people will buy it". It's irresponsible to say the least, and it is because of people who think like that that the rest of us have to suffer through restrictions and DRM.

So by all means, keep buying used games. Who cares if publishers lose money, it's not like it affects me, right? Well I hope you enjoy DRM that ties a game to your account, because this is where this irresponsible attitude will lead us to.

its a recession damn it! we are not super rich like THQ apparently.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]I don't care if I'm as bad as the pirate. Hey would you rather me just pirate the game instead if its just as bad? Atleast if I buy used there is a chance the money I save will go toward other games. If I pirate no one makes money. But hey if you equate them we should all just become pirates, its the same thing ;alexandros1313

Nice strawman you've come up with there, good job. If I say that buying used games is just as bad or even worse than pirating a game, that obviously means that I'm saying you should all be pirates. Yeah, makes sense.

Here's what I'm actually saying: DON'T pirate games, and DON'T buy used games. Both practices hurt the people that make the games. Instead, buy your games new. If you think they're overpriced, wait for a price drop, but DON'T buy used. Simple enough?

As for the 'not caring' part, it is precisely why publishers feel the need to add fees for activating the online component for a second-hand game. People think that they can make any sort of decision they like and it won't affect anything, because "other people will buy it". This is exactly the same reasoning that pirates use, "I can't afford it but other people will buy it". It's irresponsible to say the least, and it is because of people who think like that that the rest of us have to suffer through restrictions and DRM.

So by all means, keep buying used games. Who cares if publishers lose money, it's not like it affects me, right? Well I hope you enjoy DRM that ties a game to your account, because this is where this irresponsible attitude will lead us to.

Buying used games is just as bad as piracy. No, scratch that: Buying used games is even worse than piracy! Sound far-fetched? Let's look at the facts:

-You pirate a game. The publisher gets 0$, the crack group that released the game also gets 0$. Plus, you can't really play online because they may ban your account, therefore your illegal copy doesn't put more strain on the company's servers.

-You buy a used game. The publisher gets 0$ again, but this time you've actually helped fund the system that deprives publishers of their share, thus keeping it alive and profitable. In addition to that, your copy includes online gameplay, which the publisher is obliged to provide (as well as support and patches), even though you've given them no money whatsoever!

So yeah, THQ may have said it bluntly, but they are 100% right. Any gamer who really cares about games should buy new, or else it's plain old stealing. If you can't afford the game at full price, just wait until the price drops. If you buy it used, you are even worse than the people who pirate it.

alexandros1313

I hope for your sake that you won't buy a single used product going forward. That includes your house, car, CD, TV, DVD or anything else.

That is unless you want to call yourself "bad as a pirate".

And do not even try to argue that used games are somehow a special case that is affected more buy it's used market. Any used product is a potential lost sale from the original manufacturer. Games are not different in this.

[QUOTE="alexandros1313"]

Buying used games is just as bad as piracy. No, scratch that: Buying used games is even worse than piracy! Sound far-fetched? Let's look at the facts:

-You pirate a game. The publisher gets 0$, the crack group that released the game also gets 0$. Plus, you can't really play online because they may ban your account, therefore your illegal copy doesn't put more strain on the company's servers.

-You buy a used game. The publisher gets 0$ again, but this time you've actually helped fund the system that deprives publishers of their share, thus keeping it alive and profitable. In addition to that, your copy includes online gameplay, which the publisher is obliged to provide (as well as support and patches), even though you've given them no money whatsoever!

So yeah, THQ may have said it bluntly, but they are 100% right. Any gamer who really cares about games should buy new, or else it's plain old stealing. If you can't afford the game at full price, just wait until the price drops. If you buy it used, you are even worse than the people who pirate it.

JLF1

I hope for your sake that you won't buy a single used product going forward. That includes your house, car, CD, TV, DVD or anything else.

That is unless you want to call yourself "bad as a pirate".

And do not even try to argue that used games are somehow a special case that is affected more buy it's used market. Any used product is a potential lost sale from the original manufacturer. Games are not different in this.

Games are a special case that is affected more by it than other things. or are you saying that movies/music ONLY make money off of sales of discs? cause thats BS, and thats the ONLY thing aside from DLC that game companies make money off of.

And the comparison to a house and car is just laughable, seeing as there NOTHING alike, at all, unless somehow your videogame is made up of thousands of different parts or needs to have maintenance and new parts put in.

Let me say it again, game companines only make money off games sales, they dont sell movie tickets, or have concerts, which is where these other things make money.

Games are a special case that is affected more by it than other things. or are you saying that movies/music ONLY make money off of sales of discs? cause thats BS, and thats the ONLY thing aside from DLC that game companies make money off of.

And the comparison to a house and car is just laughable, seeing as there NOTHING alike, at all, unless somehow your videogame is made up of thousands of different parts or needs to have maintenance and new parts put in.

Let me say it again, game companines only make money off games sales, they dont sell movie tickets, or have concerts, which is where these other things make money.

warmaster670

I do not like GameStop. Hell, I do not even buy used. However, some of these game companies seem to be actively trying to be doucebags, with all of this whinnying, and sense of entitlement they seem to have about themselves as of late. I mean, one thing to give people a motivation to buy new over used. I am fine with that. That is the sort of thing game companies should focus on. I, however, am not fine with game companies thinking they are any different than other product that is sold on the market used. None of the other original manufactures are given a cut with used sales, so what makes video games so damn special?

If the people making these sorts of arguments would at least extended this argument to include other goods (I've yet to seen it), I would at least gives them points for showing some consistence, but nope. Apparently, video games are special.

For the record, even if you disagree with me on that last point in the first paragraph, simple truth of the matter is the law is very much against game companies here, and is very unlikely to change anytime in the remote future, if ever, so it would be better served on their part to put time/energy into things that are much more likely to gain results, such as online pass codes, or push for DD.

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

im not buying THQ games anymore , despite the fact i buy all games new im punished by this idiotic idea because i own two consoles and want to be able to play it on my both consoles , online pass games = NO buy for me !!

N3xus9

The above is the only legitimate argument that I have heard thus far in this thread.

All manufacturers of products have issues with secondhand goods whether rightly and wrongly ... especially those selling intellectual property (as the value of what they are selling, i.e. a story/experience, doesn't degrade from owner to owner unlike a car/tv/fridge for example. And just because you can buy a second hand car doesnt mean that the car manufacturers are necssarily happy about it.

If you read the rights of license in books/music/movies they always say "this book/movie/etc is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out, or otherwise circulated without the publishers prior consent" - people and businesses have of course ignored this and the shear weight of numbers has generally stopped the publisher from pursuing their legal rights.

The difference is that now, the game manufacturers/publishers have a way of combatting it, unlike car manufacturers. There is no argument here regarding used game sales for consoles that hasn't already been played out many times over for PC games.

This is why, this and next generation will be the last time you can buy physical game media. In the future it will be Digital Download only, second hand games will be a thing of the past just like on PC. What ever console manufacturer you lube up and bend over for, whether it is Sony, MS or Nintendo are going to back the game publishers all the way because they take a cut of every game sold (which is where the real money is for them - they take a loss on the consoles to make money off games sales - actual console sales are a means to an end to sell games) their support for you as a second hand game purchaser stretches to exactly the same length as a game pirate.

If you are one of those that claims that you will give up gaming if you can't buy second hand games ... don't let the door hit you one the way out. You mean less than nothing to a developer or publisher if they are getting money from you directly!

If it goes DD only I will stop gaming and Iam sure there will be whole lot more people coming with me. Good thing there will be atleast 1 console manufacturer smart enough to hold on to digital media. I guarantee that who ever is dumb enough to go DD only will pay for it by losing a ton of market share. You don't need to take my word for it just look at the PSPGO. DD only = instant failure. Gaming is not important at all in the Grand scheme of things its merely a way to sit back and relax.

I mostly buy new games and don't sell back any. Only time i buy used is if im trying to hunt down a really old game that is no longer being sold in stores. Never thought used games were bad for the industry though. How come Gamestop and such are allowed to sell used games if this is such a problem then?