Valve, your thoughts on why they hate the PS3?

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

yarou1000

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

It isnt that the hate it, they just cant develop on it.

Gabe hated the PS2 as well.

He is a previous M$ Millionaire, so it makes sense that he wants a system streamlined for his tools.

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

ShadowriverUB

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

[QUOTE="ShadowriverUB"]

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

N30F3N1X

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

Opss sorry i forgot that as a cow i supose to not saing such things :P

Programing a game from PC to 360 is a million times easier than PC to PS3 it seems, therefor Valve is rather upset about it being hard.Jynxzor

Yup, and because they can make a quick buckout ofthat hard work.

Yes, Valve is lazy. Their products are shoddy, badly made and steam is a joke, its worse then PSN. I would pay for PSN I would (with money I earned from my paper route) before I downloaded steam on my computer. Also chess takes no skill, deus ex is copy of doom and Valve is a one trick pony... . OT: Do you seriously believe a company that has produced quality after quality (whether you like game X or not is irrelevant, they sell well, they are reviewed well) is lazy? I am really curious would they be lazy if things were reversed and they produced exclusives for the PS3 only. I mean isnt every single company ever in the world lazy if they produce only for one console?alextherussian

[QUOTE="alextherussian"]Yes, Valve is lazy. Their products are shoddy, badly made and steam is a joke, its worse then PSN. I would pay for PSN I would (with money I earned from my paper route) before I downloaded steam on my computer. Also chess takes no skill, deus ex is copy of doom and Valve is a one trick pony... . OT: Do you seriously believe a company that has produced quality after quality (whether you like game X or not is irrelevant, they sell well, they are reviewed well) is lazy? I am really curious would they be lazy if things were reversed and they produced exclusives for the PS3 only. I mean isnt every single company ever in the world lazy if they produce only for one console?emorainbo

I have no idea what people see on L4D and other Valve titles.The only thing I like about them is Steam.

Why all the hate on Valve? You ps3 guys are a great psych case study for the sour grapes phenomena.

Valve has a smart business model going on. An independent developer can choose for which platform to develop on.

They have an engine and tools that were very much developed for the PC, and they don't think it would be worth it to rewrite everything so that it would perform well on the PS3. The PS3 is a very different environment compared to the PC...it's not surprising that all of the PC developers haven't been very fond of it. Other more console-centric devs (like Naughty Dog) don't have such a hard time with it.

Gabe hated the PS2 as well.

He is a previous M$ Millionaire, so it makes sense that he wants a system streamlined for his tools.

SolidTy

EDIT: Nevermind, found out that the PS2 version of that was developed by Gearbox.

They have an engine and tools that were very much developed for the PC, and they don't think it would be worth it to rewrite everything so that it would perform well on the PS3. The PS3 is a very different environment compared to the PC...it's not surprising that all of the PC developers haven't been very fond of it. Other more console-centric devs (like Naughty Dog) don't have such a hard time with it.

Teufelhuhn

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

yarou1000

Valve doesn't "hate" the PS3. Developing for 360 and PC is just a preference. Same as Naughty Dog and Polyphony developing only for PS3 and not the other platforms.

You crying about them being lazy for not developing on your preferred system is just immature sour grapes. Especially in light of the top quality of the work they have produced, which is recognized by players and critics alike. They are far too proven to be called lazy.

Just accept it, because whining about it won't change anything.

I remember one time they said they hated the PS3 because of the community on PSN. They said the 360 community was "head and shoulders" above them or something.Doolz2024

:lol::lol::lol:

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

ShadowriverUB

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

This

They aren't so unprofessional. They develop for the 360 because its similar to the PC so its easier to port.

[QUOTE="ShadowriverUB"]

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

gamefan274

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

This

They aren't so unprofessional. They develop for the 360 because its similar to the PC so its easier to port.

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

AdobeArtist

Valve doesn't "hate" the PS3. Developing for 360 and PC is just a preference. Same as Naughty Dog and Polyphony developing only for PS3 and not the other platforms.

You crying about them being lazy for not developing on your preferred system is just immature sour grapes. Especially in light of the top quality of the work they have produced, which is recognized by players and critics alike. They are far too proven to be called lazy.

Just accept it, because whining about it won't change anything.

Well those devs are 1rst party. Insomniac and Sucker Punch would be better examples because the option to develop for the 360 is there. ND and Polyphony have to.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Gabe hated the PS2 as well.

He is a previous M$ Millionaire, so it makes sense that he wants a system streamlined for his tools.

nintendoboy16

EDIT: Nevermind, found out that the PS2 version of that was developed by Gearbox.

Ooh...my trap was set as I waited...but you got away.:P

It's no biggie. Like I said, it's all about his tools, and what ports best from PC.

I think Gabe took one look at the code he would have to write to run through teh Cell, threw up his hands and said: "Done!"

Now whether its as hard or inefficient to program as he believed it was now is irrelevent. They already took that stance and said that there wasn't much money to be made on the PS3. They can't change their minds now or they would look stupid.

Valve doesn't "hate" the PS3. Developing for 360 and PC is just a preference. Same as Naughty Dog and Polyphony developing only for PS3 and not the other platforms.

AdobeArtist

Naughty Dog and Polyphony aren't doing anything just as a preference. They are Sony.

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

ShadowriverUB

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

Ehh DirectX isn't really very important. Any decent engine will abstract away the graphics API. It's more about the overall engine architecture. On the PC you have either 1-4 symmetrical cores to work with, which means if you want to use them you only need to split things up a little up. So you might do something like have physics on one core, graphics on another, and everything else on the main core. And on the PC this works great, and on the 360 it mostly works too since you have 3 symmetrical cores. But on the PS3 is a whole different ball game...you have one main core and then 6 SPE's to work with, and the SPE's aren't like normal cores. They favor vector math, and you need to split things up into tiny chunks so it fits in their small local store. So you end up having to design your engine in such a way that most things can be split up into tiny tasks or jobs, and then you throw those jobs at SPE's whenever they're available. So in other words the "let's just put physics on another thread" approach no longer works, and if you don't want your game to die on the table you have to drastically restructure things.

Another big problem is the fact that the RSX usually needs some help from Cell, so you end up having to do a lot of graphics stuff on the SPE's. On the PC and Xbox 360 you would rarely do that sort of thing...in fact on the PC it's very much advantagous to keep as much graphics work on the GPU as possible. This is because on the PC it's more expensive for the CPU to "talk" to the GPU.

Too hard to develop for. I mena seriously, who would want to develop for the guy who said this?

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" - Kaz Hirai.

Also, Valve is mostly a PC developer, NOT 360.

Left 4 Dead 2 is garbage, the engine is starting to look outdated and the only games i like of Valve i have on Steam (Counter Strike Source & Half Life 2)

Does it matter if they develop for PS3? or if they stopped console development altogether? not IMO, because they arent exactly flooding the market with new and exciting products are they?, i never got the hype for Valve, sure Half Life 2 and Counter Strike are good but what else have they done that made you go "wow, Valve is teh best dev eva!!!"

[QUOTE="yarou1000"]

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

ShadowriverUB

They do 360 exclusive becouse of DX, did they ever made something without DX?

Yes, Valve is lazy. Their products are shoddy, badly made and steam is a joke, its worse then PSN. I would pay for PSN I would (with money I earned from my paper route) before I downloaded steam on my computer. Also chess takes no skill, deus ex is copy of doom and Valve is a one trick pony... . OT: Do you seriously believe a company that has produced quality after quality (whether you like game X or not is irrelevant, they sell well, they are reviewed well) is lazy? I am really curious would they be lazy if things were reversed and they produced exclusives for the PS3 only. I mean isnt every single company ever in the world lazy if they produce only for one console?alextherussian

[QUOTE="alextherussian"]Yes, Valve is lazy. Their products are shoddy, badly made and steam is a joke, its worse then PSN. I would pay for PSN I would (with money I earned from my paper route) before I downloaded steam on my computer. Also chess takes no skill, deus ex is copy of doom and Valve is a one trick pony... . OT: Do you seriously believe a company that has produced quality after quality (whether you like game X or not is irrelevant, they sell well, they are reviewed well) is lazy? I am really curious would they be lazy if things were reversed and they produced exclusives for the PS3 only. I mean isnt every single company ever in the world lazy if they produce only for one console?SparkyProtocol

Yes, Valve is lazy. Their products are shoddy, badly made and steam is a joke, its worse then PSN. I would pay for PSN I would (with money I earned from my paper route) before I downloaded steam on my computer. Also chess takes no skill, deus ex is copy of doom and Valve is a one trick pony... . OT: Do you seriously believe a company that has produced quality after quality (whether you like game X or not is irrelevant, they sell well, they are reviewed well) is lazy? I am really curious would they be lazy if things were reversed and they produced exclusives for the PS3 only. I mean isnt every single company ever in the world lazy if they produce only for one console?alextherussian

Why is Steam a joke? Dont make up lies.

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

yarou1000

the Emotion Engine has a lot of 'untapped potential', but developers have to be pragmatic as well.

Time, costs, resources...

It's not only technology itself that makes it successful these are other things you have to consider just as important.

Left 4 Dead 2 is garbage, the engine is starting to look outdated and the only games i like of Valve i have on Steam (Counter Strike Source & Half Life 2)

Does it matter if they develop for PS3? or if they stopped console development altogether? not IMO, because they arent exactly flooding the market with new and exciting products are they?, i never got the hype for Valve, sure Half Life 2 and Counter Strike are good but what else have they done that made you go "wow, Valve is teh best dev eva!!!"

dachase

they don't care. Valve seems to be doing well with out the PS3.

Well u might call it lazy, i call it smart.

Valve make a game for PC

20% more effort is required to make it on 360 for 40% more profit - ok

60% more effort required to make it on PS3 for 40% more profit - Not worth it.


Obviously not realy numbers, but you get the idea. They have streamlined tools that work for PC and are easy to move to 360. Why would they bust their gut to bring it so PS3 for a proft that doesnt outweigh the effort in the first place?

.. To be honest consoles in general are a afterthought to their main platform.. The pc.. Just look at the updates they have released for TF2, and L4D that are absent on the consoles.. sSubZerOo

I believe that had more to do with Sony and/or Microsoft (they never specified) wanting to charge money for those FREE updates...

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/166408/valve-wants-free-team-fortress-2-expansions/

Either way last I heard an update for TF2 Xbox 360 was in the works and they would be getting the update eventually.

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

yarou1000

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

yarou1000

There is so much untapped potential in the PS3, and Valve instead chose to work with the XBox 360 which except for RAM is a system with weaker parts...

i think valve is just being lazy, your thoughts SW?

yarou1000

escept for ram 360 is weaker?

sorry no the gpu in the 360 is simple fact better regardless of suppliment from the cell its still weaker then the 360 gpu, its online is better as well...so yeah cpu is all the ps3 has, and to get any thing valve makes onto it its gonna take years of rewriting all their tools and software.