Why would anyone not own a gaming PC?

I've never seen persistence like this before, I can't believe its so hard to get people may not be interested in PC gaming and its exclusives, is it really that hard :?

FIipMode

We welcome you with open arms. :cry: We want you to experience the epicness that is Stalker, Starcraft 2, Penumbra, Dawn of War... :(

The main turn off for me is having to upgrade my computer all the time. But i do think pc games are the best.

The main turn off for me is having to upgrade my computer all the time. But i do think pc games are the best.

martinX3X

If you build well, that can be put off for a lot longer. It also depends on if you always want the highest settings from every game.

I still game very well after 2 years on my current rig, with no upgrades.

Budget builders will likely upgrade sooner than a high-end builder.

If Nasa was comprised of Consolites, we'd never have ventured to the moon. Broaden your horizons.

WhenCicadasCry

If NAsa was comprised of Hermits, we'd never venture to the moon, because hermits cant get off their pedestals. Broaden your horizons.

The main turn off for me is having to upgrade my computer all the time. But i do think pc games are the best.

martinX3X

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

Money, most people dont like to spend it.

Sandvichman

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]that rig sucks try harderVandalvideo

How can it "vastly outperform" consoles if, by your own admission, may only run modern games at settings "comparable" to consoles?

I've never seen persistence like this before, I can't believe its so hard to get people may not be interested in PC gaming and its exclusives, is it really that hard :?

FIipMode

Both have their costs and each system have their good games, and that's of course subjective. PCs may have a larger library, but quantity does not always equal quality. Many of the PC games available might not interest others. That and considering that not many gamers are rich or have money leaking out their wallets, it's not like one would be able to get every PC or console game in existence anyways, and would probably have to get a select amount of games from a Wii, PS3, 360, DS, PSP, or PC.

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]

I've never seen persistence like this before, I can't believe its so hard to get people may not be interested in PC gaming and its exclusives, is it really that hard :?

WhenCicadasCry

We welcome you with open arms. :cry: We want you to experience the epicness that is Stalker, Starcraft 2, Penumbra, Dawn of War... :(

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]

I've never seen persistence like this before, I can't believe its so hard to get people may not be interested in PC gaming and its exclusives, is it really that hard :?

WhenCicadasCry

We welcome you with open arms. :cry: We want you to experience the epicness that is Stalker, Starcraft 2, Penumbra, Dawn of War... :(

Awesome games, but like I said I just don't have the money you know? If I spend a few hundred bucks on just building the PC...then I have to add more expense for the cost of atleast a few the great games I'll need to try...then don't forget essential PC accessories and when its all said and done I don't see how I'm anywhere under $800, so from a gaming stand point think how many great games $800 could get me on a 360 or PS3.

I love the hypocrisy in these threads.. when A pc gamer boast about how much he likes pc gaming hes called a "elitist" but when a 360/ps3 gamer make fun of each other.. claiming they are better/superior than the other platform its ok.. lets not forget what happens when the Wii comes into the picture..

[QUOTE="martinX3X"]

The main turn off for me is having to upgrade my computer all the time. But i do think pc games are the best.

Dynafrom

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]

I've never seen persistence like this before, I can't believe its so hard to get people may not be interested in PC gaming and its exclusives, is it really that hard :?

TacticalDesire

We welcome you with open arms. :cry: We want you to experience the epicness that is Stalker, Starcraft 2, Penumbra, Dawn of War... :(

Awesome games, but like I said I just don't have the money you know? If I spend a few hundred bucks on just building the PC...then I have to add more expense for the cost of atleast a few the great games I'll need to try...then don't forget essential PC accessories and when its all said and done I don't see how I'm anywhere under $800, so from a gaming stand point think how many great games $800 could get me on a 360 or PS3.

I understand where you're coming from, but what if money isn't the issue. People shy away from PC gaming for no legitimate reason other then "it doesn't interest me", yet they never give it a chance. They say all their favorite franchises are for consoles, but how do you think those franchises became their favorites? :(

[QUOTE="Dynafrom"][QUOTE="martinX3X"]

The main turn off for me is having to upgrade my computer all the time. But i do think pc games are the best.

NVIDIATI

In reality. Most people already have PCs. The computers I've seen in stores have decent CPUs and RAM (usually 4GB and Quad Core), though the video card is really bad. Thus, to start PC gaming, most people really just need to buy a video card and they are set.

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Dynafrom"] Depends, if you're a cheapskate and buy one of these "$500" rigs posted here, ya you have to upgrade every once and a while. argetlam00

In reality. Most people already have PCs. The computers I've seen in stores have decent CPUs and RAM (usually 4GB and Quad Core), though the video card is really bad. Thus, to start PC gaming, most people really just need to buy a video card and they are set.

Most of those PC's would also need a power supply as the average power supply in a store bought PC can't handle a decent graphics card.

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]

We welcome you with open arms. :cry: We want you to experience the epicness that is Stalker, Starcraft 2, Penumbra, Dawn of War... :(

WhenCicadasCry

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]

I've never seen persistence like this before, I can't believe its so hard to get people may not be interested in PC gaming and its exclusives, is it really that hard :?

DJ-Lafleur

Both have their costs and each system have their good games, and that's of course subjective. PCs may have a larger library, but quantity does not always equal quality. Many of the PC games available might not interest others. That and considering that not many gamers are rich or have money leaking out their wallets, it's not like one would be able to get every PC or console game in existence anyways, and would probably have to get a select amount of games from a Wii, PS3, 360, DS, PSP, or PC.

In reality. Most people already have PCs. The computers I've seen in stores have decent CPUs and RAM (usually 4GB and Quad Core), though the video card is really bad. Thus, to start PC gaming, most people really just need to buy a video card and they are set.

argetlam00

Not true, as the PSu is the major obstacle. The ones they come with are usually awful.

On top of that, most may use low-end motherboards, with bad layouts, or lack of slots for expanding the PC's features. Cases are also an issue, especially when including mid-high end cards, as heat becomes more of an issue, along with space.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"] Some people can't afford to spend a lot on a rig. The $500 one is just fine as it can max out most games today, and will be able to play games on into the future. Sure if you want to keep playing everything maxed out some upgrades are needed. But not everyone feels the need to play at he highest settings all the time, when it still looks much better than what you would get with a console experience.

tempest91

In reality. Most people already have PCs. The computers I've seen in stores have decent CPUs and RAM (usually 4GB and Quad Core), though the video card is really bad. Thus, to start PC gaming, most people really just need to buy a video card and they are set.

Most of those PC's would also need a power supply as the average power supply in a store bought PC can't handle a decent graphics card.

Perhaps, perhaps not. When I upgraded I didn't (this was back 4 years ago).

I understand where you're coming from, but what if money isn't the issue. People shy away from PC gaming for no legitimate reason other then "it doesn't interest me", yet they never give it a chance. They say all their favorite franchises are for consoles, but how do you think those franchises became their favorites? :(WhenCicadasCry

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

In reality. Most people already have PCs. The computers I've seen in stores have decent CPUs and RAM (usually 4GB and Quad Core), though the video card is really bad. Thus, to start PC gaming, most people really just need to buy a video card and they are set.

lundy86_4

Not true, as the PSu is the major obstacle. The ones they come with are usually awful.

On top of that, most may use low-end motherboards, with bad layouts, or lack of slots for expanding the PC's features.

Really? "low-end motherboards"? Like what, can't crossfire? So what? Your post is meaningless. The fact is, you can just upgrade your traditional PC without buying a whole rig.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

In reality. Most people already have PCs. The computers I've seen in stores have decent CPUs and RAM (usually 4GB and Quad Core), though the video card is really bad. Thus, to start PC gaming, most people really just need to buy a video card and they are set.

lundy86_4

Not true, as the PSu is the major obstacle. The ones they come with are usually awful.

On top of that, most may use low-end motherboards, with bad layouts, or lack of slots for expanding the PC's features.

actually most if not all PCs sold in stores like Best buy have a large sticker or notification saying it contains a PCIE 16 slot to add a gfx card.. well atleast in my local best buy..

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]I understand where you're coming from, but what if money isn't the issue. People shy away from PC gaming for no legitimate reason other then "it doesn't interest me", yet they never give it a chance. They say all their favorite franchises are for consoles, but how do you think those franchises became their favorites? :(IronBass

Yeah, you are "not interested" without ever experiencing the features. Sounds like a completely rational judgement call.

Yeah, you are "not interested" without ever experiencing the features. Sounds like a completely rational judgement call.argetlam00

It sounds like that because it is.

We all prejudge (albeit lightly) things when making a decision what to buy.

Unless you own (and have played) every single game and console in history, I'm sure you've made that judgement call many times.

Really? "low-end motherboards"? Like what, can't crossfire? So what? Your post is meaningless. The fact is, you can just upgrade your traditional PC without buying a whole rig.

argetlam00

I already explained why a low-end motherboard can be bad, as often they have awful layouts when wanting to include large GPU's etc. On top of that, they have severely limited expansion oppurtunity. Low-end motherboards are also usually much cheaper, and much more prone to failure when running higher end parts.

How on Earth is my post meaningless? Due to the fact that I poked holes in your idea, as it wasn't a very good idea to start with?

You can upgrade your home PC, but there are many issues, such as the ones explained with the motherboard, the PSU and also cooling and space.

actually most if not all PCs sold in stores like Best buy have a large sticker or notification saying it contains a PCIE 16 slot to add a gfx card.. well atleast in my local best buy..

devious742

Pretty much all modern boards now use PCI X16, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was simply talking about awful layouts on cheaper boards, and space issues.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

I already explained why a low-end motherboard can be bad, as often they have awful layouts when wanting to include large GPU's etc. On top of that, they have severely limited expansion oppurtunity. Low-end motherboards are also usually much cheaper, and much more prone to failure when running higher end parts.

How on Earth is my post meaningless? Due to the fact that I poked holes in your idea, as it wasn't a very good idea to start with?

You can upgrade your home PC, but there are many issues, such as the ones explained with the motherboard, the PSU and also cooling and space.

lundy86_4

PSU may be an issue, may not be. PCs I have seen in stores can be upgraded with graphics cards. I have no idea what yours talking about.

[QUOTE="devious742"]

actually most if not all PCs sold in stores like Best buy have a large sticker or notification saying it contains a PCIE 16 slot to add a gfx card.. well atleast in my local best buy..

lundy86_4

Pretty much all modern boards now use PCI X16, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was simply talking about awful layouts on cheaper boards, and space issues.

Evidence?

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Really? "low-end motherboards"? Like what, can't crossfire? So what? Your post is meaningless. The fact is, you can just upgrade your traditional PC without buying a whole rig.

lundy86_4

I already explained why a low-end motherboard can be bad, as often they have awful layouts when wanting to include large GPU's etc. On top of that, they have severely limited expansion oppurtunity. Low-end motherboards are also usually much cheaper, and much more prone to failure when running higher end parts.

How on Earth is my post meaningless? Due to the fact that I poked holes in your idea, as it wasn't a very good idea to start with?

You can upgrade your home PC, but there are many issues, such as the ones explained with the motherboard, the PSU and also cooling and space.

PSU may be an issue, may not be. PCs I have seen in stores can be upgraded with graphics cards. I have no idea what yours talking about.

argetlam00

PSU will likely be an issue. Total wattage may be fine (more likely, it won't) for a mid-high end card, however it will very likely have an insufficient 12v rail. The are cheap PSU's to drive down the cost of producing these PC's en masse.

They have the option to upgrade, but the majority of the time that option is insufficient in terms of power, or poor PC/motherboard layout.

I have explained it about as much as possible, I don't see how you still don't understand.

actually it depends on the brand.. if you buy from a well known brand like gigabyte or asus.. a low end MB will work..when you really think about it..there's really no such thing as low end MB..the only difference is that they dont have high end features like wireless modem, sli/crossfire,etc

devious742

I'm well aware of that, but in most base-family PC's they are going to use lower-end manufacturers in order to limit prices to reasonable amounts. Some low-end Gigabyte and Asus boards still suffer from poor design and layout because they are not really designed for mid-high end computers. They are designed for run-of-the-mill PC's.

They are of a higher quality than things like ASRock etc, but they are targeted for two very different PC markets (i.e. low-end instead of high-end).

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

PSU may be an issue, may not be. PCs I have seen in stores can be upgraded with graphics cards. I have no idea what yours talking about.

lundy86_4

PSU will likely be an issue. Total wattage may be fine (more likely, it won't) for a mid-high end card, however it will very likely have an insufficient 12v rail. The are cheap PSU's to drive down the cost of producing these PC's en masse.

They have the option to upgrade, but the majority of the time that option is insufficient in terms of power, or poor PC/motherboard layout.

I have explained it about as much as possible, I don't see how you still don't understand.

I've never seen a "poor motherboard layout" from any decent motherboard brand, which most PCs feature. Your just repeating yourself. PSU CAN be an issue if you upgrade to a really powerful card. Yet, it no way needs to be an issue for a card like GTX 460.

Show me a motherboard by a decent brand which won't fit a video card because of layout.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Really? "low-end motherboards"? Like what, can't crossfire? So what? Your post is meaningless. The fact is, you can just upgrade your traditional PC without buying a whole rig.

devious742

I already explained why a low-end motherboard can be bad, as often they have awful layouts when wanting to include large GPU's etc. On top of that, they have severely limited expansion oppurtunity. Low-end motherboards are also usually much cheaper, and much more prone to failure when running higher end parts.

How on Earth is my post meaningless? Due to the fact that I poked holes in your idea, as it wasn't a very good idea to start with?

You can upgrade your home PC, but there are many issues, such as the ones explained with the motherboard, the PSU and also cooling and space.

That's not entirely true. They can have a slower FSB, less slots for RAM upgrades, less SATA ports for HD's or DVD-Writers. Lower end motherboards can also have lower quality capacitors that are more likely to overheat and kill your MB.

[QUOTE="devious742"]

actually most if not all PCs sold in stores like Best buy have a large sticker or notification saying it contains a PCIE 16 slot to add a gfx card.. well atleast in my local best buy..

lundy86_4

Pretty much all modern boards now use PCI X16, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was simply talking about awful layouts on cheaper boards, and space issues.

this is a low end Motherboard.. seems fine to me

price $50

Link

Supported CPU CPU Socket Type AM3/AM2+/AM2 CPU Type Phenom II / Phenom / Athlon II / Athlon64 /Sempron FSB 2600MHz Hyper Transport (5200 MT/s)

Memory Number of Memory Slots 4×240pin Memory Standard DDR3 1333 / DDR2 1066 Maximum Memory Supported 4GB(DDR2) / 4GB(DDR3) Channel Supported Dual Channel

Expansion Slots PCI Express 2.0 x16 1 * PCI Express x16 slot by 16-lane
1 * PCI Express x16 slot by 4-lane PCI Express x1 1 PCI Slots 2

Features Features Integrated ATI Radeon HD 3200(For Microsoft DX 10)
Onboard DDR2 64MB sideport memory
Support G.P.I Technology
1 * WI-FI header, Support WI-FI Technology

[QUOTE="TacticalDesire"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

We welcome you with open arms. :cry: We want you to experience the epicness that is Stalker, Starcraft 2, Penumbra, Dawn of War... :(

WhenCicadasCry

Awesome games, but like I said I just don't have the money you know? If I spend a few hundred bucks on just building the PC...then I have to add more expense for the cost of atleast a few the great games I'll need to try...then don't forget essential PC accessories and when its all said and done I don't see how I'm anywhere under $800, so from a gaming stand point think how many great games $800 could get me on a 360 or PS3.

I understand where you're coming from, but what if money isn't the issue. People shy away from PC gaming for no legitimate reason other then "it doesn't interest me", yet they never give it a chance. They say all their favorite franchises are for consoles, but how do you think those franchises became their favorites? :(

Convenience: you have a single login, and your friends are the same from one game to the next, instead of every developer and/or 3rd party app developer being able to make their own friends list.

Matchmaking: given the players' stats, a central server can arrange games of equal skill, instead of the player having to find servers with players of their own skill and hoping no one more skilled decides to join. This is a tradeoff, as you lose the community aspect of hosted servers.

Certification: titles are tested by the platform vendor before they are allowed to be released, reducing the chance of major issues.

Purpose-built: the UI is designed for use from a couch with a gamepad from power off to power off, so I don't need a mouse or keyboard, and the system includes home theater focused technologies like HDMI-CEC. No reason the PC couldn't do those things, but since no one's demanding them, it doesn't.

There's more reasons why I prefer consoles, of course, but this post will be ignored anyway, so screw it.

I've never seen a "poor motherboard layout" from any decent motherboard brand, which most PCs feature. Your just repeating yourself. PSU CAN be an issue if you upgrade to a really powerful card. Yet, it no way needs to be an issue for a card like GTX 460.

argetlam00

You haven't? "Most" PC's feature higher end brands, when trying to reduce the cost of a system? Really? Chances are many store bought PC's will use micro-ATX form factor as it's cheaper than ATX which brings in a whole new level of limited space.

Check out some lower end boards and look at the layout. Due to being limited in ports for other parts, a GPU (unless low end) will likely take up two slots, which in turn takes up room in the PC.

this is a low end Motherboard.. seems fine to me price

$50

devious742

Again, i'm not saying this is indicative of all store-bought PC's, but it's likely many will be using lower-end main boards to drive down cost, or even worse, utilizing micro-ATX in an already small case.

All i'm saying, is there are many more issues than just upgrading the GPU in a store-bought PC, like Argetlam first stated.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

I've never seen a "poor motherboard layout" from any decent motherboard brand, which most PCs feature. Your just repeating yourself. PSU CAN be an issue if you upgrade to a really powerful card. Yet, it no way needs to be an issue for a card like GTX 460.

lundy86_4

You haven't? "Most" PC's feature higher end brands, when trying to reduce the cost of a system? Really? Chances are many store bought PC's will use micro-ATX form factor as it's cheaper than ATX which brings in a whole new level of limited space.

Check out some lower end boards and look at the layout. Due to being limited in ports for other parts, a GPU (unless low end) will likely take up two slots, which in turn takes up room in the PC.

You just got a 50 dollar board linked. Whats wrong with it?

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

PSU may be an issue, may not be. PCs I have seen in stores can be upgraded with graphics cards. I have no idea what yours talking about.

argetlam00

PSU will likely be an issue. Total wattage may be fine (more likely, it won't) for a mid-high end card, however it will very likely have an insufficient 12v rail. The are cheap PSU's to drive down the cost of producing these PC's en masse.

They have the option to upgrade, but the majority of the time that option is insufficient in terms of power, or poor PC/motherboard layout.

I have explained it about as much as possible, I don't see how you still don't understand.

I've never seen a "poor motherboard layout" from any decent motherboard brand, which most PCs feature. Your just repeating yourself. PSU CAN be an issue if you upgrade to a really powerful card. Yet, it no way needs to be an issue for a card like GTX 460.

Show me a motherboard by a decent brand which won't fit a video card because of layout.

Way to ignore half of his post. And the layout of the motherboard alone is not the issue. The issue is the small case + badly designed motherboard = you have to cram the card in under a HD or other component to fit it in, killing he ventilation, and eventually the card. So, if the terrible PSU doesn't burn it up, the lack of airflow will.

[QUOTE="devious742"]

this is a low end Motherboard.. seems fine to me price

$50

lundy86_4

Again, i'm not saying this is indicative of all store-bought PC's, but it's likely many will be using lower-end main boards to drive down cost, or even worse, utilizing micro-ATX in an already small case.

All i'm saying, is there are many more issues than just upgrading the GPU in a store-bought PC, like Argetlam first stated.

Why is there? This is a cheap, "low end board" yet you find no problems? Why would other boards have problems. I'm still waiting for you to link one and explain yourself.

can't we all just get along

Of course if someone is planning to replace their desktop it would be a great idea to grab up one of those $560 rigs. But I think the point is that most people who aren't PC gaming right now haven't bought a desktop rig in years, and probably have no desire to upgrade to a new one because they only use their computer for light use (or they use a netbook/laptop). It would take a miracle to upgrade a pre-built budget machine bought 5 years ago and get it to run modern games at high resolutions.

Why is there? This is a cheap, "low end board" yet you find no problems? Why would other boards have problems. I'm still waiting for you to link one and explain yourself.

argetlam00

I've explained plenty :?

These issues are well known to PC builders, hence why we don't use store-bought family PC's.

Manufacturers look to drive down costs of building a PC, which means the products they buy must be of a cheaper make, because they are not designed to support mid-high end GPU's (hence why a lont use small form factor cases, and low-end PSU's). Other boards have problems due to their make, such as ASRock, which often are not as reliable as things like Gigabyte/ASUS etc.

The board the poster showed wasn't even in a PC, and is to be bought by people building PC's or for smaller stores who build PC's (i.e. from Newegg). I wasn't even talking about a $50 board, as that's not a bad price for a mid-end PC. Most manufacturers will *not* use these boards.

Many newer store-bought family PC's use micro-ATX boards which is a huge issue on space.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Why is there? This is a cheap, "low end board" yet you find no problems? Why would other boards have problems. I'm still waiting for you to link one and explain yourself.

lundy86_4

I've explained plenty :?

These issues are well known to PC builders, hence why we don't use store-bought family PC's.

Manufacturers look to drive down costs of building a PC, which means the products they buy must be of a cheaper make, because they are not designed to support mid-high end GPU's (hence why a lont use small form factor cases, and low-end PSU's). Other boards have problems due to their make, such as ASRock, which often are not as reliable as things like Gigabyte/ASUS etc.

The board the poster showed wasn't even in a PC, and is to be bought by people building PC's or for smaller stores who build PC's (i.e. from Newegg).

Many newer store-bought family PC's use micro-ATX boards which is a huge issue on space.

Not to mention they use small, terribly designed cases with little to no airflow.

Yeah, you are "not interested" without ever experiencing the features. Sounds like a completely rational judgement call.

argetlam00

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Why is there? This is a cheap, "low end board" yet you find no problems? Why would other boards have problems. I'm still waiting for you to link one and explain yourself.

lundy86_4

I've explained plenty :?

These issues are well known to PC builders, hence why we don't use store-bought family PC's.

Manufacturers look to drive down costs of building a PC, which means the products they buy must be of a cheaper make, because they are not designed to support mid-high end GPU's (hence why a lont use small form factor cases, and low-end PSU's). Other boards have problems due to their make, such as ASRock, which often are not as reliable as things like Gigabyte/ASUS etc.

The board the poster showed wasn't even in a PC, and is to be bought by people building PC's or for smaller stores who build PC's (i.e. from Newegg).

Many newer store-bought family PC's use micro-ATX boards which is a huge issue on space.

Well I dunno man, it wasn't an issue for me when I upgraded to a 7900GT 4 or 5 years ago. I had one of those random desktop store-bought PCs and just upgraded my CPU, RAM and GPU without issue. Didn't even need to upgrade my PSU.

Not to mention they use small, terribly designed cases with little to no airflow.

tempest91

Exactly. Most store-bought PC's are not designed for heavy upgrading.

I'm just not interested in the games. Pretty much all the good games seem to be on consoles. The only PC game I'm really interested in is WoW, and even a 6 year old laptop can run that.

[QUOTE="tempest91"]

Not to mention they use small, terribly designed cases with little to no airflow.

lundy86_4

Exactly. Most store-bought PC's are not designed for heavy upgrading.

Well in the end, lets take worst case scenario, that you do need to upgrade the PSU, motherboard and case. Thats still FAR cheaper than building a WHOLE rig. Should be about 150 for those 3 and then you can pick out a GPU.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Why is there? This is a cheap, "low end board" yet you find no problems? Why would other boards have problems. I'm still waiting for you to link one and explain yourself.

argetlam00

I've explained plenty :?

These issues are well known to PC builders, hence why we don't use store-bought family PC's.

Manufacturers look to drive down costs of building a PC, which means the products they buy must be of a cheaper make, because they are not designed to support mid-high end GPU's (hence why a lont use small form factor cases, and low-end PSU's). Other boards have problems due to their make, such as ASRock, which often are not as reliable as things like Gigabyte/ASUS etc.

The board the poster showed wasn't even in a PC, and is to be bought by people building PC's or for smaller stores who build PC's (i.e. from Newegg).

Many newer store-bought family PC's use micro-ATX boards which is a huge issue on space.

Well I dunno man, it wasn't an issue for me when I upgraded to a 7900GT 4 or 5 years ago. I had one of those random desktop store-bought PCs and just upgraded my CPU, RAM and GPU without issue. Didn't even need to upgrade my PSU.

Well, you were lucky to say the least. I worked in store a few years back and that is only the case for maybe 20-30% of store bought PC's. Some of them can't even house decent graphics cards because of space. Most others needed a PSU upgrade. I'm glad that Asus is finally making PC's as their Desktops seem to be breaking this trend by using decent parts all the way around.