[QUOTE="RK-Mara"]Graphics don't make a great game. Graphics make a great game better.gamingqueen

Yeah designers should stop thinking about adding a wrinkle to a character's face when the combat is repetitve and all you do is kill zillion enemy in a game.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]it's not the system's fault the games on it are below expectations!bugsonglass

It is, actually. Making a console that was hard to develop for wasn't a problem for Sony with the PS2 since the PS2 never saw any real competition at any point in its lifetime. With the PS3, the situation is very different - it is the most expensive console, it's being crushed by its competition, has the smallest userbase that's not nearly as rabid as the 360's, and on top of all that, it's still the hardest to develop for. Where's the incentive for third-party developers to throw any serious support for the system? Couple that with the fact that some multiplatform developers like Pandemic are saying that there's no "mystical hidden power" within the PS3 and you've got a console with way too many problems.

What you wrote is true and it makes me angry in a big way as they've let Microsoft go unpunished for releasing a badly manufactured and broken console (with a ridiculously low average life expectancy).

All they needed to do was launch it at a price point which would allow it to compete with Microsoft's broken console. As others said, now it might be too late.

At this moment in time, I'd rather be forced to send my Xbox 360 in for repair twice a year for the rest of this entire generation, than be stuck with only a PS3.

i much preferred crackdown to saints row, because it was something more than just a rip off of GTA. sure I had fun in SR for about 20 mins, but that was about it. it seems a decent game, but meh, these games arent cheap and i'd much rather have the real thing.OneWingedAngeI

(EDIT) These disappearing spaces are a ridiculousnuisance.

[QUOTE="AlwaysSoft"][QUOTE="monie11k"][QUOTE="AlwaysSoft"]

Can there not be room for more than one well reviewed game in any given genre? Exactly what issue do some of you (whom have clearly never played more than 5 minutes of the game) have with Saints Row? It may have lacked a little something, or felt a little sterile here and there, but underneath, SR was a very enjoyable game and a worthy game in anyone's library. I found quite a few things to not only match the past GTA's in the franchise, but to surpass them as well. I actually hope Rockstar takes a few pointers from the SR team in their development of GTA4.

monie11k

I dont think rockstar needs to take any pointers from volition when its volition who basically cloned rockstars game.

rockstar already had their formula for GTA down when it was 2d.... i dont know how taking what they already had and adding a 3d engine to evolve with the times is necessarily bad...

Of course they could've stuck with the whole top down car chase thing that they pioneered (since you apparently believe there is not really any difference).......... however, I think we'd both agree that it needed to do what Driver had already done to enjoy any real success.

How did they come to this conclusion? In the game Sarge points at a non-interactive background and says "Chief, that's where Cortana is being held. It's 22 kilometers away." as opposed to Goldeneye where Natasha points at a non-interactive background and says "That mountain is 21 kilometers away"?

Because I can pretty much assure you that there is not a single level in Halo3 that is 14 miles long. I doubt every level in the game put together is even half that long.

Although if we're talking about non-interactive backgrounds and implied distances as having any relation to "draw-distance" then I'm pretty sure even games like Doom had a backdrop of Earth from Mars, which is substantially further adistance than a mere 14 miles. Or to get even crazier, I'm sure there are games that date back to the late 70s to early 80s that had you flying in space where the stars in the background could be an implied distance of "light-years" away........

[QUOTE="AlwaysSoft"]

Can there not be room for more than one well reviewed game in any given genre? Exactly what issue do some of you (whom have clearly never played more than 5 minutes of the game) have with Saints Row? It may have lacked a little something, or felt a little sterile here and there, but underneath, SR was a very enjoyable game and a worthy game in anyone's library. I found quite a few things to not only match the past GTA's in the franchise, but to surpass them as well. I actually hope Rockstar takes a few pointers from the SR team in their development of GTA4.

monie11k

I dont think rockstar needs to take any pointers from volition when its volition who basically cloned rockstars game.

Now wait just a moment. Here we have people calling Saints Row's story and attempts at humor to be a travesty, yet praise GTA in those areas in the very same sentence?

Laugh at me all you like, but I actually cracked a smile at a few of the one liners in SR, and found the story fairly engaging in some areas (well about as engaging as "gangsta/rapper drivel can get). Can't really say the same for any of the GTAs. Although I'm sure someone's mentally challengedcousin thought the "Getalife" building was a riot, and someone's teenager found the constant references to the number 69 to be hysterical.

Can there not be room for more than one well reviewed game in any given genre? Exactly what issue do some of you (whom have clearly never played more than 5 minutes of the game) have with Saints Row? It may have lacked a little something, or felt a little sterile here and there, but underneath, SR was a very enjoyable game and a worthy game in anyone's library. I found quite a few things to not only match the past GTA's in the franchise, but to surpass them as well. I actually hope Rockstar takes a few pointers from the SR team in their development of GTA4.

Of course they are important.

For some reason, people that come into these threads seem to think that taking the stance that graphics are important, is exactly the same as saying that gameplay means nothing.

Of course I can still have a fine time playing a game with good gameplay, but graphics just make the experience that much more pleasant and enjoyable. A lot of hardcore gamers invest quite a bit of money in graphics cards and HDTVs for this very reason. To some, a game is just a game. However, to most of us here (the enthusiast crowd), a game is also an immersive experience, and thus, is complimented by having a realistic or artistic look that is not only pleasant to the eye, but engulfs the player that much more into the game's world.

Being an enthusiast of gaming, I can appreciate such things.

If having my screen light up with special effects and magnificent explosions that cause my mouth to drop everytime i blow up a vehicle in GTA makes the carnage that more of an "oh my God" experience, then of course I'm going to say that graphics matter. Exactly how disappointed would you be if they popped out GTA4 on X360 and PS3 looking exactly like Vice City on PS2 (or even Driver on PS1)? Not at all? I call bull.

It's hard to feel sorry for Sony if this is what it has come to. They entered this generation thinking gamers wouldbuy anything they wanted us to buy.

It should have always been about the games first, Sony. If you end up getting another try after this generation is over, I hope you remember that lessonand never forget it.

I find this whole situation to be an arrogant move on Bungie's part.

Not that I don't like Halo, and not that I don't think Marathon, Mythic, or Oni were decent games, but quite frankly, I think Bungie caught a huge break with the Halo franchise, and I don't believe theyr'e the AAA, blockbuster, "anything we touch turns to gold" developers that they think they are.

If I were them, I'd run Halo until I absolutely could not anymore. It's profitable, it ensures the consumers and MS will have another Halo to play at least every 3 years, and it's really all Bungie's fans want out of them.

Now whether they go off and make Oni 2, a strategy game, or (for all i know) a puzzler, I think that whatever the project may be, it's going to be a huge wake up call for Bungie.

A lot more of my argument rests on the merits of the Halo franchise, and why I think it's garnered more sales and accolades than it probably otherwise would have received if the cards had not fallen in the perfect spots, but I will spare you that.