[QUOTE="DAZZER7"]

[QUOTE="opalman"] How can I understand it if you totally ignore the games!!!! I know the online services provides menus, avatars, voice chats, etc. All of these are secondary to the games available on the services. Is it so hard for you to see that PSN and LIVE would be nothing without games? opalman

Wait wait, so you're basing this entirely on which has the better games? Why not just make a thread on that then lol? Which console has the 'best' games is very subjective. Anyway, to fairly and objectively compare the services, you need to compare specifically what each service offers in terms of features. Looking at games is NOT really comparing online services is it now?

The only way games really matter is if the features of an online service are supported by a particular game. I'm a pc gamer mainly, when considering which online service to use say from steam to Xfire or even game ranger, putting actual features aside, I look at which service supports the most games and content. So in that respect, I guess you have a point but again Live wins as its features are supported by all games.

Unless of course you're referring to the actual online features the individual games themselves offer? Like what Killzone 2 offers compared to COD4 does but then that is getting away from comparing what PSN is offering compared to live and is really comparing individual games.

[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]

You don't even know what you're talking about you think those 3 vector units the 360 has are there for nothing? each processor handles 2 threads,those threads are really powerful on par with the SPus,let alone the 48 shader processors inside the Xenos.

Teufelhuhn

My understanding was that the version of the cell in the PS3 is not capable of 'out-of-order' processing like you have described? Also with the 2 hardware threads, using the 2 hardware threads suits certain tasks that dont occupy the full cache etc. Certain tasks can be set up to be processed on each thread where the full resouces are not necessarily used to full capacity. I'm probably not explaining this very well but I'm sure there are times when using 2 threads is better than 1?

[QUOTE="DAZZER7"]

[QUOTE="opalman"] Well, same with games. Games have gone through several generations already. Each generation of games is based on the hadware of that generation. The games you can play on Xbox LIVE last generation looks/sounds a lot worse than this generation's. I don't think you can deny the fact that LIVE and PSN would be nothing without the games. So, as I had said, if the games are based on the hardware, then LIVE and PSN are also based on hardware. Furthermore, think about World of Warcraft or other online computer games. For gamers with a weaker hardware, you will get more lag and framerate issues if you play the games at high settings. opalman

Is this really that hard for you to understand? OK, I'll try and make it simple for you. Break down each online service in terms of its sights and sounds. They are simple visual representations of menus. They barely even use any kind of 3D effect. Rendering the avatars or a custom wallpaper is not going to stretch the hardware of the console. The same goes for the sounds they make.

Chat, in game chat and invites etc is more down to getting all the developers to integrate basic elements into the game, same goes with achievements etc. None of this is restricted by the hardware. This is simply down to how well the 'software' is written, getting 3rd parties to suport it and having good servers at the other end to back it all up.

I'll say it again, none of it is limited by the hardware of the console. kk?

Wait wait, so you're basing this entirely on which has the better games? Why not just make a thread on that then lol? Which console has the 'best' games is very subjective. Anyway, to fairly and objectively compare the services, you need to compare specifically what each service offers in terms of features. Looking at games is NOT really comparing online services is it now?

Without doubt...Battlefield 2!

.

I suppose technically it is last gen but only just and I am yet to see its competitive gameplay surpassed!

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"]

[QUOTE="opalman"]I kinda agree that LIVE and PSN are based on hardware. LIVE and PSN are nothing without games. Games are based on hardware. Therefore, LIVE and PSN are based on hardware.opalman

Is this really that hard for you to understand? OK, I'll try and make it simple for you. Break down each online service in terms of its sights and sounds. They are simple visual representations of menus. They barely even use any kind of 3D effect. Rendering the avatars or a custom wallpaper is not going to stretch the hardware of the console. The same goes for the sounds they make.

Chat, in game chat and invites etc is more down to getting all the developers to integrate basic elements into the game, same goes with achievements etc. None of this is restricted by the hardware. This is simply down to how well the 'software' is written, getting 3rd parties to suport it and having good servers at the other end to back it all up.

I'll say it again, none of it is limited by the hardware of the console. kk?

[QUOTE="DAZZER7"]

...and the supercomputer mentality of the PS3 persists. There are a few of you hardcore cows that cannot seem to wake up to the fact that the PS3s hardware is weak. There is no single graphical technique in Killzone 2 that cannot be done on the 360. Ask anyone who knows anything about GPUs. Dont get started on the cell, its no substitute for a proper dedicated graphics card. The only thing that would struggle on the 360 would be to incorperate lossless audio because of the disk format :lol:

Martin_G_N

Why couldn't those processes that the Cell is running not be done on the Xenos. That is 3 cores, each with 2 hardware threads. Consider these points:

• The Xenos is not already burdened by offloaded processes from the GPU
• It is more like a traditional CPU and hence more flexible
• Given the time and effort Guerilla put into optimising those processes to run on the Cell, the same could be achieved on the Xenos

The Cell is no better at handling multiple threads than the 360 CPU because it cannot do out of order processing. It is still reliant the main CPU. The sound, yeah from what I have read the 360 can't do 7 channel uncompressed audio. Honestly, you really shouldn't get so caught up in the Cell being able to work miracles, of course Guerilla are going to release a video showing how uber it is etc, they're a first party developer and are trying to appeal to exactly someone like you.

I know I have already done this a couple of times in the past, might as well give it another go.

Console memory limitations and streaming explained.

In order to get a giant map to work in limited memory, say a continent or larger, the map is divided into cells containing instances of events and content. Only the cells surrounding the player are loaded into memory, as they move around old cells are removed from memory while new ones are added. With this you can make a game world as big as you want, the only real limits is the development budget and disk storage space. To the player the world seems seamless, they may get a performance hiccup as new cells are loaded every now and then but it appears like a vast world to them.

The problem with this is player interactivity is limited by the cells currently present in memory, on a fixed hardware platform like consoles the interactive distance is likely fixed to the exact range of the loaded cells. Anything outside the loaded area (yellow) is none interactive, likely using low resource place holders like LOD objects until they are in interactive range. Any enemies or buildings outside of the players interactive bubbles don't exist until they are in range.

When a game loads the entire level into memory interactivity is now no longer limited to within loaded cells, anything that's in visible range is interactive. The only problem with this is the map sized is limited by the platforms memory amount; with loading screens between each level.

The higher the average memory a platform tends to have the larger the maps can be while supporting Crysis like interactivity, on PC when 2GB ram is typical even on none gaming systems; games can support Crysis sized maps. But you are not going to get that onto consoles, not without dividing the maps into cells suitable for streaming into 256mb ram, which as just explained would remove a lot of large scale interactivity that has come to be expected from Crysis.

How far back you can scale the graphics is irrelevant if you don't have enough memory to even run the game.

AnnoyedDragon

Brilliant explanation :) and anyone who had played Crysis will understand that there are parts in Crysis where you will target a tank or enemy from across the map with your rocket launcher. You could take that draw distanceout and substitute with LOD objectsbut then that is precisely the point at which it becomes Crysis Instincts!

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]

[QUOTE="chaoz-king"]

OMG... I know this has nothing to do with any thing. But its about sony, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyVh1_vWYQI laughed throught the whole thing.

navyguy21

That had me in tears :lol:

You should check out the apple wheel video afterwards "I just spent 45 minutes typing an email to my friend, I hate keyboards so much" :lol:

I'd be very puzzled if they dont announce something lol. I'll be very disappointed if they sit back and think they've done enough this gen. I really like Sony's attitude of fighting back lately and I bash Sony a lot!

I'm glad to hear some of the original Fallout team are to be involved. I liked Besthdas attempt at dark humour and gore but the original devs were the real sick ones :D

I also pray for better animation. I mean would it kill them to put in a little bodylanguage during a conversation?