What I don't get is why they rip the consumers off by not just including it in the full retail game...

kingman03

1) Fallout New Vegas went gold on the 1st October. The programming part would have been finished well before that, so they obviously got a head start on DLC while everything was tested and finalised... Hence the whole "Should be on the disc since they announced it before release" comments are clearly uninformed.

2) Maybe Microsoft paid to make already planned DLC exclusive. Maybe Microsoft went to Obsidian/Bethesda and offered to fund the DLC in exchange for exclusivity. We don't know the specifics. Speculating would be foolish. We all know Microsoft helped fund EfLC, would they exist without that money? Who knows!

3) PS3 owners getting angry and not buying the game at all is just the worst tactic of all. If Bethesda look at the sales figures and see a big drop in PS3 sales, why should they bother investing in it at all in future?

4) People need to stop feeling so entitled to everything.

5) This is how businesses work.

6) I own a PS3, 360 and a pretty good PC. I got Mafia 2 on 360 because I prefer the console. If the PS3 version got exclusive DLC I would have got it for that, but I think what they did was much much worse. The PS3 got extra content (That Jimmy's Vendetta thing) bundled into the game, for the same price. Then, a week or two later, it appeared on Xbox, but for a price. To me, that's far worse. Maybe it's Microsoft's fault for insisting on charging for DLC, maybe it's the developers fault, maybe Sony footed the bill for it on PS3 and the devs had to get some money back from the 360 version. Either way I refuse to pay for game content when another console gets it for free. Timed DLC I have no problem with, since I own both consoles anyway.

7) Yes, it's probably not permanently exclusive DLC. We all know that. But they can't say that because it's probably in their contract with Microsoft.

8 ) The 360 is just beta testing the DLC?! Really? I don't pretend to understand anything about programming, but surely the Xbox and PS3 are different consoles with different codes which means different bugs? I mean, I read all the time about platform-specific bugs, the most recent being the Castlevania PS3 save wiping thing. I doubt having the game out on 360 for a while beforehand would help with that.

I wonder what they did when they played LIMBO. How many gamers staired at the screen for 10 minutes waiting for the game to start? lol!! I didn't, but I'm sure a few gamers did. Kids have shorter attention spans when it comes to games now. They expect everything to be explained to you upfront. I usually read every game manual before I play, especially if its a RPG game. I'm old school though. That's what we were known to do. My nephews and nieces don't read any manuals now. They just jump right in and try to figure out the controls themselves. Screw the manual.

XanderZane

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]I'm not surprised. Hand-holding is so common now, its almost disgusting.jume

Let's make up an example just for fun.

Back then:

What's that white thing on that desk? Oh, a letter. Maybe I can interact with it. Oh... "Town X is lovely this time of the year... bla... kid found weird stone... bla... Greetings, Someguy". Could that stone be part of the puzzle? I need more info. Well, maybe I should go to Town X and talk to Someguy. But where is this town. Did this game come with a cloth map? Nope. Guess I might just ask random people for directions or follow signs on the roads. Here we are, Town X. But where does he live? I should try talking to people."

Today:

"Press X to read that letter you didn't even notice yet but happen to stand within 10feet of." "New objective: go to Town X" "Here's a marker on your map screen so you don't need to figure where that place actually is... and because people can't be expected to find 'south' on their own, here is a big fat arrow pointing the way right to his doorstep. Also, just so you won't get lost in some maze, let us draw a big red glowing line on the ground you can follow."

Any sense of achievement from discovering stuff is gone. No sense of exploring the world and finding a place that was mentioned somewhere. Replaced with big fat floating question and exclamation marks. How many players even read the quest descriptions? It's useless fluff, so who cares. Just tell me what and how many I need to kill.

Old Sierra type adventures wouldn't even be possible today, because everytime a game requires you to do something for the first time, a player expects to have it explained step by step. "You can pick up long sticks by typing 'take pole'... you can get across large gaps by typing 'use pole to jump over chasm'... also, you won't be doing this again in this game, so we just solved the puzzle for you... you can press F1 now to watch the game play itself."

Even many action games keep telling you how to beat the boss. "Throw his grenades back at him by pressing R2." "Press L1 to dodge and make him charge into the pillars.". That's not replacing a manual, that's a game shoving its own walkthrough down your throat.

The Starcraft 2 editor spanks both by miles, and it's the single biggest reason LBP2/Halo Reach will struggle for a GOTY in my opinion. Because one of their big selling points(their editors) are incredibly inferior to the one that comes with Starcraft 2. jg4xchamp