[QUOTE="F1ame_Shie1d"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Neither has to be that extreme that it becomes a chore; both changes are all about habituation.

For example, try reducing the sugar in your coffee from two teaspoons to one and you'll soon find that, although the first couple of times felt less pleasant, coffee with two teaspoonfuls now tastes over-sweetened and nasty. Likewise, once you start exercising regularly, you'll feel like you have more energy and you'll wonder how you got by without that extra kick of oxygen/adrenaline/endorphins in your day.

jimmyjammer69

Sad as it sound I actually went through withdrawls from pop. Say what you want, caffine is addicting as hell.

caffeine raises metabolism.... thats why most diet pills are loaded with caffiene.

Daily show recently reminded me, but ive heard the 1% statistic before.

Which means some people here are statistically psychopaths. Have you never naturally cried or felt choked up during a movie? are you a psychopath?

the author i believe said corporate executives are 4x as likely to be psychopaths, so its not necessarily a detriment.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

so you think we should model ourselves after china? this is the problem we all come back to... is there is no functional libertarian model, its a pipe dream. But china has WAAAAY more government regulation than the US.

and you honestly might be right, but you also have no proof... and no examples to backup that theory. Its like watching 5 guys try to jump the grand canyon and they all meet a fiery death... but its gonnna work when we try... just cause we are feeling totally stoked. Such bad reasoning.

Saturos3091

not regulations like safety or environmental stuff.... but they are sure more than happy to force companies like GE to hand over patents to their government in order to do business there.... or insisting their government owns part of the business.

If people thought the financial and auto bailouts were bad, their heads would explode when they heard what china demands for the right to do business in their country.

but the thing is, all china's poor worker salaries are constantly going up, the average american worker salary is going down. And eliminating things like minimum wage isnt going to bring that salary up.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="BMD004"]That is completely false. Here is a list of 10 companies that have moved their headquarters overseas to avoid paying the U.S. taxes: http://www.focus.com/fyi/finance/10-big-businesses-that-have-moved-abroad/ and that is just 10 big companies. There are a LOT of other companies that much prefer the taxes they pay in other countries overseas. And the financial crisis was created by the incentive that the government provided by the extremely low interest rates. The risk-taking was encouraged by the incredibly low rates. Then, Fannie and Freddie (government-sponsored companies) were were encouraged to buy toxic securities. That isn't even up for debate. It's what happened. I don't even need a source for that because it is common knowledge. BMD004

First, I'll address the issue that you say that businesses don't leave because of taxes.

First, here is a 60 minutes report that was done about two months ago about how businesses go overseas to find a tax-haven so that they don't have to pay U.S. taxes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml

If you don't think that a LOT of businesses move to other countries, then I don't know what to tell you other than that you are ignorant about this particular issue.

Now, about the financial crisis. You are trying to treat symptoms instead of the root cause. The #1 main cause of the whole economic mess is Alan Greenspan and the Fed lowering the interest rates to almost nothing. This is what gave incentive for all of the BS that went on with the lending.

we cant sustain on economy based on tax evasion... we are too big. Thats why tiny ass states like delaware do that stuff. Or tiny ass countries like switzerland.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

glad you brought up china... would you like to know why they are rapidly growing? Because their middle cIass is growing... and the US middle cIass is shrinking.... so all those top 1% tax break US billionaires, when they are looking for a ripe economy to invest their money... they invest in china, where the middle cIass is growing and not the US where the middle cIass average salary is declining.

thats why giving tax breaks to the top 1% has the very bottom of the barrel in terms of US GDP growth.

Saturos3091

so you think we should model ourselves after china? this is the problem we all come back to... is there is no functional libertarian model, its a pipe dream. But china has WAAAAY more government regulation than the US.

and you honestly might be right, but you also have no proof... and no examples to backup that theory. Its like watching 5 guys try to jump the grand canyon and they all meet a fiery death... but its gonnna work when we try... just cause we are feeling totally stoked. Such bad reasoning.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"]

Gee, your indexes founded on skewed data are sure just as reliable. I can prove smoking pure tar is beneficial to your health with the same formula. Perhaps you would just like to pay 12% more for basic necessities like food and water? That plus a population of less than 6 million make it easy to sustain your "socialist paradise." With a population skyrocketing past 300 million, it's pretty obvious that such a concept wouldn't work in the US, where a mixed economy is obviously the most logical way of doing things.

And your analogy about feudalism is wrong on so many levels. Feudalism isn't even a form of State - the backbone of ANY economy or nation. That's rudimentary political science for you. A libertarian state, one formed on free industry, deregulated social (recreational) activities, and a relatively strong state infrastructure (NOT bureaucracy - which the aim of libertarianism is to reduce), is entirely possible. Look at Switzerland, Luxembourg, even Monaco, etc. etc. If you can use small, inconsequential countries, I can too.

EDIT: F*** html glitches

Saturos3091

whats a corner stone of switzerland's economy? tax evasion and money laundering from socialized states? yep i think so.

You think the US can actually boost the ecnomy based on tax evasion, from US taxes?

glad you brought up china... would you like to know why they are rapidly growing? Because their middle cIass is growing... and the US middle cIass is shrinking.... so all those top 1% tax break US billionaires, when they are looking for a ripe economy to invest their money... they invest in china, where the middle cIass is growing and not the US where the middle cIass average salary is declining.

thats why giving tax breaks to the top 1% has the very bottom of the barrel in terms of US GDP growth. They invest all those tax breaks in foreign markets that are gaining purchasing power as americans lose it.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

freedom on both ends of the spectrum...? the idea behind libertarianism is to make the general populace your slaves, but have just enought government to keep your slaves from killing you.

airshocker

That's the biggest load of horse-s*** you've said yet.

The whole point of libertarianism is to be free. Not to be slaves of anybody, unless of course you choose to.

if the choice is between, working for 5 cents an hour and starving.... you generally choose the 5 cents... this is how the chinese manufacturing economy works.

there isnt a terrible amount of choice involved...

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

The Nobles and Serfs system definitely was NOT a libertarian system. Individual liberties and freedoms did not exist in those systems, so how can they be considered 'libertarian" in the first place?

taj7575

maybe not on the social side, but on the ecnomic side.... it was pretty close to libertarianism. So just imagine being a serf with free speech.

Hmm..No, in that case, that is more of a conservative-authoritarian setup, not libertarian. Of course it has one aspect, but many different political systems might have an example of one..but that doesn't make it that system. Libertarianism having freedom on both aspects of the spectrum is the reason why it is so powerful, and it is much more than freedom of speech ;)

freedom on both ends of the spectrum...? the idea behind libertarianism is to make the general populace your slaves, but have just enought government to keep your slaves from killing you.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

so we should throw out statistics in favor of second hand anectdotal evidence? seems more reliable.

Saturos3091

whats a corner stone of switzerland's economy? tax evasion and money laundering from socialized states? yep i think so.

You think the US can actually boost the ecnomy based on tax evasion, from US taxes?

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"] Except I know people who live there, and aren't happy, and if you know anything about how those "indexes" are created, then you know it's statistical bulls***. Take a high school math class and come back before you post nonsense, please. It's pretty clear that at least education needs a reform in the US...Saturos3091

so we should throw out statistics in favor of second hand anectdotal evidence? seems more reliable.

ok so numbers and formulas are out? ill concede victory.