[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

There are no libertarian nations. They simply don't exist. And no one wants a fully libertarian government anyway. We want mixtures that protect the things we hold dear.

taj7575

libertarian nations did exist, in feudal times, when you had noble and serfs... granted it wasnt a democracy... but it was an economy ruled by money... which is essentially the conservative ideal.

dont get me wrong i want to down a shot of whiskey while pointing a gun at you, smoking a cigar, and drinking salt. Im a civil libertarian myself.... but on economic issues, libertarians are out of their mind.

The Nobles and Serfs system definitely was NOT a libertarian system. Individual liberties and freedoms did not exist in those systems, so how can they be considered 'libertarian" in the first place?

maybe not on the social side, but on the ecnomic side.... it was pretty close to libertarianism. So just imagine being a serf with free speech.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Didn't you ask for a conservative government? Also what's up with canada being communist? :|

_BlueDuck_

That's assuming we use the American example as our reference. Sure, Harper is left of most Republicans. But I'd just say Republicans are just that much more right leaning. Still conservatives. Plus if we want to get technical, Harper and a lot of Republicans these days are neo-liberals, not really conservatives anyhow. When I think of real conservative governments, theocratic or monarchist governments come to mind.

whos the last true conservative pres iyo? if today repubs are liberal.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Generalizations with no proof are always winning arguments. :roll:

BMD004

look up healthcare outcomes, life expectency, child mortality rates, and the happiness index... tell me if US is number one (hell look up any sort of statistic thats measurable, "socialist" countries win EVERYTHING)..... then tell me how the libertarion nations rank.

Proof is in the pudding. There is no such thing as a successful libertarian nation.... IT DOESNT EXIST, THIS IS A FACT.

Liberetarians don't like the restrictions and burden that the federal government puts on the economy.

Government caused the 2008 financial crisis when they fooled with interest rate. Government is the reason a lot of businesses in the US move out of the country. The government makes it hard for entrepreneuers to start their business and keep it going.

Government limits competition and creates inefficiency, and it is so big now that it puts a real burden on the economy.

You don't have to be a genius to see the negative effect it has on the country as a whole.

first of all there is a reason i always put socialist in quotes.

second of all, everything else you said is blatantly wrong... im guessing you read that on some weird ultra conservative website.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Generalizations with no proof are always winning arguments. :roll:

Saturos3091

look up healthcare outcomes, life expectency, child mortality rates, and the happiness index... tell me if US is number one (hell look up any sort of statistic thats measurable, "socialist" countries win EVERYTHING)..... then tell me how the libertarion nations rank.

Proof is in the pudding. There is no such thing as a successful libertarian nation.... IT DOESNT EXIST, THIS IS A FACT.

so we should throw out statistics in favor of second hand anectdotal evidence? seems more reliable.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

look up healthcare outcomes, life expectency, child mortality rates, and the happiness index... tell me if US is number one..... then tell me how the libertarion nations rank.

Proof is in the pudding. There is no such thing as a successful libertarian nation.... IT DOESNT EXIST, THIS IS A FACT.

airshocker

There are no libertarian nations. They simply don't exist. And no one wants a fully libertarian government anyway. We want mixtures that protect the things we hold dear.

libertarian nations did exist, in feudal times, when you had noble and serfs... granted it wasnt a democracy... but it was an economy ruled by money... which is essentially the conservative ideal.

dont get me wrong i want to down a shot of whiskey while pointing a gun at you, smoking a cigar, and drinking salt. Im a civil libertarian myself.... but on economic issues, libertarians are out of their mind.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

I can admit libertarians want to implement a system with no F'n idea what might happen. Socialist bastion like finland are smarter than us, and happier than us. But we want to avoid being smart and happy because thats the american way.... we gravitate towards somalia's style of government, because that seems like a hot place to live.

airshocker

Generalizations with no proof are always winning arguments. :roll:

look up healthcare outcomes, life expectency, child mortality rates, and the happiness index... tell me if US is number one (hell look up any sort of statistic thats measurable, "socialist" countries win EVERYTHING)..... then tell me how the libertarion nations rank.

Proof is in the pudding. There is no such thing as a successful libertarian nation.... IT DOESNT EXIST, THIS IS A FACT.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

I'm not talking about things like that. Things like child labor laws, anti-trust laws, are good. The problems started with the neo-conservative policies and wasting our nations money on other nations and worthless wars, the Nixon Shock, etc..

taj7575

like the maine republicans that want to abolish child labor laws? bring us back to the good ole days? what do you think republicans want? ron paul, the old libertarian champion voted in FAVOR OF OIL SUBSIDIES. Despite claiming he was against subsidies. Party is a joke. Even the libertarian leader sells out.

I'm not a republican, so I don't know why you are throwing these things at me like I am. But to reply to that, it's more than "abolish child labor" laws. It's probably there to remove the "under the table" pay, which a lot of children do anyways. The lower minimum wage for 180 days may also come from the fact that the minimum wage is already hard enough for many stores to pay.

Dealing with the Ron Paul situation, the bill was apparently for reducing taxes, which from a libertarian perspective, is what is right.

lol ron paul tried to bill the subsidies as a tax credit, because oil companies pay taxes (as in if we are neighbors and my name starts with an A and yours doesnt i get $100 off my taxes). Of course when exxon pays no taxes, they still get subsidies.

Hes a fraud, it was a lie... dont defend him. Subsidies are not tax credits.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

pretty sure canada is communist, you pinko

Former_Slacker

Didn't you ask for a conservative government? Also what's up with canada being communist? :|

Canadian conservative != American conservative. Canadian and British conservatives are far closer to the dems than the repubs. Winston Churchill himself kept the NHS in place in Britain even when he had the chance to kill it before it took off; the dems don't even support socialized health care. The us poltical spectrum is much farther to the right than any other western country's spectrum. There is no mainstream conservative party in any western country as radical as the repubs and the dems would be considered right wingers in most other western countries.

that was back when i was pretending to be sarcastic... now that i roped in the libertarians... its full on logic slaughter.

i can point to a "socialist" nation with better life expectency, one with better education, one with better infant mortality rates one with cheaper healthcare.

But no libertarian can ever point to a nation with better anything. Because libertarian nations are trash heaps. This is called logical thinking... if the opposition can point out statistics, and you got nothing... you are WRONG.

Its like me saying 2+2=4 and i can show you.... but you say "2+2=5 but I cant prove it, just gottta trust me". A logical human being goes with the guy that can show his proof.

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

No we don't need to model anything out of Hong Kong. It's just they followed a great free-market system for a long time, and worked perfectly. We continually kept changing our system since the beginning of the 20th century and has set us with a flawed want-to-be Capitalist system that is failing. Much of Hong Kong's problems also stems because it is a small island. Imagine if we followed a proper free market system with the amount of space we had for growth in our nation from the 20th century. Sadly, we can't go back to that, and most likely, never can.

taj7575

the good ole days of buildings with no fire escapes, that burn hundreds of women to death. Amen. Stupid goverment getting in the way.

I'm not talking about things like that. Things like child labor laws, anti-trust laws, are good. The problems started with the neo-conservative policies and wasting our nations money on other nations and worthless wars, the Nixon Shock, etc..

like the maine republicans that want to abolish child labor laws? bring us back to the good ole days? what do you think republicans want? ron paul, the old libertarian champion voted in FAVOR OF OIL SUBSIDIES. Despite claiming he was against subsidies. Party is a joke. Even the libertarian leader sells out.