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#1  Edited By DarthBuzzard
Member since 2019 • 360 Posts

@jaydan said:
@subspecies said:
@jaydan said:
@subspecies said:

@jaydan: Dude you sound so pissed off.

It must be your inner conscience that's pissed off and projecting it onto me. Sorry I can't control your emotions, I'm just supplementing the conversation.

Um, okay. But, ah, I'm not the one filling up the thread with essays. *shrugs*

Writing "essays" does not equate to being "pissed off". I'm sorry but that's not your definition of writing an essay. That more or less speaks to me you really are projecting your own emotions onto a strand of posts that you don't agree with.

@son-goku7523 said:
@jaydan said:
@son-goku7523 said:

This won't stop the haters and fanboys from proclaiming the death of VR. I swear we'll be in 2039 with people's sunglasses doubling as VR headsets and these same fools will still be declaring that VR is dead.

So 2039? Is 2039 the year we'll finally harness the potential of VR? LMAO see this is why most of you purists are so delusional on your VR concept.

You guys live in some Dreamland some odd years in the future always hopeful of this bright future for VR. That's the PROBLEM. You guys constantly hype bright futures and yet none of you can contain when that bright future will come. Five years? Ten years? Fifty years? Do you seriously think an average consumer gives a shit about about something that is refined ten years down the pipeline? That's great, and I really hope VR can have a bright future, but that's the reason why consumers don't care about it at this point in time. Consumers focus on the NOW and what's already stable in the market. VR is simply NOT stable in the market and its future remains very uncertain, so much that even you are not sure, but at least you're honest it can take until 2039. I'm sure at least some of us here could be dead by then.

This is the fatal flaw I see of any VR purist's condescending remarks towards everyone else that's simply in touch with reality. VR is just not a sensation or a norm at this point of time, for extremely obvious reasons; but hey, hopefully by 2039 we'll see its fullest potential.

? Go take your meds. I just picked a random date as an example, your rant and meltdown essay over this is weird as hell. VR is already doing well already and the market for it is growing especially now that Nintendo is about to join the market.

I guess that's really just what it comes down to when anyone comes around to criticize VR and its purists. Why even bother making these types of threads then when you purists are really only looking for people to validate your own viewpoints and to shun any arguments you don't want to make by instead posting memes as a form of dismissal. When anyone tells you that VR is not as relevant of a thing and still niche in gaming, I guess these people are just mad and out-of-touch with society. Or is it the other way around?

I'm not even dismissing the potential of VR technology. I never even said it was dead - all I said was it's not relevant in the NOW to mass demographics, and so far there is loads of uncertainty when that day will come. I don't need to bicycle pedal all the points I already made in this thread but I stand by my case you VR purists really are that delusional and out-of-touch with mass demographics.

Spend 20 minutes watching this and everything becomes much clearer in terms of timeframes.

Loading Video...

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#2  Edited By DarthBuzzard
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@Gatygun said:

It's good to see some people still believe in the VR dream.

Sadly the tech is to flawed to ever be meaningful. i could even see it being straight out banned at certain points. As these things are a health risk to your eye balls.

It's doing exactly what 3D was doing. Trucking on because there is nothing else really out there to move towards.

that video is similar to google maps no? they take photos of the house and then you take a virtual tour. not the same as coming up with a whole game or experience from scratch.

I dont know if VR will ever get there. and will people buy it in masses when it does?

we'll see or maybe we won't if we are dead.

You had that stuff already 20 years ago. They had a name for it which i forgot. I was making with this cheapo webcam full 360 pictures of area's which you could just walk around in like you where in a virtual world.

Who's going to put that helmet on and turn your head around endlessly in those pictures. Far faster on a ipad or mobile.

that's the problem with VR entirely its backwards.

Dude, you did not have this 20 years ago. You'd be lucky to find a VR headset 20 years ago that let you even move in 3D space. Are you really comparing a mobile device to a VR headset? That's like saying "Why bother going to Niagara Falls when you can watch a video of it on your phone?"

As time goes on this will be faster than accessing things on a phone because the interface will be responsive to all your inputs. Voice, hands, eventually by thought using BCIs.

The only thing that's backwards is your logic and knowledge of VR. There isn't even any known risk to your eyes.

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#3  Edited By DarthBuzzard
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@KBFloYd said:
@darthbuzzard said:
@KBFloYd said:

audio. sure. you can make audio sound like real life easily.

video it doesnt matter how sharp the image is like the varjo. you still have to create the environments on a PC. and even with a the best graphics games still look like games. when will games reach real life quality? thats been a gamers dream since the 80s. I dont think this will happen in our lifetime. maybe after you and i are both dead. but we wont know.

haptx gloves is a cool idea adding to the realism but you cant feel with them. you cant feel if something is soft or hard(lol..thats what she said) or any textures. so that will always be missing from VR.

these problems are insurmountable imo.

I just said that Welcome to Lightfields looks real. It doesn't look like a game. The graphics are equal to reality.

Loading Video...

Photorealism using fully raytraced games can totally get us to graphics indistinguishable from reality. This is the last piece of the puzzle needed to achieve photorealism. I'm not talking about some hybrid approach. I mean games that are raytraced, period. No rasterization at all. This isn't nearly that far off because in VR you only have to care about what the fovea sees, making rendering always less demanding in VR games.

And no, you are wrong about HaptX. You can feel resistance, which means you can feel shapes. You have to actually apply force to crush an apple. A rock will be impossible to crush unless the game allows it by design. They have working temperature prototypes as well, and you can feel the texture of objects already. There's videos of people feeling individual rain drops and spider legs crawling on their hands, and it feels convincing. The Teslasuit also works in a similar way in terms of texture, and I believe it has temperature built in.

that video is similar to google maps no? they take photos of the house and then you take a virtual tour. not the same as coming up with a whole game or experience from scratch.

I dont know if VR will ever get there. and will people buy it in masses when it does?

we'll see or maybe we won't if we are dead.

The method can be used to synthesize artificial lightfields.

Loading Video...

As a sidenote, Google are currently working on Lightfield video which means 360 videos that you would be able to walk around. That's some HoloDeck Sci-Fi shit there.

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#4  Edited By DarthBuzzard
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@KBFloYd said:
@darthbuzzard said:
@KBFloYd said:
@darthbuzzard said:

You tried Labo VR. You can't move in 3D space. You don't have any hand presence except in limited scenarios like the art app. Those are all designed to be minigames.

With high-end VR, you can move in 3D space, it's much higher specced, you have hand presence, and there are plenty of full games.

Hard to setup is only true of some headsets. Oculus Quest takes 10 seconds to setup.

And VR is very social. Why do you think Facebook is involved?

sorry, having played vr i can tell you moving in a virtual space would be super cool and thats it. having your hand register in a virtual world also super cool. but thats it.

im sure even with 1000 headests you will feel in a game world. but in order for VR to take off and revolutionize gaming it has to be like real life. i dont think thats happening. ever

only 1 vr headest per home right? maybe online it can be social but in your own home its 1player isolated experience.

This isn't about super cool. This is about making it natural. If you can't move in 6DoF, it's unnatural and restricting. Hand presence is what makes VR allow for so many different types of mechanics in the first place.

You say it has to be like real life to take off, and that's not even that difficult to achieve. Have you seen impressions of the Varjo VX-1 headset? One of the impressions said it looked realer than real life. Have you seen reactions to people having their own personal HRTF for audio? They literally cannot tell the difference between a real sound and a virtual sound. Have you seen the HaptX gloves? Impressions on that suggest it's extremely convincing for the sense of touch and same with the Teslasuit.

These are all tractable problems.

By the way even if you only have one headset per home, you can still swap headsets for party games and play together with asymmetrical games.

audio. sure. you can make audio sound like real life easily.

video it doesnt matter how sharp the image is like the varjo. you still have to create the environments on a PC. and even with a the best graphics games still look like games. when will games reach real life quality? thats been a gamers dream since the 80s. I dont think this will happen in our lifetime. maybe after you and i are both dead. but we wont know.

haptx gloves is a cool idea adding to the realism but you cant feel with them. you cant feel if something is soft or hard(lol..thats what she said) or any textures. so that will always be missing from VR.

these problems are insurmountable imo.

I just said that Welcome to Lightfields looks real. It doesn't look like a game. The graphics are equal to reality.

Loading Video...

Photorealism using fully raytraced games can totally get us to graphics indistinguishable from reality. This is the last piece of the puzzle needed to achieve photorealism. I'm not talking about some hybrid approach. I mean games that are raytraced, period. No rasterization at all. This isn't nearly that far off because in VR you only have to care about what the fovea sees, making rendering always less demanding in VR games.

And no, you are wrong about HaptX. You can feel resistance, which means you can feel shapes. You have to actually apply force to crush an apple. A rock will be impossible to crush unless the game allows it by design. They have working temperature prototypes as well, and you can feel the texture of objects already. There's videos of people feeling individual rain drops and spider legs crawling on their hands, and it feels convincing. The Teslasuit also works in a similar way in terms of texture, and I believe it has temperature built in.

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#5  Edited By DarthBuzzard
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@KBFloYd said:
@darthbuzzard said:
@KBFloYd said:

i just tried some Labo VR.

VR is super cool. However its fun in small time frames. 30min maybe even 1 hour if your up to it.

ITs a cool thing to mess around in.

But it wont overtake normal gaming. normal gaming is just too plug and play and comfortable and social. VR is too nonsocial, hard to set up and a bit uncomfortable.

the games are also not deep enough.

You tried Labo VR. You can't move in 3D space. You don't have any hand presence except in limited scenarios like the art app. Those are all designed to be minigames.

With high-end VR, you can move in 3D space, it's much higher specced, you have hand presence, and there are plenty of full games.

Hard to setup is only true of some headsets. Oculus Quest takes 10 seconds to setup.

And VR is very social. Why do you think Facebook is involved?

sorry, having played vr i can tell you moving in a virtual space would be super cool and thats it. having your hand register in a virtual world also super cool. but thats it.

im sure even with 1000 headests you will feel in a game world. but in order for VR to take off and revolutionize gaming it has to be like real life. i dont think thats happening. ever

only 1 vr headest per home right? maybe online it can be social but in your own home its 1player isolated experience.

This isn't about super cool. This is about making it natural. If you can't move in 6DoF, it's unnatural and restricting. Hand presence is what makes VR allow for so many different types of mechanics in the first place.

You say it has to be like real life to take off, and that's not even that difficult to achieve. Have you seen impressions of the Varjo VX-1 headset? One of the impressions said it looked realer than real life. Have you seen reactions to people having their own personal HRTF for audio? They literally cannot tell the difference between a real sound and a virtual sound. Have you seen the HaptX gloves? Impressions on that suggest it's extremely convincing for the sense of touch and same with the Teslasuit.

Hell, have you ever booted up Welcome to Lightfields by Google available on Steam? That shit looks as real as reality with the only thing holding it back being the specs of the headset.

These are all tractable problems.

By the way even if you only have one headset per home, you can still swap headsets for party games and play together with asymmetrical games.

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#6 DarthBuzzard
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@KBFloYd said:

i just tried some Labo VR.

VR is super cool. However its fun in small time frames. 30min maybe even 1 hour if your up to it.

ITs a cool thing to mess around in.

But it wont overtake normal gaming. normal gaming is just too plug and play and comfortable and social. VR is too nonsocial, hard to set up and a bit uncomfortable.

the games are also not deep enough.

You tried Labo VR. You can't move in 3D space. You don't have any hand presence except in limited scenarios like the art app. Those are all designed to be minigames.

With high-end VR, you can move in 3D space, it's much higher specced, you have hand presence, and there are plenty of full games.

Hard to setup is only true of some headsets. Oculus Quest takes 10 seconds to setup.

And VR is very social. Why do you think Facebook is involved?

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#7  Edited By DarthBuzzard
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@enzyme36 said:
@darthbuzzard said:
@enzyme36 said:

I only saw 1 VR game at Pax East this year. The 3 years prior VR sets took up half the floor space.

Not saying its going away, but it doesnt seem to have as big of a push to the gaming front as it did a few years back. Personally its too clunky for me. I am more interested in AR than VR.

Did you walk around PAX with a blindfold? There was loads of VR at PAX. I have no idea how you missed it because it was right in your face a lot of the time.

AR is just as clunky as VR and not nearly as developed, and even if it was, it wouldn't be nearly as suitable for gaming.

All the people that say "I'm more interested in AR than VR" are almost certainly going to 180 their opinion when they get their hands on AR and find out that it doesn't meet their expectations in comparison to VR.

The only VR game I saw was the light saber /rythm game on the show floor. Looked cool too. Passed 3 years its been about half and half VR.

I walked the whole floor many times and I didnt see it. Years past it was unavoidable.

You definitely didn't walk the whole floor then. You might have thought you did, but you probably missed entire sections. There were huge lines that went back pretty far for some of the booths, and there were large crowd gatherings when they did the Asgard's Wrath event.

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#8  Edited By DarthBuzzard
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@enzyme36 said:

I only saw 1 VR game at Pax East this year. The 3 years prior VR sets took up half the floor space.

Not saying its going away, but it doesnt seem to have as big of a push to the gaming front as it did a few years back. Personally its too clunky for me. I am more interested in AR than VR.

Did you walk around PAX with a blindfold? There was loads of VR at PAX. I have no idea how you missed it because it was right in your face a lot of the time.

AR is just as clunky as VR and not nearly as developed, and even if it was, it wouldn't be nearly as suitable for gaming.

All the people that say "I'm more interested in AR than VR" are almost certainly going to 180 their opinion when they get their hands on AR and find out that it doesn't meet their expectations in comparison to VR.

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#9 DarthBuzzard
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@jaydan said:

All it takes for VR is to have that one company to make it into a trendy thing. It's not always about these technological advances that's going to make them relevant to mass demographics. I think that's what most of these companies are completely missing. All these companies are toting on their technological advances and supplementing niche experiences yet none of them are being trendy with their business choices.

I'd laugh so hard if of all companies it ends up being Nintendo that catches this trend. Surprisingly, LABO VR is getting favorable reviews. All Nintendo needs to do is announce Pokemon Snap VR and suddenly Nintendo would be on top of the entire pack and no one would care about how much more advanced Oculus Rift would be.

Nope. Oculus has the right mindset. They are chasing after the standalone headset crowd which will easily outsell PC and console headsets when that corner of the market gets going. They are also working on lots of new applications for VR outside of gaming so that it can be as appealing as smartphones eventually where everyone has one. That's the right idea for maximizing the amount of people to get into VR.

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#10 DarthBuzzard
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@jaydan said:
@djoffer said:

@jaydan: lol so you are arguing that vr are dead/not relevant, and one of your arguments are because there is to MANY companies jumping on the bandwagon??

Did I ever say VR is dead? Please go back and read my posts thoroughly and tell me where I made such a statement. I actually stated my hopes it can have a bright future, but that time is NOT now for all the reasons I stated. You might not understand the drawbacks of a market that becomes oversaturated, and that's what I'm currently seeing with the plethora of companies jumping aboard this bandwagon. Just because you have a bunch of companies investing in this technology does NOT mean it's a good thing. Half of these companies will ultimately abandon VR or go out of business entirely because there's way too many right now competing in the market.

It's the very reason why you see three main console makers instead of ten. The market simply will not be able to sustain ten console makers in such a market.

It baffles my mind how delusional half of you VR purists are for not understanding why a huge sum of the gaming demographic are simply not buying into this VR concept. It's really not as complex as you guys like to make it seem. It does NOT mean gamer's will never buy into the VR concept, but as of right now there are no real substantial reasons why gamer's should for all the reasons I stated.

May 1st. Half Life VR gets announced. Possibly a Portal game and a Left 4 Dead or Team Fortress game. If these games are as good as their past entries, these will be killer apps and VR will be a hell of a lot more accepted by gamers.