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ianuilliam

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#1 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

How is where you sit an indication of what kind of experience you get? I game at my desk, yes, but I dont have a office chair, I have a freaking lazy boy with a board across the armrests so I can use the M&K. Before you go on about my board, its wrapped in a blanket and I use a mouse pad. Very comfortable. Iantheone
The main benefit always cited around here is better graphics. If you're at a desk, 12-24 inches from a screen, super high resolution looks great. But if you are, let's say 8-10 feet from a 40-50" HDTV, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between 720 and 1080p, much less anything higher. Thus for people who prefer sitting on the couch playing with a controller on the big screen, the higher res argument is moot. Herms always refute the couch+controller+tv argument by saying "you can hook up your pc to a controller and tv!" but if the graphics don't look significantly better from that distance anyway, your pc is no better than a console... it just costs 2-3 times as much. In order to get the full benefit of a good pc's capabilities, you need to sit at a desk up close... which is an inferior experience, IMO.

ian give it rest the PS3 was still $500 in 2007, also depending on location and supply the PS3's were as much as $1000. and in 2007 I built a Pc for $750 and it walked all over both consoles which is a much better price to performance ratio... so only spend 25% more and get 3x the ability hmm thats a no brainer. That Pc still being used to this day playing modern games much better then either console version. Your arguments only work if someone had to build the top of the line Pc from scratch in 2006. Also you didnt need a top end Pc to beat the PS3 graphically, The PS3 only has 256mb system memory and 256mb of video memory which is only 25gb/s and the its Graphics chipset is a gimped Geforce 7800 which has more in common with a 7600 then 7800. From 2005 all the way into 2007(when multicore support started to take off) you could use a Single core cpu, have 1gb of memory, a Geforce 6 or 7 and match and or surpass what the console's did with multiplatform games. And a normal Geforce 7800GTX has 2x the video memory and 2x the memory bandwidth. In some countries console gaming is more expensive then Pc gaming. 04dcarraher
Brand new PS3's started at $500 at launch in 2006, and were never sold at retail for $1000 (USD). If someone paid that much, it's because they were a sucker. What, can't find a PS3 in stores because you waited till the week before Christmas? Just wait till January. It's a few weeks. It won't kill you.

The reason I keep looking at 2006 prices for pcs and using high end machines that still meet the system reqs of games coming out in 2011, is because that's when the last consoles came out. If a new Xbox comes out in 2013, that means a 360 owner who bought his console in 2005 could go 8 years without having to upgrade and know his machine will play every single game released on the Xbox platform only having spent that initial $450. Well, I guess technically, he'd have had to buy a Kinect to play EVERY 360 game, and spend $400ish on Live, if he wanted online the whole time (thus why I went PS3 instead)... Ignoring Live, $600 on hardware for 8 years of meeting the System Reqs to play every game without worrying about whether he should buy a new card to get a little better graphics or anything like that.

Similarly, let's say PS4 comes out in 2014ish. $500-600 in 2006 to play every PS game for the next 8 years... including PS2 games, since we're talking about buying in 2006 (there were still PS2 games being released that didn't make it to next gen systems, or only to 360, for the first few years).

By comparison, you couldn't build a pc at all in 2005 that will still play all games released on the pc platform, much less play them well, without additional hardware investments since. And you couldn't build one in 2006 without spending a minimum of 2-3 times the cost of consoles. And even if you did that, you'd have had to replace your OS (which isn't cheap to do, legally...) at least once. I dunno, maybe more... any games with a hard requirement of Win7 yet? And hell, Win 8 will be here before 360/PS4.

Scalable hardware is nice... it can be an advantage. If you want better performance, you can upgrade, but you don't always have to just because the newest hardware is out. That's cool.... but it's also a disadvantage. Periodically, you do HAVE to upgrade, or lose the ability to play the newest and best games. Standard hardware, on the other hand, has the advantage of not having to worry about that. You buy a console at the start of the gen, you don't have to worry about it for 5+ years. In this gen, looks like it's going to wind up being 8+. You buy a PC at the start of the gen... and who knows. It might be only a year or two before a significant advancement comes along that becomes a requirement in new games. And further, while a pc may be hugely more powerful on paper, standard hardware allows for the code to be much more optimized. In practice, the differences are not nearly as vast as Herms like to claim, especially at the distance most console gamers sit from the screen.

You can't have the cake and eat it too. You wanna claim all those pc games on the spreadsheet, and better graphics/performance to boot? You have to accept much higher cost. You want to claim "not much more than consoles," you gotta accept that you can't play all the games on your platform, and even those you can, you have to sacrifice either performance or graphics to do it.

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#2 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

The real question; why do PC gamers care so much what other people play on that they have to go on the crusades? :|

Skreltch

Stay on consoles if you want and live in a your own little world. But this IS SYSTEM WARS, and the point is to make sure you know that we are having a better gaming experience for our money than you are. Sorry, facts are just facts.

Better for the money? Not if the difference isn't worth the extra money. At the distance I sit from my tv, the difference in resolution isn't noticable... To actually notice that "better experience," I'd have to use a monitor and sit at a desk... which is an inferior experience IMO, so it'd be paying 2-3 times as much for an inferior experience. Quite the conundrum... Wait, no it isn't, I'll just go with the much cheaper console, that is a better experience IMO, and offers more of the games i care about.

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#3 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]I didn't say every cloud, every dog, every personal computer, every car, every American, or every pc from 2006 in the post above, so that means all of those sentences are true, right? Even though there can be clouds with no rain, many dogs have no spots, most personal computers run on Windows, people drive cars all the time without getting arrested, way more Americans do not live in Wyoming than do, and the vast majority of PCs, even those bought for gaming, are not more powerful than consoles (at least not in a way that translates to new games running better... or at all).I have no problem accepting that a 2006 pc that cost at least $1200, and likely a good deal more, outperforms a console from 2006 that cost $400-600. Why would I have a problem with that? The only thing I said was a lie was your initial statement "if you have a pc from 2006, you already know it plays any games better than consoles." I have a pc from 2006. It doesn't play games better than consoles. Ergo, the statement was not true. Also, I never called you autistic, or even implied that you might be. At this point, despite my usual tendency to continue an argument as long as the other party keeps going, I really think I just need to walk away on this one.Iantheone
A PS3 cost over a grand at launch where I live. Hardware costs of a PC are higher, yes, but software costs are much lower. To the point where I was able to buy 2 copies of a game for $40NZD less than a single console version

PS3 was $500-600 USD at launch in 2006. A pc that still holds up today (plays all new pc releases, and plays games at console settings/performance or better) in 2006 would have had, at minimum a 8800gtx, which cost $600 USD in 2006, a Core 2 Duo @ 2 GHz or greater, $300 in 2006. Windows Vista (required for some newer games) wasn't released at retail till 2007, so you would have needed to buy XP for what, $100-150, then upgrade to Vista at some point for another $100+. Plus at least a couple hundred more for RAM, case, PSU, HDD, dvd drive, etc... So $400-600 for 2006 consoles, $1200-1500, or more for 2006 pc. Saying a PS3 was $1000 at launch where you lived is meaningless, unless you provide the 2006 cost of a pc similar to the one above where you live as comparison.

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#4 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

just because you don't have a pc capable of playing games, it doesn't mean that this statements is false, because it is YOU not everyone.

again I never said "any pc".

MK-Professor

If there are clouds, you know it is going to rain. If you have a dog, you know it has spots. If you have a personal computer, you know it runs on Mac OSX. If you are driving a car, you know you are going to get arrested. If you are an American, you live in Wyoming. If you have a pc from 2006, you know it is more powerful than console.

All of those sentences have something in common. Can you figure out what it is?

It is a common sense not to include office-pc's or low-end pc's, and also I never said every pc.

I get it, you don't like the idea that a very old pc outperform the consoles, that is ok with me, but don't try call me liar or even worse autism(like you did in your post above).

I didn't say every cloud, every dog, every personal computer, every car, every American, or every pc from 2006 in the post above, so that means all of those sentences are true, right? Even though there can be clouds with no rain, many dogs have no spots, most personal computers run on Windows, people drive cars all the time without getting arrested, way more Americans do not live in Wyoming than do, and the vast majority of PCs, even those bought for gaming, are not more powerful than consoles (at least not in a way that translates to new games running better... or at all).

I have no problem accepting that a 2006 pc that cost at least $1200, and likely a good deal more, outperforms a console from 2006 that cost $400-600. Why would I have a problem with that? The only thing I said was a lie was your initial statement "if you have a pc from 2006, you already know it plays any games better than consoles." I have a pc from 2006. It doesn't play games better than consoles. Ergo, the statement was not true. Also, I never called you autistic, or even implied that you might be. At this point, despite my usual tendency to continue an argument as long as the other party keeps going, I really think I just need to walk away on this one.

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#5 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]If you have a pc from 2006, you know it is more powerful than console.

All of those sentences have something in common. Can you figure out what it is?Iantheone

Dude, calm the hell down. How many pages has this been going on and how many times must someone say that with the right hardware from 2006 that PC is more powerful than a console. Not any PC, just one with the right hardware.

Yeah... and I never argued with that. I called his original statement, as it was written, incorrect (or a lie), and have only been arguing for this many pages because he has said I was wrong for this many pages, using a slightly different statement with a different meaning, and saying I'm upset that a pc from 2006 could be more powerful than a console from 2006, despite me, repeatedly, agreeing with his second statement and freely admitting that a pc that costs 2-3 times as much in 2006 could outperform a console from 06.

Why are you telling me to calm down (I'm perfectly calm, tahnks for asking), and asking how many times someone has to say something that I've agreed with since the first post? Seems just as valid to tell him to calm down (he's posted just as many times as me about it up to this point) and ask how many times someone has to explain the same consept of basic English? I'm sorry if my going on about it is bothering you, and I realize its a bit nit-picky, but I find it equally annoying for others to repeat the same thing over and over, without ever even attempting to debunk or refute what I said. Honestly, I can't help it. Maybe its OCD, maybe its autism, who knows... I just can't help but continue an argument until the other side either A) admits they are wrong (or at least stops arguing), B) proves me wrong, or C) we reach some mutually agreeable middle ground.

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#6 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

Just Dance 3 which got 8.0, wii verision 7.0, doubt sony addition will score as much as Kinect version, Once Upon, Halo Anniversity, Dance Central 2, Gunstringer, Kinect Sports 2, yes all you will say no it doesnt have a chance but you were all wrong about SS and so on, Forza 4!!!!! I thought this was Sonys year of destruction? And for laughs Disney Adventures has a good chance at AAE as well so let the hating begin!!! ForzaGearsFace
Ok... who understood this and can translate for me? Title says something about 7 AAE's and 8 AAs, and asks about Sony... Then OP mentions 4 AAEs, a AA, and 3 games that haven't been reviewed yet, 1 of which isn't exclusive. I dunno.

By my count, 360 has 1 AAAE (Gears3), 4 AAEs (Forza4, Gunstringer, Once Upon a Monster, DC2). The only two high profile AAE Hyped releases left for the year, that I know of, are Kinect Sports 2 and Disneyland Adventures. So I guess, if both of those get AA, then 360 will have 7 AAE+ for the year, at least for the 1/5 or so of 360 owners who've bought Kinect. Not bad at all for "No Gamez!" Nice ownage.

By comparison, PS3 has 1 AAAE (LBP2), 5 AAE (KZ3, MLP11, Motorstorm, Yakuza, Resistance3), and 4 AE (not counted in Metagame, but listed on the spreadsheet for reference. Socom4, Infamous2, Disgaea4, R&C:A4O). The only high profile AA+ hyped release left that I know of is Uncharted3. If it gets AA+, PS3 will have 7 AAE+ for the year (and 4 AE).

Including Multis, my count puts it at 9 AAA, 24 AA for PS3 and and 8 AAA, 26 AA for 360 (includes at least 2 game also on PS3, but not yet reviewed). I could be a little off. Spreadsheet needs updating badly.

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#7 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

I don't mean something different, i mean exactly what i said.(and I don't need to say 'except' office-pc's or low-end pc's, because that is common sense)

Also you are the one that need to say "Oh, yeah, my bad" because at the beginning you are accused me for lying, because you were unaware that a pc from 2006 can play games better than consoles.

MK-Professor

IF you meant exactly what you said, THEN you meant any pc from 2006. Because that's how conditional statements work. IF I say "if you have a pc from 2006, I will give you $1000." THEN I either have to honor my statement, and give the person $1000, no matter what pc from 2006 they have, or go back on my word, by saying "well, I didn't mean ANY pc from 2006." Had you said "IF you have a pc from 2006 with a minimum of X gpu and Y cpu and Z ram, then you know (blah blah blah)" THEN you would be right. But since you just said "IF you have a pc from 2006" then anyone who can say "Yes, I have a pc from 2006" meets the requirements of the conditional statement you used.

Also, I didn't accuse you of lying because I was unaware that a pc from 2006, provided it was high end, costing at least 2-3 times more than consoles at the time, can still play games better than consoles. I've not disagreed with you about that at all throughout this whole back and forth. I accused you of lying because you said "even if you have a pc from 2006, you already know that it can play any game better than consoles." IF I have a pc from 2006, and it cannot do as you said, THEN your statement is false.

just because you don't have a pc capable of playing games, it doesn't mean that this statements is false, because it is YOU not everyone.

again I never said "any pc".

If there are clouds, you know it is going to rain. If you have a dog, you know it has spots. If you have a personal computer, you know it runs on Mac OSX. If you are driving a car, you know you are going to get arrested. If you are an American, you live in Wyoming. If you have a pc from 2006, you know it is more powerful than console.

All of those sentences have something in common. Can you figure out what it is?

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#8 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="TheGuardian03"]Wow that looked boring i guess it deserves an 8.0 for motion controls standards, seriously how did that POS score an 8.0 lol.TheGuardian03

I have to ask... Are you, or do you have, a child in the 2-5 age range? If not, your opinion about this game is about as valid as a deaf person's opinion on music. Just sayin.

And why do you care ? that i think this looks crap ? is it bothering you that i think a kinect game looks boring ? My opinion is as valid as any other person here, gotta a problem ? Juat sayin.

You call it a POS and say it looks boring and ask how it deerves an 8. The answer to that being that to people in its target demographic, it is not a POS and does not look boring. I think baseball is dumb... and baseball video games are even dumber. But I'm not going to say MLB doesn't deserve AA-AAA scores because of that, because I can recognise that while I may not like it, it is one of the best , if not the best, game for its target demographic. My opinion on how good a baseball game isn't really valid, if I don't like baseball. Likewise, your opinion on a game meant for preschoolers isn't valid if you aren't a preschooler, or a parent of a preschooler.

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#9 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

Once again i am not referring to any pc. just because you don't have a pc capable of playing games, that doesn't mean that this statements is false, because their are others that have a pc from 2006 that can play games better than consoles.

MK-Professor

Hey, it's all good. You MEANT something different from what you said. Easy enough to just say "Oh, yeah, my bad. THIS is what I MEANT to say." But trying to say a statement that, according to the actual rules of the English language and logic, is technically false... is true, doesn't actually make it so. "If you have a dog, you know it is white." That is a false statement. Even though there are some white dogs, so it might be true for SOME people, the statement can not be considered to be universally true, because someone could have a dog, and it not be white. This sentence is IDENTICAL in structure to your own. "If you have a pc from 2006, you know it is better than consoles." No. That is incorrect. You can SAY you aren't referring to any pc, but when you say "if you have a pc from 2006..." you are, literally, saying that anyone that has a pc from 2006--ANY pc from 2006 at all--knows it plays games better than consoles. By the very definition of conditionals, or IF-THEN statements, IF the condition set forth is met, THEN the result will happen. So if you ask someone "Do you have a pc from 2006?" and they say "Yes I do," then the result "you know it plays games better than consoles" should be true. If it isn't, then your sentence is false. I know I must sound like a broken record going on about something so nit-picky, but come on. I'll sit and argue with someone all day over the color of the sky if they keep telling me that when they said it was green, they were right because it's green for people who happen to be wearing green tinted sunglasses. Cool story, but it's not what you said.

I don't mean something different, i mean exactly what i said.(and I don't need to say 'except' office-pc's or low-end pc's, because that is common sense)

Also you are the one that need to say "Oh, yeah, my bad" because at the beginning you are accused me for lying, because you were unaware that a pc from 2006 can play games better than consoles.

IF you meant exactly what you said, THEN you meant any pc from 2006. Because that's how conditional statements work. IF I say "if you have a pc from 2006, I will give you $1000." THEN I either have to honor my statement, and give the person $1000, no matter what pc from 2006 they have, or go back on my word, by saying "well, I didn't mean ANY pc from 2006." Had you said "IF you have a pc from 2006 with a minimum of X gpu and Y cpu and Z ram, then you know (blah blah blah)" THEN you would be right. But since you just said "IF you have a pc from 2006" then anyone who can say "Yes, I have a pc from 2006" meets the requirements of the conditional statement you used.

Also, I didn't accuse you of lying because I was unaware that a pc from 2006, provided it was high end, costing at least 2-3 times more than consoles at the time, can still play games better than consoles. I've not disagreed with you about that at all throughout this whole back and forth. I accused you of lying because you said "even if you have a pc from 2006, you already know that it can play any game better than consoles." IF I have a pc from 2006, and it cannot do as you said, THEN your statement is false.

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#10 ianuilliam
Member since 2006 • 4955 Posts

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]


Well, whatever, i dont even know what MetaGame you are constantly talking about is TBH or its rules, so maybe by those rules it stands as exclusive

Though after a game is announced for more than one systems, i (and the whole world) call it multiplatform, so i dont agree at all with those rules, it should be clearly stated that is timed exclusive, that is all, because calling it exclusive like a real exclusive is laughable

Now, what abour Crysis ? That one is released, isnt it ?

loosingENDS

Dude. Seriously. When a game is released on only one system, it is an exclusive. Even if it is only a "timed" exclusive, and has been announced on other systems, it still counts as an exclusive until it comes out. Gears of War was a 360 exclusive the year it came out and won GotY. It didn't stop being an exclusive until the pc version was released. Mass Effect 1 was a 360 exclusive. Until it released on PC. The Witcher 2 is still a PC exclusive. And will be, until it is released on another system. Comparing that to ME3, and trying to call that a 360 exclusive, because the pc and ps3 versions aren't out yet, makes you look ridiculous. It's not out on 360 yet either. If it does release on 360 first, you can call it exclusive until another version comes out. Say it comes out on a Tuesday on 360, and the PS3/PC versions don't come out till Wednesday... you can run around talking about it being a 360 exclusive all you want... for that one day. Until then, it is nothing like the situation at hand, and trying to bring it up is just... come on...

Exclusivity is lost after the announcement of the game for more than one platforms, not after their release on those platforms

Otherwise Mass Effect 3 would not be called multipltform, since it has not been released yet, but it is called such

Multipltform is a game announced for more than one platforms, has nothing to do with the release date on each platform

Also the timed exclusive term is completly different than the exclusive alone, one means you can get the game on other systems soon, the other that you can never get the game on other systems, which is the whole point of beeing an exclusive

Its never been done that way. When the game is only available on one system, it is exclusive to one system. Which doesn't apply to ME3, because it is not available on any system yet. When it comes out, it will be available for multiple systems, so it will be multiplat from day one. If it WAS going to come out for 360 first, it would be a timed exclusive, and would count as an exclusive game from the time it releases until it releases on another platform.