Wow i didn't mean to hit your heart. You said in your post "don't be dumb now". I mean i thought it was fair game to comeback at you. My fault ifi wenttoo far.I'm not sensitive so you can say what you want to me, i know it's all in good fun. But I apologize that i hit your heart since you felt it necessary to make a whole other post.This is to all MJ fans, why when someone gives facts to you you never come back with any facts or stats? Just oppinions. Then when you know your wrong you say we loveKobe, Bron, Magic, Russel etc.... to much
This is not to all MJ fans just the really immature ones. Like sixringz, because I clearly never said Kobe is better then Jordan. and he got mad and made personal attacks, why the whole time I was just stating facts and naming stats.
BLBxLakers24
sixringz1's forum posts
[QUOTE="sixringz1"]
[QUOTE="BLBxLakers24"] Let me say this one time and one time only MVP MEANS NOTHING! Nash has two, is he better Bryant? No and not even close. Last MVP to win a championship same season they won the award is Shaq in 2002, so thats what MVP means.
Scoring on a double team, and tripple team is harder to do then scoring on a more physical one on one defense. Dont be dumb now. No one was face guarding Jordan like Battier does Kobe. Its not even a question the D is a lot harder then what Jordan went threw.
Jordan won rings in the 90s, the 80s and 70s was the years when it was very physical.
And you cant not count Kobes accomplishments in his next few years, he earned the right to play in the league for this long, and if accomplishes more then Jordan he is better then Jordan its that simple. You cant ride Jordan that hard, There is nothing Jordan did that Kobe cant do. Fact. But Kobe has a better left, and a better 3 point shot then Jordan did. Fact.
Every NBA expert and and ESPN person will tell you Kobe is as guard as any 2 guard in history, pretty sure Mark jackson said it last night. Kobe been to the top, then went to the bottom and had the drive and hunger to get back tot he top and did it. Kobe and MJ two greatest players of all time. And one day if Kobe can win one or two more and break the scoring record then Ill have to say kobe is better, cause there is no reason or anything you could say he is not.
I understand Kobe is GOD to you, and you worship the ground he walks on, but you are taking this to heart a little too much. Get over it.You obviously have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Get off you're high horse and do some research before you post stupid comments. Do you really think Kobe was the first player in NBA HISTORY to ever get double and triple teamed. Watch some tapes youngster and do your homework before you say such ridiculous things. Nothing like hearing about 80's bball and Michael Jordan in the same post from some kid who was in what, KINDERGARDEN OR FIRST GRADE, when Jordan won his 6th title.:roll: Lmao Im taking it to heart but did not make one personal attack? Your whole post was personal attacks, that are backed behind? ohh yeah nothing.Like I said before its a fact Kobe is the most double and tripple teamed player off all time.
I could easily say the same thing about Jordan being god to you, but I didnt. Your childish, grow up. Thats why I dont post on the sports forums cause its alot of suburban cats who think they hard over the internet.
And Once again I never said Kobe is better then Jordan. I said more then likely at the end of his career you wont be able to deny that Kobe is. But keep hating, jumping to conclusions, and putting words in my mouth, its your job. And your the one catching feelins, you sit on a gamespot forum and talk about sports all day, your probably trash with the rock and thats why you type all day.
Play on a top division 1 team in the state of Ohio, City League Season champs, and I also play for one of the best football teams in the country. So just so you know you cant comeback with any comeback like that.
"suburban cat" ha ha you're funny. Grew up just outside of Baltimore, and not Towson or some ritzy area either contrary to what you may think. TRUST ME ON THAT. Played sports in high school and Junior College before transfering to a University. But it's good to see you gloating about your personal accolades, which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this post. But for real, keep working hard and go as far as you can. I was too into the party scene during my younger age to give a damn about sports like that. And TRUST ME, i'm not "trash with the rock" eitherNot counting the marketing ploy that was the Wizards, MJ only played 11 Full Seasons. He only played 18 games in his 2nd season due to injury and only played 17 in 94-95 when he came back from retirement, so it's really hard to count them. Kobe has never had a season where he didn't play at least 50 games. But even if you want to count those years and the Wizard Years, he only played 15 seasons. Kobe just finished his 13th year so his future accomplishments IF YOU COMPARE THEM TO JORDAN, is all arelevant term. It will be unfair to compare Kobe's numbers in the next 5-6 years to the likes of Jordan, Magic and Bird cause none of them came close to playing as long as kobe will.[QUOTE="sixringz1"]
[QUOTE="BLBxLakers24"]
Okay here is some stats. Kobe has 9 all NBA defensive teams already. MJ finished with 9.
Kobe has 11 all NBA team, MJ finished with 11.
At age 30 MJ had 3 rings. Kobe has 4.
Im not saying Kobe is better then Jordan but in the next decade Kobe will have his chance to past him.
Also defenses tht Kobe sees today where not around in Jordans day. Kobe is the most double and tripple teamed player of all time, fact. Jordan played in a league where it was all man to man.
BLBxLakers24
And the defense comment is a joke. This has been discussed time after time. It doesn't matter if you are Jordan or whoever, in the 80's and early 90's you could get away with 2nd degree assault charges on defense. You could hand check the entire way, you could use BOTH OPEN HANDS, not one forearm like today, when defending in the paint. You could push players all over the court. Watch some of those Bulls v Pistons series in the 80's aka "The Jordan Rules". MJ and everyone else got mugged from the time they stepped on the court. Nowadays whether it's Wade, Kobe, Lebron, etc., if you drive to the lane and scream loud enough the refs call fouls. You can't even blow on the elite players of today w/out getting a foul called.
And as for Kobe catching MJ, sure it's possible, but he has A LOT OF WORK TO DO. MJ had 5 MVP's kobe has 1, MJ had 6 finals MVP's Kobe has 1. MJ won defensive player of the year, Kobe never has, etc. Some of the things you've listed are predicated on the years played in the league. Kobe will end up with prob somewhere around 16 all NBA teams and 13-14 all D teams. That will far surpass players like MJ, Magic or Birdcause they didn't play that long. Things like MVP's are more telling when comparing players because it doesn't have as much to do with how long you played as much as it does how much you dominated in the years you DID PLAY. I mean Mike Mussina has nearly the same amount of all star appearances (5) as sandy koufax does (6) and over 100 more wins (270) than Koufax (165), and nobody in their right mind is going to say that Mussina was a better pitcher than Koufax, it just so happens that he played a lot longer therefore giving him the opportunity to accumulate those kind of numbers.
When it's all said in done in 15 years, or so, i personally think Lebron will surpass EVERYONE on these lists. We'll see
Let me say this one time and one time only MVP MEANS NOTHING! Nash has two, is he better Bryant? No and not even close. Last MVP to win a championship same season they won the award is Shaq in 2002, so thats what MVP means.Scoring on a double team, and tripple team is harder to do then scoring on a more physical one on one defense. Dont be dumb now. No one was face guarding Jordan like Battier does Kobe. Its not even a question the D is a lot harder then what Jordan went threw.
Jordan won rings in the 90s, the 80s and 70s was the years when it was very physical.
And you cant not count Kobes accomplishments in his next few years, he earned the right to play in the league for this long, and if accomplishes more then Jordan he is better then Jordan its that simple. You cant ride Jordan that hard, There is nothing Jordan did that Kobe cant do. Fact. But Kobe has a better left, and a better 3 point shot then Jordan did. Fact.
Every NBA expert and and ESPN person will tell you Kobe is as guard as any 2 guard in history, pretty sure Mark jackson said it last night. Kobe been to the top, then went to the bottom and had the drive and hunger to get back tot he top and did it. Kobe and MJ two greatest players of all time. And one day if Kobe can win one or two more and break the scoring record then Ill have to say kobe is better, cause there is no reason or anything you could say he is not.
There's nothing like hearing about 80's bball and Michael Jordan in the same post from someone who was in what, KINDERGARDEN, when Jordan won his 6th title.:roll: Please go watch some video and do your research before you make some of these comments since you weren't close to being old enough to watch any of these games when they were ACTUALLY BEING PLAYED. Believe it or not Kobe Bryant is not the first person in NBA history to see a double and triple team.i think that was prob the case even before this championship. I mean lets throw some names out there.
MJ, Magic, Bird, Big O, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq. There's 8 that just came to my mind. Even if you put Duncan at #9 since he is, by most accounts, the best and most accomplished PF of all time, that would leave Kobe at 10. Now youcan rearrange those players all you want but you'll be hard pressed to find any other players to crack that top 10. I mean Dr. J, Hakeem, Sir Charles, Malone, Mikan, Gervin, Cousy, Petit, Frazier, West, Havlicek, Stockton, Pippen, Robinson, etc. Those are all great players but is there really anybody in the 10 i listed that you would take out and put one of them in? i know i wouldn't. So in "my opinion" kobe was in there already, this maybe just solitifies it for anyone who was on the fence
Good ol Mont. Always around to rain on my parade, and bash MJ any chance you get. Man oh man, you talk about all the "kobe haters", i think you got em all beat. But feel free to jump in. Everything i posted are FACTS. And keep in mind i never stated in any of my posts that "so and so" is the best player ever, i just argued against some of the others. I'll be waiting Mont. You better bring your "A" game and not some manipulated videos of 10 minutes of game footage like before, or links to articles that have an agenda against MJ.:D But then again "you just came across those things" right? Cause you don't support that kind propaganda right? ;)Wow, this looks like fun, maybe I'll jump in here after I get off work! Or should I start the thread I was planning before the finals began, possibly entitled
"The Myths about Michael", hummmm
mont13
[QUOTE="batman0811"] hey man say what you have to say, and lets see what sense you make, if your talking about my post rip it apart and lets see how stupid it really is
I won't get into a whole ordeal cause i've beat this topic to death the last couple years. I'll just comment on a couple things. First the "amount of talent" comment. Who in the Bird - Magic era was so great? The majority of the greats all played on the same team (i'll get to that later). I mean you wanna say Dr. J, Moses Malone, cool. But Jabaar and Worthy both played WITH Magic. Mchale and Parrish both played WITH Bird. You can throw Wilkins and Isaiah in there too but they went up with MJ in their prime too. Now lets look at the 90's when Jordan was dominating. Here is a list of some of the names on the First Team All NBA during that time - Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Olajuwon, John Stockton, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Ewing and Gary Payton to name a few. Every name i mentioned are FIRST BALLAD Hall of Famers and all with MAYBE the exception of Shaq were in their prime."Jordan didn't win his first title til his 6th or 7th year" Yea and if you take away the marketing ploy that was the Washington Wizards, he also DIDN'T LOSE a title for his LAST 6 seasons. So nearly half of his career was spent winning championships and you are complaining about him not winning in his first few years.
As for the Pippen comment. He was great no denying, but he was not the 2nd best player in the league at any point during those title runs. He may have been the best small forward but not 2nd best player. And i always love how people bring up Rodman's name as if those first 3 titles didn't happen. Those first 3 titles consisted of 2 great players and a bunch of role players - PERIOD. I mean Will Perdue, Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, Horace Grant, Craig Hodges, Craig Hansen, Cliff Livingston, John Paxon. COme on now.
Next point "when they got to the finals no other teams could handle the double threat of Jordan and Pippen". I'm missing the point on this one. Because they were "too good" they should be penalized? What? I mean the Jazz had Malone and Stockton in 2 consecutive finals but the Bulls handled them. Payton and Kemp were just as dynamic for Seattle in the mid 90's the bulls handled that. I'll just stop on that point cause i'm not sure what you are saying. That's like saying LA should be penalized this year if they win the title because the West was down.
Finally will get to your vote of Magic. I love Magic. I have nothing bad to say about him. But i will counter one of your main points. You talk about Jordan having Pippen, Magic had Jabaar AND Worthy as well as the best perimeter defender of his era in Cooper. So to say he "makes his teammates ten times better than Jordan" is pushing it considering more than half their roster consisted of Hall of Famer's or Perenial All Stars. You could say the same thing about Kobe now. When he had no talent on his team and he struggled to even get the 8 seed, he was looked at as a "bad teammate and someone who can't make anyone better", but now that he has far superior talent he's all the sudden "a great teammate and makes everyone better". He's theSAME PLAYERhe was back then he just trusts this group more. It's not hard to "make your teammates better" when THEY'RE ALREADY GREAT.
I said i wasn't gonna knock Magic cause i like him but you forced me to do this - THE ULTIMATE OWNAGE of this post - Magic Johnson NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER, made an NBA All Defensive team 1st OR 2nd team. You can't be mentioned as the "best" ever when you only contributed on one side of the floor. Then compare that to Jordan who in 9 of his 12 FULL seasons with the Bulls (not counting 95 when he came out of retirement for the last month of the season) was not only on the All D team, he was FIRST TEAM EVERY TIME!
Sorry about the wall of text, but you asked me to counter. But in the end it's all opinion anyway. You're entitled to yours i wont knock it
sorry it took so long to reply back, i just had a baby a few weeks back, not that you care, but 1st point that i want to make is that all those players you named stockton(one of my favorite players of all time), malone, shaq, barkley, they were all good but none of there teams matched up with the bulls, maybe i spoke to highly of pippen ill give you that but he was one of the most verstaile players, he could play like 4 postions, and took a lot of pressure off jordan. the other point is that pippen and jordan really caused a lot of miss matches for thos teams and what i was saying about the double treat is that jordan gets so much credit for being the greatest, the one that one six titles when he couldnt win those titles without pippen or coach jackson. every championship team had more than one great player except maybe the pistons form 2004 they just had 4 or 5 really good players that meshed really well together. you also made good points about magic but i still think that if you look at his body of work he was just great, he might not have been nba all defensive but that does not mean he is a horrible defensive player. also yeah he had some great player around him but the way he controlled that team with his court vision and basketball iq was really something to take note of. no matter what i say most people will crown jordan the greatest, even though if you really look at it he was a great, great player that fell into a great coach, in a great era for him, and a great sidekick. you made really good points and i respect yoir opinion. Congratulations, that's far more important than some stupid internet forum talking about players past and present who have no idea who we are. Lol. it's all in good fun.Not counting the marketing ploy that was the Wizards, MJ only played 11 Full Seasons. He only played 18 games in his 2nd season due to injury and only played 17 in 94-95 when he came back from retirement, so it's really hard to count them. Kobe has never had a season where he didn't play at least 50 games. But even if you want to count those years and the Wizard Years, he only played 15 seasons. Kobe just finished his 13th year so his future accomplishments IF YOU COMPARE THEM TO JORDAN, is all arelevant term. It will be unfair to compare Kobe's numbers in the next 5-6 years to the likes of Jordan, Magic and Bird cause none of them came close to playing as long as kobe will.Okay here is some stats. Kobe has 9 all NBA defensive teams already. MJ finished with 9.
Kobe has 11 all NBA team, MJ finished with 11.
At age 30 MJ had 3 rings. Kobe has 4.
Im not saying Kobe is better then Jordan but in the next decade Kobe will have his chance to past him.
Also defenses tht Kobe sees today where not around in Jordans day. Kobe is the most double and tripple teamed player of all time, fact. Jordan played in a league where it was all man to man.
BLBxLakers24
And the defense comment is a joke. This has been discussed time after time. It doesn't matter if you are Jordan or whoever, in the 80's and early 90's you could get away with 2nd degree assault charges on defense. You could hand check the entire way, you could use BOTH OPEN HANDS, not one forearm like today, when defending in the paint. You could push players all over the court. Watch some of those Bulls v Pistons series in the 80's aka "The Jordan Rules". MJ and everyone else got mugged from the time they stepped on the court. Nowadays whether it's Wade, Kobe, Lebron, etc., if you drive to the lane and scream loud enough the refs call fouls. You can't even blow on the elite players of today w/out getting a foul called.
And as for Kobe catching MJ, sure it's possible, but he has A LOT OF WORK TO DO. MJ had 5 MVP's kobe has 1, MJ had 6 finals MVP's Kobe has 1. MJ won defensive player of the year, Kobe never has, etc. Some of the things you've listed are predicated on the years played in the league. Kobe will end up with prob somewhere around 16 all NBA teams and 13-14 all D teams. That will far surpass players like MJ, Magic or Birdcause they didn't play that long. Things like MVP's are more telling when comparing players because it doesn't have as much to do with how long you played as much as it does how much you dominated in the years you DID PLAY. I mean Mike Mussina has nearly the same amount of all star appearances (5) as sandy koufax does (6) and over 100 more wins (270) than Koufax (165), and nobody in their right mind is going to say that Mussina was a better pitcher than Koufax, it just so happens that he played a lot longer therefore giving him the opportunity to accumulate those kind of numbers.
When it's all said in done in 15 years, or so, i personally think Lebron will surpass EVERYONE on these lists. We'll see
[QUOTE="sixringz1"]
no actually i'm an orioles fan, but that's why i'm so familiar w/ the AL east
Well then, I have no beef with you because I have no problem with the Orioles. I hate the Red Sox and Yankees as much as you do.
You should be happy though, your year will come. After all, you guys do have the best prospect in baseball, Matt Wieters. :P
Yea they have some good young hitting in Roberts (who's not really young since he's around 30 which isn't young for a player) and Markakis. Wieters is supposed to be like the second coming or something, so hopefully that pans out, and you heard it here first, in 2-3 years Adam Jones will be mentioned as one of the top 5 ALL AROUND players in baseball. Check his numbers thus far if you're not familiar. And watching him play it looks like he's got A LOT of room to grow. The problem is their pitching is HORRIBLE and i see no signs of hope. They might be the new version of what the Rangers have been for the last Decade for the next few years. A team that has to win all its games 10-9 or something outrageous like that.
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