Oh man, just when I was about to drop this, you had to put in the comment about Magic and steals, why??? You know I'm stuboirn!!!!??? Never said he ws a good/great defender. But you said something like "Magic ccouldn't be considered for GOAT since he only contributed on one end of the court", and called it the ultimate "ownage" as you were brow beating some poor defenseless youngster. ;)I know about steals and real defense, but steals howeverMagic got them is "contrinuting on the other side of the court", and he led the league!

BTW, do you view MJ's steals the way you do Magics?? Pippen was MJ's "Michael Cooper", allowing MJ to play passing lanes and rack up steals...(you're in the big leagues now, dude, maybe you should go back and get yo A++++ game:shock:)

P.S. How about Jim Brown calling ya Boy MJ out???;)

mont13

As for Jim Brown, you wanna talk about beating a dead horse. He's been saying the same thing since 91. I think he has demensia or something cause he talks about it like it's breaking news and like we've never heard this song before. He's been saying the same thing about Tiger for a decade as well. Hey Jimbo go put on your Jordan's, sit on your couch andplay Tiger Woods video game and call it a day. HA HA!!!

Just in, Shaq has been traded to Cleveland for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic, the 46th (2nd round) pick in this years draft, and cash considerations. Lebron finally gets the help he needs. Yet the big question now is can Shaq stay healthy for the entire season? Full story. Does this now automatically make the Cavs the favorites next year?

Yagr_Zero

Wow, really touched a nerve there huh. But it's cool.My "but" only concerned looking at Jabbars career not taking anything away from MJ, this time. And if I have in the past it was probably something MJ should not be getting as much credit for anyway.I'll bet you a penny that most didn't know what all Jabbar accomplished, and another penny that most didn't know Magic led the league in steals believing that he was a one-way player only...etc.

Multiply your annoyance at my little "hate" of MJ the last couple of years, if that's what you want to call it, multiply that by the years and years of "MJ's the GOAT", "its not even close", ....smack, that I and others have heard over and over and over, year after year, now that's some frustration for ya. My little stint on G-spot is nothing by comparison. I can't even tell you the number of times I've had MJ's numbers and accomplishments thrown in my face, as if nobody ever played ball before or after him and believe it or not it's not me who starts the discussion. That is what has gotten old to me. I decide to push another view point, I think backed up with facts, and I'm the "Hater" or crazy in some eyes.

Maybe not many will admit it, but I bet there are some who've thought....."you know, he's right, I never thought about it like that or looked at it that way". I may have even prompted some to do more research to try to arrive at the truth of a related issue or even to prove me wrong. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, I'm that opposite reaction to the promotion of MJ as the GOAT. I don't do the same "against" those who promote Magic, Russell and others as the GOAT because its not done over and over...

I bet another penny that if I were preaching "MJ is the GOAT" instead of responding with an opposing viewpointI would not have gotten your lecture, I would be "ya boy";). Man, this must be good drama/comedy for others reading our little "discussion".

P.S. You could have helped me out with my ignorance of the players in the draft, here's your chance to school me.......it's just a joke dude, really I'm a nice guy, see :D

mont13

Also to your "if you agreed with me on Jordan i'd be your boy" point. Your cool with me regardless, but no doubt we'd team up and take over any "history of the NBA" topics on this forum. I'd be MJ and you could be Scottie, or better yet i'll be Shaq and you could be Kobe, either way the offense would run through ME :D. Had to do that. it was too easy to ignore.

But for real to your point on MJ. I understand that people may have thrown that stuff in your face throughout the years but NOT HERE, at least that i can recall, but my memory sucks to say the least so who knows. Honestly other than me, who REALLY goes in depth to support MJ. A whole bunch of people will say "MJ's the best" or just give the basic stats, but other than me none of them go as in depth as me. So you gotta look at it from my end. For a guy who has claimed on countless occasions "i don't think it's fair to say definitively that one player is better than any other", it's hard for me to come to any conclusion other than you hate Jordan when you ONLY attack him. By your opinion that there is "no such thing as best ever" i would expect you to pick apart every post that argues for ONLY one player, but it's ALWAYS jordan. Just kind of got old that's all.

oh yeah one more thing. Magic and his steals argument. Anyone who watches bball knows steals are the most overrated defensive statistic in the book because VERY FEW times do you outright steal the ball from your opponent(aka pick their pocket). Most steals come off of pressure forced by another player that forces a loose ball or bad pass that leads to the steal. Magic may have been the guy who ended up with the steals, but i'll "bet you a penny" he didn't CAUSE the majority of them. That distinction belongs to Michael Cooper who was the best perimeter defender of the 80's (Dennis Johnson was up there too). Hell Iverson has lead the league in steals on more than one occasion and i don't think anyone confuses him with a great defender.

Anyway, you're still good in my book.

so im a bit bummed. i came home to crowbar marks on the door, i came in and my ps3, about 15 games and 30 movies were gone. i had infamous, cross edge, res evil 5, lbp, uncharted, valkyria chronicles, soul edge 4, sf4, mgs4, disgaea 3, a couple others and flower, mega man 9, ssf2hd and mk2...... i had to vent and i felt off topic was the best place. anybody have this happen to them before?

(btw, this is the 3rd time in 4 years my apt's been broken into)

z4twenny

Just doing my duty for Truth, Justice and all that. Yeah there is some history there, but he came into the tale end of a discussion of the subject with some other dudes, although he claims not to remember,...oh, gotta keep this on the D.L.. As President and C,E.O. of the "MJ is the GOAT" co., sixringz patrols this site for any potential Jordan dis:lol:

Back to the subject. I have no problem with those in the Jordan camp, MJ had a BRILLIANT career. But, for example, considering Jabbar's prime along with his longevity which included....6 rings (2 different teams), 6 MVP awards (most in history), Rookie of the Year, 19 time all-star, 2 scoring titles, 4 time league leading shot blocker, took a team from 27 to 56 wins in his rookie year, was in the top 5 in 4 different catagories one year (pts, rbs, blocks, fg %), would have had 2-3 dpoty awards if they were giving them out then, good free throw shooter for a big man, was always a team player, had probably the most unique, indefensible, smooth, graceful shots in history, yet to be duplicated before or since..... (I could do the same for Wilt, Russell, Magic...)

Jordans better than this cat! ??? How do you conclusively say Jordan is better than Jabbar??? You can't , imo. Toss in the position difference and it's just impossible, isn't it, am I nuts here???? How do you put MJ over Jabbar without tearing down Jabbars efforts..."yeah, but that was back then, yeah but he was the first modern style big man, yeah but he had limited competition...etc. Do that to MJ and you're a "hater".

As far as Kobe is concerned as compared to MJ. IMO Kobe is at least as skilled as MJ. Kobe's the better ball handler, better long range shooter, better "foot work" (the best ever at his position, imo), as athletic, not far behind in defense, will and work ethic on par....etc. People have been looking for the next Jordan, he's been in the league for 13 years, imo.

mont13

In MY OPINION, and the opinion of the MAJORITY, Jordan is the best player ever. Does that mean other people can't make arguments for other players, of course not, but not at the expense of every other player in the discussion. Why when someone makes an argument for Magic, Russell, Kobe, Jabbar, etc. you don't attack them the same way you do jordan? PLEASE ANSWER ME THAT. I mean there are people on this board that argue that Russell is the best ever. There are people on this board that argue the Oscar is the best ever. There are people on this board who argue that Magic is better. And when i say argue i don't mean they simply say "I think Magic is the best", they go in depth and try to support their argument. Why don't you pick them apart? Let me guess, because NONE OF THOSE PLAYERS ARE JORDAN? Does that sound about right?

There's nothing wrong with doing something like that to make you're initial point but it's like you have some agenda with the way you come at Jordan.You talk about me being a Jordan lover. I don't create new topics dedicated to Jordan. Hell contrary to what you may think i don't even comment on half the topics that involve Jordan. I didn't comment on the guy PATRIOTS comments because i've made my point. I don't feel it necessary to keep arguing with everybody who doesn't share my opinion cause to tell you the truth, at the end of the day, i couldn't care less. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Hell I didn't even comment on this thread until YOU asked me to. You on the other hand are on Kobe's jock harder than anyone on this board. You are the same guy that actually made a YEAR LONG "Kobe/Lakers" BLOG and you have the nerve to CLAIM TO BE A PACERS FAN. What is that? At least all the other Kobe lovers on this board ACTUALLY LIKE THE LAKERS.

Unlike you with Jordan, i don't hate other elite players INCLUDING KOBE BRYANT. I just don't think anyone in their right mind can say he's the best player ever when he's 30 years old and not close to the end of his career. In another 10 years everyone can revisit that subject, same with Lebron, and THEN make a more accurate assesment. Hell Tom Brady will PROBABLY go down as the best QB ever, and probably have the most Super Bowl wins for a QB, but nobody is going to say he's the "Best" right now. By doing that you are discrediting people like Marino, Montana, Elway, etc. by saying "hell Brady can retire now and he's the best qb ever". That's the same thing with Kobe, or Lebron for that matter. People who say he's the best ever are discrediting everybody else. Forget Jordan since you won't give him any REAL credit anyway, if someone says Kobe is the best player ever that is implying that he could retire RIGHT NOW, and NEVER PLAY ANOTHER GAME, and he's already a better player than Russell, Jabbar, Oscar, Magic, Bird, etc. That's nonsense. When his career is COMPLETE then it would be fair to compare him. Even me "THE HEAD OF THE JORDAN FAN CLUB" like you say, never said Jordan was the best player ever until he was retired and i could measure his ENTIRE BODY OF WORK

Everytime i see you post your putting up some other guys numbers just to discredit Jordan in some way. "Yeah he did that BUT... He was great BUT... He won championships and MVP's BUT...". If YOU don't think Jordan is the "best ever" COOL, that's your opinion, but why do you feel it necessary to ALWAYS try to diminish his accomplishments. It's all in good fun to do it from time to time, hell everybody does, but you are a broken record at this point and it's just getting tired cause you do it EVERYTIME.

Ok, admittedly college ball is not my thing (some might say, neither is pro!), ha,ha. Anyway, although I know some of the bigger names and a little about what they've done in college I need to rely on some of you "experts" to help me out. Questions:

1) Is Blake Griffin legit, will his talent translate well to the NBA game? Does he have any decent offensive skills besides dunking? Short "J"? He seems atheletic enough and plays with energy. Any past or current NBA'ers you would compare him to?

2) Tyler Hansbrough, how big is he , is he a power forward or small forwqard? If SF, can he handle the ball? I know he has heart/energy/hustle..etc, is that enough to be an impact player in the NBA as opposed to a nice sub off the bench? Who does he compare to in the NBA, past or present?

3) S Curry- Can he get his shot off in the NBA? I think so because he looks like a very good ball handler and is very quick and slick with the ball, accurate?? Can he play point? Defense? Who does he compare to in the NBA, past or present?

4) Thabeet- Looks like the 2nd coming of Mutumbo, accurate? Has he ever shown any offensive skills? Can he gain some? I heard he played soccer, so he should have good foot movement??

5) Any real talented "sleepers" out there? Most under-rated/Most Over-rated players?

6) Will any decent players be around at the 13th pick where my sad but improving Pacers pick? Who would be a good choice for them?

7) Biggest potential "Bust"??

Duncan, Shaq, Yao, Dwight, Garnett, Jefferson, Dirk, Gasol, Peirce, Odom, LeBron, Allen, iverson, Billups, Carmello, DWade, Nash, Kidd, Paul, Williams, Johnson, Manu, Parker, Carter, Rip, etc there are a lot of great players in Kobes era to.

In the years MJ dominated in the 90s was big man driven league like stated before.

I dont see why if you like Bird you hated MJ, MJ couldnt beat birds celtics lol

Mj and Kobe are great. Similar, and Kobe has a good chance to finish with 6 rings to, then i can change my gamespot name to Sixringz2 lol

I dont think anyone that was born in the 90s can call jordan the best, cause it makes no sense to, we didnt really get to see him dominant night in and night out. Of course we all have seen his great games but thats it. which I have seen a lot of them and done my research. But for kids this generation they thing is we see kobe dominant every night, thats why we say it. and it should be a problem cause there two similar players. If there was no MJ then Kobe would be the "MJ."

Kobe has always had the burden of being Jordan cause he is great. and its not fair cause there two great players and there both the best guards of there era. and both are dominating teams the same way.

BLBxLakers24

Man, just when I was trying to be a good boy, let this topic go and let sixringz have his fun...... MJ did not dominate Bird, Magic or Isaiah Thomas! He couldn't get by Bird and Thomas to even get to Magic in his prime. The Jordanaires talk about how MJ stopped some stars from getting rings, MJ was stopped and frustrated by the stars of the 80's. Bird and Magic had the 80's on Lock!, with Thomas getting 2 rings also.

Thomas and Detroit knocked the MJ Bulls out of the playoffs not 1, not 2, but 3 years straight, before the bulls finally beat them. Not quite domination by MJ imo.

See, sixrings, this is the type of "stuff" I fight against.

mont13

Speaking of "going there" concerning Kobe vs MJ, I have'nt checked all the pertinent threads, but did I miss the one where you congratulated Mr. Btyant on his and the Lakers accomplishment?? Sorry if I did miss it, but if not. ...come on now, let's here it ??????;) You can do it:lol:

Oh yeah, too bad Kobe and MJ couldn't meet up in their prime. We only got one view of what might happen in MJ's latter years when Kobe had 42pts on the old man...in the first half! Yeah, shoulda kept yo old"A double S" retired MJ!:P That's why I like Kobe, he's got some "big one's", he straight took it to the old man, "legend" my A2S!:lol:

Now, while I'm sitting here listineing to JT The Brick giving Kobe his props, unlike some people I know, maybe I'll defend my boyPippen and Magic and weigh in on this whole "greatest" thing,...maybe.

mont13

And as for the Wizard Jordan. That whole ordeal was a joke, and i'm the first to admit it. It was a marketing ploy to try to bring players and attention to a struggling franchise. TRUST ME, if he wasn't the GM of the Wizards he would have never played for the them. That right there should show you he came back for the wrong reason. But hey if you wanna play and still can, who am i to judge. cough "brett favre" cough.

As for Kobe having "big one's" for taking it to "nursing home" MJ, he was just one of many. I wish i had video of what Pierce said, but he had an interview where he publicly said before a game he was gonna "give it to him" for lack of a better word.

"Old A double S" and "Legend my A2S!" sure Mont you're not a hater, i believe you:roll:

Ooooohhhhh the drama! :lol: Yo sixingz, sounds like my man is "giving it to you"! :lol:

And looky here, you still trying to suggest that I support lame videos and weak "arguments", come on, your're better than that and should know better than to think that of me. I explained why I posted that stuff and it was the truth, and no, I don't support "propaganda". But I will look at anything to see if it is, in fact, propaganda when I have the time, I didn't that day, so I tossed it to my substitute teacher ;)who promptly started trippin' because someone wasn't bowing at the feet of Michael Jordan like....well anyway.Let's seeeee, what else.....Oh, "bring my "A" game? Why , when my "g" game has sufficed thus far??:P see, I got jokes too...But, you should know, I don't come unless I bring it!

BtW, I don't bash MJ, I just refresh peoples memories and/or enlighten them to the unbiased full facts and sometimes ugly truth about your hero MJ, and in general give "food for thought". But I still may stay out of this. Like you, I've been there before too, about 2 years ago also...coincidence???? Plus , I 'm having too much fun watching dude "give it to you"!:lol: I think you two should get together and go "one on one"! I might pay to see that!

mont13