Obama's Speach: what a liar

[QUOTE="ThaSod"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

I agree. He's probably the best public speaker I have ever heard. That's precisely the problem. He knows exactly what to say, how to say it, and to whom he should say it, and he can answer a myriad of questions without giving a damn answer. He can make any person look at him and smile, and you know who else had this rare gift?

Adolf Hitler

Obama has a pretty message of hope and change, but it is nothing more than a bunch of sweet words directed toward people who don't look past words.

Dracargen

Please think long and hard before you compare someone to Adolf Hitler In general, when you begin using Adolf Hitler to prove your argument, it means you have already lost.

Adolf Hitler used fear and anger to rouse the populace. This is exactly the opposite of Obama's message.

Hitler used peace and hope and change (:o) along with fear and anger. And you missed the point entirely; I said that Obama sounds nice, but so did Hitler Just because he's a good speaker is no reason to vote for him.

now there's a well-foudned argument

[QUOTE="ThaSod"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

I agree. He's probably the best public speaker I have ever heard. That's precisely the problem. He knows exactly what to say, how to say it, and to whom he should say it, and he can answer a myriad of questions without giving a damn answer. He can make any person look at him and smile, and you know who else had this rare gift?

Adolf Hitler

Obama has a pretty message of hope and change, but it is nothing more than a bunch of sweet words directed toward people who don't look past words.

Dracargen

Please think long and hard before you compare someone to Adolf Hitler In general, when you begin using Adolf Hitler to prove your argument, it means you have already lost.

Adolf Hitler used fear and anger to rouse the populace. This is exactly the opposite of Obama's message.

Hitler used peace and hope and change (:o) along with fear and anger. And you missed the point entirely; I said that Obama sounds nice, but so did Hitler Just because he's a good speaker is no reason to vote for him.

And like Obama, Hitler had written a book, called Mein Kampf. And it basically said what he felt, just as Obama has written a couple of books. They give you a limited, but important view into a man's mind.

Then again, Hitler said horrible things publically, good speaker or not. He spouted racist ideals from the beginning, and not only did the people accept them, in general they were the unsung beliefs of the people. Germans of the time were racist, they wanted revenge, and they wanted power. They got it, and most Germans were happy with Hitler and his ideals. They turned the other way as people were dragged to the ovens.

So, are you trying to say that this is the message that Obama is giving out in his speeches. Are you implying that the American people want Hitler Remember, Hitler didn't gain power simply by being a good speaker, he spoke what he would do, and the Germans accepted it.

But either way you swing it, Hitler was not only a good speaker, but a good leader. What this country needs is a good leader, and there are few better tests for a leader than his speaking ability. Obama however isn't telling us to kill the jews, to punish the white man, to continue Jim Crow, or to expand affirmative action. He is saying that we must come together, all of us, as MLK, as Jefferson (who did attempt to put an end to slavery in his day, though no one wanted it), as Jesus has said. It is the words of a good speaker that judge whether or not he is worth following, and the words, the message of Obama is one I certainly can support.

[QUOTE="ThaSod"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

I agree. He's probably the best public speaker I have ever heard. That's precisely the problem. He knows exactly what to say, how to say it, and to whom he should say it, and he can answer a myriad of questions without giving a damn answer. He can make any person look at him and smile, and you know who else had this rare gift?

Adolf Hitler

Obama has a pretty message of hope and change, but it is nothing more than a bunch of sweet words directed toward people who don't look past words.

Dracargen

Please think long and hard before you compare someone to Adolf Hitler In general, when you begin using Adolf Hitler to prove your argument, it means you have already lost.

Adolf Hitler used fear and anger to rouse the populace. This is exactly the opposite of Obama's message.

Hitler used peace and hope and change (:o) along with fear and anger. And you missed the point entirely; I said that Obama sounds nice, but so did Hitler Just because he's a good speaker is no reason to vote for him.

And my point was to not compare someone to Adolf Hitler It's offensive.

And in any case, I am not going to vote for Obama because he is a good speaker. I will vote for him because he truly is the best candidate we have.

[QUOTE="Canvas_Of_Flesh"]

They can't get a job?

Mr_sprinkles

McDonald's doesn't constantly have "now hiring" signs sitting out front? Depends where you look.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="Canvas_Of_Flesh"]

They can't get a job?

Canvas_Of_Flesh

McDonald's doesn't constantly have "now hiring" signs sitting out front? Depends where you look.

[QUOTE="Canvas_Of_Flesh"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="Canvas_Of_Flesh"]

They can't get a job?

Mr_sprinkles

McDonald's doesn't constantly have "now hiring" signs sitting out front? Depends where you look.

Actually yea. I had an apartment and paid for school working full-time for McDonalds. I didn't have a child, but I'm pretty sure you get a major tax break because of that.

My sister for example has 6 kids. She rents a townhouse and raises those six kids while working a full-time job. She gets by on that full-time job and child support/alimony from a deadbeat husband. It can be done...just gotta be willing to show some gumption.

And like Obama, Hitler had written a book, called Mein Kampf. And it basically said what he felt, just as Obama has written a couple of books. They give you a limited, but important view into a man's mind.

Then again, Hitler said horrible things publically, good speaker or not. He spouted racist ideals from the beginning, and not only did the people accept them, in general they were the unsung beliefs of the people. Germans of the time were racist, they wanted revenge, and they wanted power. They got it, and most Germans were happy with Hitler and his ideals. They turned the other way as people were dragged to the ovens.

So, are you trying to say that this is the message that Obama is giving out in his speeches. Are you implying that the American people want Hitler Remember, Hitler didn't gain power simply by being a good speaker, he spoke what he would do, and the Germans accepted it.

But either way you swing it, Hitler was not only a good speaker, but a good leader. What this country needs is a good leader, and there are few better tests for a leader than his speaking ability. Obama however isn't telling us to kill the jews, to punish the white man, to continue Jim Crow, or to expand affirmative action. He is saying that we must come together, all of us, as MLK, as Jefferson (who did attempt to put an end to slavery in his day, though no one wanted it), as Jesus has said. It is the words of a good speaker that judge whether or not he is worth following, and the words, the message of Obama is one I certainly can support.

He's saying things that are similar to the results of a pipe dream. That will never happen, period. Not even Obama can wave a magic wand and make racism go away. Jesus lived two-thousand years ago, and was the single most influential man in human history, and even He didn't fix the human race! I'm pretty sick of feeling guilty for being white, just because some white people (my ancestors came from Poland during WWII, WITHOUT slaves) did decades ago. Slavery is over, and minorities do not have it as hard as people lead you to believe.

And please, PLEASE quit focusing on the Hitler comparison--I already said that the reason I said that was because Obama's way with words is no reason to vote for him.

Insane00

[QUOTE="Insane00"][QUOTE="MarineJcksn"]

Having just listened to the man's speach, I decided to provide one man's opinion on the subject matter.

Full transcript of the speach here.

Senator Obama's speach proved without shadow of a doubt that he clearly has no problem being involved with a hateful anti-american. The fact that he denounces the comments of his "pastor" but doesn't condemn and firmly distance himself from the anti-american trash spewed forth from this false prophet shows me without question that he at least in part condones the behavior of "Rev." Wright. Obama had the arrogance to make the issue primarily about race, rather then discuss the matter at hand like an adult. While it's no secret that Barack Hussein Obama is at the very least partially racist himself (Pg. 273 in his book "Dreams of my Fater" proves this), he misused the opportunity to condemn the words of a radical dispenser of hate-speach and instead merely decided to comment on racism as the majority issue.

Barack Obama fully showed the incompetance of the modern American politician today. Rather then answer tough questions in a straightforward and honest matter, he skewed the arguement to try to deceive foolhearty Americans. You didn't fool me Barack. I see your true colors. And there are millions more like me. :)

pabs013

I really feel sorry for you.

The sad truth is that the general tone and feeling of Mr. Obama's former minister is absolutely accurate. The fact is that in this country, due to the themes of the past that to this day continue, black men and women do not have the opportunity of a white man or woman. Women may have to fight the glass ceiling, but a black man born in the getto is less likely to get our than a woman is to become a doctor or any other profession that 50 years ago no one would have considered a woman for. Look at all the high ranking female scientists, politicians, business people, etc. vs. the fact that it took 2000 for a Muslim to be elected to Congress.

I went to Virginia once, I remember that all our tour guides, our bus drivers, generally everyone we met that had a decent job was a white person. Then I went into a sloppy diner near Williamsburg and guess what, every piss on employee in that place was black, except the white manager. I saw racism, and that was in 1997. Racism lives strong in this country, to this day, and if you don't see it, your living with your eyes closed. Why should we all condemn a minister for telling the truth. Our racism agains muslims, blacks, asians, native americans, etc. has caused a great deal of anger, both internationally and domestically, it is reality, to deny it is obliviousness.

But Obama didn't shove that in our faces, he didn't blame us. He pointed out that there are steps that can be made, in every community, in every aspect of our society that will continue to build this nation and fix the wounds of our past. For crying out loud he quoted Faulkner, who if you read had blatantly racist themes all throughout his works. He pointed out racism from all sides and he showed the unfairness in blond haired, blue eyed white guys like me feeling like we are in some way responsible for our ancestors (Oh, by the way, my great grandma who lived until about 1965 thought that being black was the mark of Cain). He talked to all of us as no politician since MLK and the Kennedy's (Jack and Bobby) has spoken to us.

For once America, open you ears, really listen to the words, they are amazing. All my life I have listened to BS from politicians and I have never in my life heard one speak to us like he does (that includes both Clinton and 'teh great communicator' Reagan). But perhaps if the real risk to Obama is realized you will see the truth in his former ministers statements. Fact is, if Obama wins the presidency and isn't assassinated, or at least shot at, it will be a miracle. That is the real state of racism in this nation.

Obama= superb speaker(no-one can deny that) and yes there is rascism in this country, but there is also sexism...

Whenever a woman is a great bussiness person what do we say? "she slept her way to the top"

Most men think women are "oversensitive", "physically weak" "less intelligent in the Math and Scienses

When a woman takes control and becomes assertive... she is called a (insert acronym for female dog here)

And women are paid less in jobs that men hold as well(even though they do the same am't of work/quality)

Now I'm not saying there is rascism there is... because I can go to any restaurant and order my meal in spanish(I'm mexican) and there will be someone there, I'm not denying that in the "underdeveloped sections" of the city(not Ghetto's, those were for the Holocaust and all the horrible stuff) there is a predominantly black population. but the fact of the matter you are wrong, like rascism there is an astronomical am't of sexism in America, and more-so in the world stage.

Rascism and Sexism are problems in America, they both affect diffrent areas but are equally revolting.

But on the world stage, sexism is more apparent, and to have a woman leading the most powerful country in the world is ("un escalon arriba"), a great improvement.

Obama cheers to you, stick around for a few more years and I think you'll get the gist of how politics work.

I never denied sexism. As far as I am concerned they are all forms of bigotry, whether you are predjudiced against a persons sex, sexual affiliation, race, religion, etc. In fact in the above post I point out religious predjudice in this nation as well as the sexism. Perhaps I am incorrect in my opinion that rscism is far more abundant than sexism in this country in the modern age and that a white woman has a better chance of succeeding than a black man or woman. However I feel this isn't a matter simply of bigotry, but of societal placement. A white woman is simply more likely to be born to parents that can offer more opportunity to her, send her to college, support her struggle through the system. Meanwhile a black child of any persuasion is more likely to be born to parents with less money, less paying jobs, and more likely to live in a single parent household. This is an economic reality of this nation.

I don't mean to make any bigoty out to be better than another, and all must be ended, period. I simply believe that not all bigotry currently has the same impact on our society at large.

edit: I would appreciate it if you refrain from the snide comments about my ignorance of politics. I would argue I'm as well informed as anyone here, but it is a stupid arguement to get into.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="ThaSod"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

I agree. He's probably the best public speaker I have ever heard. That's precisely the problem. He knows exactly what to say, how to say it, and to whom he should say it, and he can answer a myriad of questions without giving a damn answer. He can make any person look at him and smile, and you know who else had this rare gift?

Adolf Hitler

Obama has a pretty message of hope and change, but it is nothing more than a bunch of sweet words directed toward people who don't look past words.

ThaSod

Please think long and hard before you compare someone to Adolf Hitler In general, when you begin using Adolf Hitler to prove your argument, it means you have already lost.

Adolf Hitler used fear and anger to rouse the populace. This is exactly the opposite of Obama's message.

Hitler used peace and hope and change (:o) along with fear and anger. And you missed the point entirely; I said that Obama sounds nice, but so did Hitler Just because he's a good speaker is no reason to vote for him.

And my point was to not compare someone to Adolf Hitler It's offensive.

And in any case, I am not going to vote for Obama because he is a good speaker. I will vote for him because he truly is the best candidate we have.

"It's offensive?"

First, I honestly don't care. For one, I have every right and privilege to say it, regardless of whether or not it hurts someone's feelings. Second, as a man running for president, Obama had better be braced for some offensive criticism.

Secondly, I was not comparing Obama to Hitler.

Thirdly, I am not in the habit of voting for a man who takes his two children to an incredibly racist pastor every Sunday, but vote for whomever you want. I'll vote for the lesser of two evils.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="Canvas_Of_Flesh"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="Canvas_Of_Flesh"]

They can't get a job?

Canvas_Of_Flesh

McDonald's doesn't constantly have "now hiring" signs sitting out front? Depends where you look.

Actually yea. I had an apartment and paid for school working full-time for McDonalds. I didn't have a child, but I'm pretty sure you get a major tax break because of that.

My sister for example has 6 kids. She rents a townhouse and raises those six kids while working a full-time job. She gets by on that full-time job and child support/alimony from a deadbeat husband. It can be done...just gotta be willing to show some gumption.

I don't think welfare should just be handed out to anybody because they can't be bothered to get a job. Neither does the government. Or any government for that matter. Perhaps a little welfare reform is called for. Rethinking who is entitled, and for how long. Maybe spend more money on finding these people jobs, providing necessary training etc, so less money is given to them directly in welfare. But getting rid of it altogether is just stupid.

Darcargen: You said both Obama and Hitler had the rare gift of being a very good speaker. If that is not comparing him to Hitler then we are speaking different languages.

And sure, you have the right to say what you want. I was just asking you to please not compare Obama to Hitler since it is offensive.

Darcargen: You said both Obama and Hitler had the rare gift of being a very good speaker. If that is not comparing him to Hitler then we are speaking different languages.

And sure, you have the right to say what you want. I was just asking you to please not compare Obama to Hitler since it is offensive.

ThaSod

Do you know why I made that comparison? To demonstrate the FACT that politicians lie, and the FACT that pretty speeches can be and often are mere cloaks for something less than appealing to the general audience.

It is in that sense, and ONLY in that sense, that I was comparing him to Hitler.

We already had welfare reform, remember the 90's?

We now spend less on welfare for our own people than we do on military aid for Israel.

Darcargen: You said both Obama and Hitler had the rare gift of being a very good speaker. If that is not comparing him to Hitler then we are speaking different languages.

And sure, you have the right to say what you want. I was just asking you to please not compare Obama to Hitler since it is offensive.

ThaSod

[QUOTE="ThaSod"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="ThaSod"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

I agree. He's probably the best public speaker I have ever heard. That's precisely the problem. He knows exactly what to say, how to say it, and to whom he should say it, and he can answer a myriad of questions without giving a damn answer. He can make any person look at him and smile, and you know who else had this rare gift?

Adolf Hitler

Obama has a pretty message of hope and change, but it is nothing more than a bunch of sweet words directed toward people who don't look past words.

Dracargen

Please think long and hard before you compare someone to Adolf Hitler In general, when you begin using Adolf Hitler to prove your argument, it means you have already lost.

Adolf Hitler used fear and anger to rouse the populace. This is exactly the opposite of Obama's message.

Hitler used peace and hope and change (:o) along with fear and anger. And you missed the point entirely; I said that Obama sounds nice, but so did Hitler Just because he's a good speaker is no reason to vote for him.

And my point was to not compare someone to Adolf Hitler It's offensive.

And in any case, I am not going to vote for Obama because he is a good speaker. I will vote for him because he truly is the best candidate we have.

I live in Canada so I don't really care but personally, I want Hilary to be a president. (don't try to bash me since I have no knowledge on this at all).bloody1f4knight

Blasphemy! I'm Canadian as well, and I want Obama.

I think you both said they are good public speakers, so you kind of did compare them. cool_baller

And I believe an Obama supporter compared them in the sense that they both wrote books. :|

Oh and I hate the Dems plan of a quick withrawal... we made a mess, we have to clean it up... no matter if it takes.... 10 years(100 is too much), If we leave it like it is the US would lose so much prestige in the world stage, and the US can't afford to lose it.pabs013

[QUOTE="Insane00"]

And like Obama, Hitler had written a book, called Mein Kampf. And it basically said what he felt, just as Obama has written a couple of books. They give you a limited, but important view into a man's mind.

Then again, Hitler said horrible things publically, good speaker or not. He spouted racist ideals from the beginning, and not only did the people accept them, in general they were the unsung beliefs of the people. Germans of the time were racist, they wanted revenge, and they wanted power. They got it, and most Germans were happy with Hitler and his ideals. They turned the other way as people were dragged to the ovens.

So, are you trying to say that this is the message that Obama is giving out in his speeches. Are you implying that the American people want Hitler Remember, Hitler didn't gain power simply by being a good speaker, he spoke what he would do, and the Germans accepted it.

But either way you swing it, Hitler was not only a good speaker, but a good leader. What this country needs is a good leader, and there are few better tests for a leader than his speaking ability. Obama however isn't telling us to kill the jews, to punish the white man, to continue Jim Crow, or to expand affirmative action. He is saying that we must come together, all of us, as MLK, as Jefferson (who did attempt to put an end to slavery in his day, though no one wanted it), as Jesus has said. It is the words of a good speaker that judge whether or not he is worth following, and the words, the message of Obama is one I certainly can support.

Dracargen

He's saying things that are similar to the results of a pipe dream. That will never happen, period. Not even Obama can wave a magic wand and make racism go away. Jesus lived two-thousand years ago, and was the single most influential man in human history, and even He didn't fix the human race! I'm pretty sick of feeling guilty for being white, just because some white people (my ancestors came from Poland during WWII, WITHOUT slaves) did decades ago. Slavery is over, and minorities do not have it as hard as people lead you to believe.

And please, PLEASE quit focusing on the Hitler comparison--I already said that the reason I said that was because Obama's way with words is no reason to vote for him.

He never said he could. If you listened to his speech he blatantly says that he isn't saying that after one term, or one president that the problem of racism will go away. He says that. He never claims to want to wave a magic wand. He simply says that we, us, you and I, have the ability to face the problem and try to fix it, to grow. As he says, 'this nation will probably never be perfect, but each generation has shown that it can be perfected' In other words, no, all the problems won't go away, but we can work together to make things better. Jesus gave us the first vision of how to make ourselves better, of how treat one another, as again Obama points out. He didn't perfect the world, he taught us how we could (though I doubt it will ever happen).

Do you honestly think that 'some people' lead me to believe that minorities have it bad? Dude I know minorities, I have seen, time and again just how bad they do have it. I live in alargely mexican state. I grew up in a poor white family (single mother making under 20 grand a year, then a remarried father whose household brought in less than 30 grand a year with 4 kids) and I had it easy compared to the minorities I have known, seen, and observed. Do you think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of people living in low income housing are minorities? Do you think it is chance that most gang members are minorities? When you have to get a job at 16, not to drive a car but to help mom feed your siblings, how likely is it that someday you're gonna make over 50 grand a year. I had to work my butt off to get to where I am with a chance for becoming successful, how much more difficult is it for kids that never even see their parents.

I brought up the Hitler thing because, well, I disagree. The fact that Obama is a good speaker is a very important reason to support him because he has the power to inspire people. Look at other great speakers of our country, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Lincoln, Jackson, FDR, Kennedy, MLK, heck, I'll even throw in Reagan cause he managed to lead us to an end of the Cold War. Look at History in general, great speakers are generally great leaders, and that is what we need. As I said, even Hitler was a great leader, though he was rotten. But you have to listen to what your leaders say in their great speeches, not just go along with them because they speak well. Again, what I hear is worth supporting.

[QUOTE="cool_baller"]I think you both said they are good public speakers, so you kind of did compare them. Dracargen

And I believe an Obama supporter compared them in the sense that they both wrote books. :|

Indeed I did, way to take my comments out of context, but I did it in response to what you said, pointing out that in both cases the people listening to this 'good speaker' had the opportunity to know what they were getting into. But then again, the German people wanted what Hitler wanted, and the oppressed minority were oppressed by the people as much as they were by the government. The Night of Broken Glass' was an act of the populous inspired by Hitlers word, not an act of the Government in which the people pretended like it didn't happen.

Please don't use my words to try to get out of your previous statement in which you asserted you did not compare Obama to Hitler.

He never said he could. If you listened to his speech he blatantly says that he isn't saying that after one term, or one president that the problem of racism will go away. He says it, he never claims to want to wave a magic wand. He simply says that we, us, you and I, have the ability to face the problem and try to fix it, to grow. As he says, 'this nation will probably never be perfect, but each generation has shown that it can be perfected' In other words, no, all the problems won't go away, but we can work together to make things better. Jesus gave us the first vision of how to make ourselves better, of how treat one another, as again Obama points out. He didn't perfect the world, he taught us how we could (though I doubt it will ever happen).

And what does Obama have to say that hasn't been said, thousands of times throughout history, by people who will forever be more influential than he? What does Obama plan to do to bring us a little step closer to perfection? Putting a black man in the White House is only putting a black man in the White House; It isn't bringing racism one step closer to an end, and Obama has no more chance of doing that than any white president.

Is he going to fix the economy? Great, but will that help racism? People will still be discriminated against, and people will still have poor jobs and poor families and poor healthcare, and they will still have problems, and they will still continue to blame those problems on racism rather than going out and getting decent jobs and doing something about it.

Do you honestly think that 'some people' lead me to believe that minorities have it bad? Dude I know minorities, I have seen, time and again just how bad they do have it. I live in alargely mexican state. I grew up in a poor white family (single mother making under 20 grand a year, then a remarried father whose household brought in less than 30 grand a year with 4 kids) and I had it easy compared to the minorities I have known, seen, and observed. Do you think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of people living in low income housing are minorities? Do you think it is chance that most gang members are minorities? When you have to get a job at 16, not to drive a car but to help mom feed your siblings, how likely is it that someday you're gonna make over 50 grand a year. I had to work my butt off to get to where I am with a chance for becoming successful, how much more difficult is it for kids that never even see their parents.

Do I think it is chance that minorities are more likely to have poorer lives? I don't know, but I do not think it is due to racism. Being white is not an automatic pass into wealth and happiness, and being a minority in America is not an automatic "No, I don't think you're right for the job." because, as anyone can see, there are many minorities with high-paying jobs, great lives, benefits, and families.

When you have to get a job at 16 in order to feed your family, that is not due to racism but to poor economic status. The economy is not run by old, white men who secretly own African slaves. The economy is an idea, a system; not a man with a prejudiced view of the world.

I brought up the Hitler thing because, well, I disagree. The fact that Obama is a good speaker is a very important reason to support him because he has the power to inspire people. Look at other great speakers of our country, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Lincoln, Jackson, FDR, Kennedy, MLK, heck, I'll even throw in Reagan cause he managed to lead us to an end of the Cold War. Look at History in general, great speakers are generally great leaders, and that is what we need. As I said, even Hitler was a great leader, though he was rotten. But you have to listen to what your leaders say in their great speeches, not just go along with them because they speak well. Again, what I hear is worth supporting.

And what I hear sounds like a dream that cannot be realised. Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Castro, Bin-Laden, all of these men are/were also great speakers, and are also rotten. They all appeal to what the public wants at the time, and either bring something completely different under the guise of a taste of what the promised, or simply keep promising until the public realises they made a mistake, which is what I feel will happen with Obama, whether he becomes the next Great Dictator or just another politician that bit off more than he can chew.

Insane00

Maybe Obama was telling the truth that his preacher plays a very important role in his politics.

Maybe Obama was telling the truth that his preacher plays a very important role in his politics.

SentryGunner411

I think he said his preacher does not play an imprtant role in his politics.

[QUOTE="bloody1f4knight"]I live in Canada so I don't really care but personally, I want Hilary to be a president. (don't try to bash me since I have no knowledge on this at all).SSCyborg

Blasphemy! I'm Canadian as well, and I want Obama.

Good...you can have him. We'll elect someone else.

[QUOTE="SentryGunner411"]

Maybe Obama was telling the truth that his preacher plays a very important role in his politics.

Cube_of_MooN

I think he said his preacher does not play an imprtant role in his politics.

That's not what I heard....

He said his preacher plays as important role in his life as if he were a family member. He compared his importance to receiving wisdom from his grandparents. ;)

I hope you can't vote
Just because the are "millions more like me" doesn't make you any more intelligent, stop posting please.

Having just listened to the man's speach, I decided to provide one man's opinion on the subject matter.

Full transcript of the speach here.

Senator Obama's speach proved without shadow of a doubt that he clearly has no problem being involved with a hateful anti-american. The fact that he denounces the comments of his "pastor" but doesn't condemn and firmly distance himself from the anti-american trash spewed forth from this false prophet shows me without question that he at least in part condones the behavior of "Rev." Wright. Obama had the arrogance to make the issue primarily about race, rather then discuss the matter at hand like an adult. While it's no secret that Barack Hussein Obama is at the very least partially racist himself (Pg. 273 in his book "Dreams of my Fater" proves this), he misused the opportunity to condemn the words of a radical dispenser of hate-speach and instead merely decided to comment on racism as the majority issue.

Barack Obama fully showed the incompetance of the modern American politician today. Rather then answer tough questions in a straightforward and honest matter, he skewed the arguement to try to deceive foolhearty Americans. You didn't fool me Barack. I see your true colors. And there are millions more like me. :)

MarineJcksn

1st bold = ironic how you mentioned his full name like that

2nd bold = after the dibocle that is the bush administration, i think we'd be happy with ANYONE. in fact, we'd be better off with someone who doesnt have american patriotism shoved so far up their butt that they fail to view what is 2 feet in front of them. jeez.

I love how people that dont like Obama are like "I hate barackHUSSEIN obama."

If you dont like him, thats your business, but I dont come onto the forums and write topic filled with anti Hillary or Mccain rhetoric every day. And why should I trust your opinion? You cant even spell speech.

[QUOTE="MarineJcksn"]

Having just listened to the man's speach, I decided to provide one man's opinion on the subject matter.

Full transcript of the speach here.

Senator Obama's speach proved without shadow of a doubt that he clearly has no problem being involved with a hateful anti-american. The fact that he denounces the comments of his "pastor" but doesn't condemn and firmly distance himself from the anti-american trash spewed forth from this false prophet shows me without question that he at least in part condones the behavior of "Rev." Wright. Obama had the arrogance to make the issue primarily about race, rather then discuss the matter at hand like an adult. While it's no secret that Barack Hussein Obama is at the very least partially racist himself (Pg. 273 in his book "Dreams of my Fater" proves this), he misused the opportunity to condemn the words of a radical dispenser of hate-speach and instead merely decided to comment on racism as the majority issue.

Barack Obama fully showed the incompetance of the modern American politician today. Rather then answer tough questions in a straightforward and honest matter, he skewed the arguement to try to deceive foolhearty Americans. You didn't fool me Barack. I see your true colors. And there are millions more like me. :)

icarus212001

1st bold = ironic how you mentioned his full name like that

2nd bold = after the dibocle that is the bush administration, i think we'd be happy with ANYONE. in fact, we'd be better off with someone who doesnt have american patriotism shoved so far up their butt that they fail to view what is 2 feet in front of them. jeez.

What Bush did was NOT in way for patriotism. It was his own agenda....:|

wow dude.. you should go work for fox news.

comp_atkins

I was rather indifferent towards Obama's speech today. Actions speak louder than words and the action of going to that wackjob's church for 20 years means more than almost any words he can speak. I'm not saying I think Obama necessarily shares Wright's viewpoints but going to that church calls at the very least his judgment into question. After this situation with Wright it's clear to me that Clinton is now by far the safer choice for the democrats.espoac

I agree with you....that's twice now.:|

[QUOTE="Cube_of_MooN"][QUOTE="SentryGunner411"]

Maybe Obama was telling the truth that his preacher plays a very important role in his politics.

SentryGunner411

I think he said his preacher does not play an imprtant role in his politics.

That's not what I heard....

He said his preacher plays as important role in his life as if he were a family member. He compared his importance to receiving wisdom from his grandparents. ;)

Which does not mean he takes political advice from him. If he publically anounced doing so, his campaign would die quickly.

I love how people that dont like Obama are like "I hate barackHUSSEIN obama."

If you dont like him, thats your business, but I dont come onto the forums and write topic filled with anti Hillary or Mccain rhetoric every day. And why should I trust your opinion? You cant even spell speech.

hillelslovak

[QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

I love how people that dont like Obama are like "I hate barackHUSSEIN obama."

If you dont like him, thats your business, but I dont come onto the forums and write topic filled with anti Hillary or Mccain rhetoric every day. And why should I trust your opinion? You cant even spell speech.

espoac

I said that I dont write any anti Hilary crap, not that Ive never seen any.

[QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

I love how people that dont like Obama are like "I hate barackHUSSEIN obama."

If you dont like him, thats your business, but I dont come onto the forums and write topic filled with anti Hillary or Mccain rhetoric every day. And why should I trust your opinion? You cant even spell speech.

espoac

You need to edit out the "b." ;)

[QUOTE="espoac"]I was rather indifferent towards Obama's speech today. Actions speak louder than words and the action of going to that wackjob's church for 20 years means more than almost any words he can speak. I'm not saying I think Obama necessarily shares Wright's viewpoints but going to that church calls at the very least his judgment into question. After this situation with Wright it's clear to me that Clinton is now by far the safer choice for the democrats.LJS9502_basic

I agree with you....that's twice now.:|

[QUOTE="Insane00"]

He never said he could. If you listened to his speech he blatantly says that he isn't saying that after one term, or one president that the problem of racism will go away. He says it, he never claims to want to wave a magic wand. He simply says that we, us, you and I, have the ability to face the problem and try to fix it, to grow. As he says, 'this nation will probably never be perfect, but each generation has shown that it can be perfected' In other words, no, all the problems won't go away, but we can work together to make things better. Jesus gave us the first vision of how to make ourselves better, of how treat one another, as again Obama points out. He didn't perfect the world, he taught us how we could (though I doubt it will ever happen).

And what does Obama have to say that hasn't been said, thousands of times throughout history, by people who will forever be more influential than he? What does Obama plan to do to bring us a little step closer to perfection? Putting a black man in the White House is only putting a black man in the White House; It isn't bringing racism one step closer to an end, and Obama has no more chance of doing that than any white president.

Is he going to fix the economy? Great, but will that help racism? People will still be discriminated against, and people will still have poor jobs and poor families and poor healthcare, and they will still have problems, and they will still continue to blame those problems on racism rather than going out and getting decent jobs and doing something about it.

Do you honestly think that 'some people' lead me to believe that minorities have it bad? Dude I know minorities, I have seen, time and again just how bad they do have it. I live in alargely mexican state. I grew up in a poor white family (single mother making under 20 grand a year, then a remarried father whose household brought in less than 30 grand a year with 4 kids) and I had it easy compared to the minorities I have known, seen, and observed. Do you think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of people living in low income housing are minorities? Do you think it is chance that most gang members are minorities? When you have to get a job at 16, not to drive a car but to help mom feed your siblings, how likely is it that someday you're gonna make over 50 grand a year. I had to work my butt off to get to where I am with a chance for becoming successful, how much more difficult is it for kids that never even see their parents.

Do I think it is chance that minorities are more likely to have poorer lives? I don't know, but I do not think it is due to racism. Being white is not an automatic pass into wealth and happiness, and being a minority in America is not an automatic "No, I don't think you're right for the job." because, as anyone can see, there are many minorities with high-paying jobs, great lives, benefits, and families.

When you have to get a job at 16 in order to feed your family, that is not due to racism but to poor economic status. The economy is not run by old, white men who secretly own African slaves. The economy is an idea, a system; not a man with a prejudiced view of the world.

I brought up the Hitler thing because, well, I disagree. The fact that Obama is a good speaker is a very important reason to support him because he has the power to inspire people. Look at other great speakers of our country, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Lincoln, Jackson, FDR, Kennedy, MLK, heck, I'll even throw in Reagan cause he managed to lead us to an end of the Cold War. Look at History in general, great speakers are generally great leaders, and that is what we need. As I said, even Hitler was a great leader, though he was rotten. But you have to listen to what your leaders say in their great speeches, not just go along with them because they speak well. Again, what I hear is worth supporting.

And what I hear sounds like a dream that cannot be realised. Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Castro, Bin-Laden, all of these men are/were also great speakers, and are also rotten. They all appeal to what the public wants at the time, and either bring something completely different under the guise of a taste of what the promised, or simply keep promising until the public realises they made a mistake, which is what I feel will happen with Obama, whether he becomes the next Great Dictator or just another politician that bit off more than he can chew.

Dracargen

It's called read the stuff on his website. While I will admit, there is no real stand out difference between his plan and Hillary's (or even Edward's for that matter) the fact that they are so similar indicate that he has as much chance to lead and change this nation as she does. As for McCain, well any man willing to alter his positions as dramatically as he has since his 2000 bid for presidency simply to get the nomination I feel is much less trustworthy than a man that, by the record has worked his entire career to making this country a better place to live.

But I digress, you want to know how he has a chance at fixing racism, the same way any other politician can fix racism. It isn't government, it is legislation, it is inspiration. Racism is a social problem, not one that can be fixed with laws, and as I have stated a man who can speak and inspire people to want to change has more chance at it than anyone else on the stump right now.

Why would minorities have worse lives? Your post implies that I think that old white men are pulling the strings. That has nothing to do with it. History has everything to do with it. It is a fact that slaver ended only a mere 143 years ago, that is only 4 generations. It is a fact that when slavery ended in this country the black individuals were given almost nothing to survive on. It is a fact that up until 1965 the likelihood of a black man in this country getting a job that paid more than poverty level wages was next to impossible (real To Kill a Mockingbird). It is a fact that racism has kept black individuals, mexican individuals, and even asian individuals in this country from earning well paying jobs until at least the 1970's. All of this has reprocussions. As a society we don't simply say 'OK, racism is over' or 'Ok, now people can't descriminate in education and the workplace' and all of a sudden everyone is on a level playing field. When the tides of racism began to turn, do you think that all of a sudden the black people of this nation were suddenly better educated, better skilled, that they had suddenly become skilled labor when they had been forced to remain in unskilled labor positions for 100+ years. No, they had to keep working those low paying jobs because it was the only thing they could do. They couldn't quit to go to school again, cause then who feeds the kids. This continues onto the next generation, whose statuse will improve due to the change, but they still have to work out of the conditions of their parents. That is part of society. No, no one is pulling the strings and keeping minorities down, but the conditions of the past help create the conditions of the present. This is a reality every student of history knows. And the reality is that the racism that you and I had nothing to do with none the less hurt the young black childeren growing up right now. Indeed it is likely to be this way for at least another 25 year because of the mess we caused with 300 years of slavery and 100 years of blatant, putrid racism.

And this country was founded on Checks and Balances. Obama has no more chance of becoming a dictator than Bush had despite all the angry angry liberals that has said he could be or is. At worst, Obama will fail miserably at achieving his goals, but this country's government was too well founded for any official to lead it like a king. Remember, this is America, not the crumbling Russian Empire, not the misserably weak Chinese Republic, not a rag tag bunch of religious extremists, and not a puppet of the USSR put in place to frighten thier greatest enemy. We do not fall to dictators, we eat them for lunch and make fun of them on national television. And as I said before, the words of a speaker when we listen to them, help tell us their ideals. I was frightened of Bush before he was elected, and I told countless fools in early 2000 that they would regret their choice, that he would make poor decisions, it was all in his words. Obama's words are not foolish, they are not angry, they are not racist, they are hopeful and inspiring, pure and simple. And he is not the leader of a revelution, the self imposed dictator that results form as massive change in government that most of the names you cited were. He is an elected official, an offical bound by the law as all of us are, a law that he has always showed respect for in each and every word. For you to compare him to all of these people shows just how unaware you are of how our government work and how each of those dictators came into power. Obama has never threaten to destroy the structure of our government, but to uphold it, honoring the men that created it and the opportunity it has given him. There is no reason whatsoever to compare him to some of history's worst individuals.

I said that I dont write any anti Hilary crap, not that Ive never seen any.

hillelslovak

Then why only complain about anti Obama threads?

I hope you can't vote
Just because the are "millions more like me" doesn't make you any more intelligent, stop posting please.

Mormaso

Anyone could say the same thing right back at you. There are plenty who love Obama however, that "doesn't make you any more intelligent". So I just used your argument right back at you... I don't think your argument is that strong then... Is it?

[QUOTE="espoac"][QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

I love how people that dont like Obama are like "I hate barackHUSSEIN obama."

If you dont like him, thats your business, but I dont come onto the forums and write topic filled with anti Hillary or Mccain rhetoric every day. And why should I trust your opinion? You cant even spell speech.

hillelslovak

I said that I dont write any anti Hilary crap, not that Ive never seen any.

[QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

I said that I dont write any anti Hilary crap, not that Ive never seen any.

LJS9502_basic

Then why only complain about anti Obama threads?

All Im saying is its okay to not like a candidate, you dont need to keep hammering your opinions into the ground on the forums.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

I said that I dont write any anti Hilary crap, not that Ive never seen any.

hillelslovak

Then why only complain about anti Obama threads?

All Im saying is its okay to not like a candidate, you dont need to keep hammering your opinions into the ground on the forums.

It's an election year....would you prefer the usual religion/girl threads?

I was rather indifferent towards Obama's speech today. Actions speak louder than words and the action of going to that wackjob's church for 20 years means more than almost any words he can speak. I'm not saying I think Obama necessarily shares Wright's viewpoints but going to that church calls at the very least his judgment into question. After this situation with Wright it's clear to me that Clinton is now by far the safer choice for the democrats.espoac

I find it interesting that we get one or two couple minute long clips from a guys obviously worked up ministry, that say some off color things and the guy is a 'wack job'. I mean, just cause you don't agree with everything a person thinks or believes does that mean that everything they say is worthless. Should I ignore conservative viewpoints because I'm a liberal. Should I reject any pro-life individual's opinion because I am pro-choice. I think it is perfectly accepable to respect and listen to someone and not agree with some if not much of what they say.

For instance my best friend in high school was a conservative catholic while I was a non-denominational liberal. We talked religion and politics almost every day for two years but that doesn't mean that at heart I am/was either conservative or Catholic.

[QUOTE="hillelslovak"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hillelslovak"]

I said that I dont write any anti Hilary crap, not that Ive never seen any.

LJS9502_basic

Then why only complain about anti Obama threads?

All Im saying is its okay to not like a candidate, you dont need to keep hammering your opinions into the ground on the forums.

It's an election year....would you prefer the usual religion/girl threads?

Good point, at least we are discussing something constructive.

[QUOTE="espoac"]I was rather indifferent towards Obama's speech today. Actions speak louder than words and the action of going to that wackjob's church for 20 years means more than almost any words he can speak. I'm not saying I think Obama necessarily shares Wright's viewpoints but going to that church calls at the very least his judgment into question. After this situation with Wright it's clear to me that Clinton is now by far the safer choice for the democrats.Insane00

I find it interesting that we get one or two couple minute long clips from a guys obviously worked up ministry, that say some off color things and the guy is a 'wack job'. I mean, just cause you don't agree with everything a person thinks or believes does that mean that everything they say is worthless. Should I ignore conservative viewpoints because I'm a liberal. Should I reject any pro-life individual's opinion because I am pro-choice. I think it is perfectly accepable to respect and listen to someone and not agree with some if not much of what they say.

For instance my best friend in high school was a conservative catholic while I was a non-denominational liberal. We talked religion and politics almost every day for two years but that doesn't mean that at heart I am/was either conservative or Catholic.