Good-Bye Nintendo (Part II) - Lying About Innovation

Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.sam280992

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

[QUOTE="sam280992"]Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.Tylendal

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

Exactly. And if you think about what Nintendo did, it was about pleasing the industry and the companies. They could have shown a small trailer of an upcoming Mario or a Zelda game, but they didn't.

[QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

I think we are missig the point. Just because Ninty decided not to show its games, it doesn't mean they are no having good games.

Show =/= have.

We all know about Mad World, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin 3, Kid Icarus, etc etc. And, of course, the nice interview of IGN with Miyamoto:

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/890/890276p1.html

Tylendal

THIS.

It's not like Nintendo came out and canceled all their other games.

They just chose to only show off their casual games.

Why do people not understand this? It's a business summit, not a fan-service party. Besides, when has Nintendo ever made pre-rendered trailers. It's always about gameplay footage. You can not tell me that they haven't been working on Animal Crossing for years. And another thing? Every game they announced is coming out in less than a year. They don't announce things until they're almost ready.

Because for understanding something it is needed a little thinking + a little research. None of them are common here in SW.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

What I still don't understand, if we ALL here know about the new Zelda beig developed, about Pikmin 3, about Kid Icarus, about Mad World, about Tales fo Symphonia, where's exactly is the problem thet they didn't show it?

IronBass

Nintendo told us "we don't have time to show you the games here" - but they DID have time to spend 10 minutes discussing sales. Nintendo said "we're focusing on games that showcase our innovation" then showed us a slew of sequels. It's not about whether or not Nintendo will eventually release another Zelda or Mario title - that's inevitable - the problem is that the FOCUS of Nintendo is not on their veteran gamers, that Nintendo thinks AC & GTA are "enough" for what they call "veteran" gamers, and that the *focus* of their press conferences, marketing, and system has been against their most innovative titles.

Nintendo would rather push Wii Music and Wii Sports 2 than help give games like the Conduit, Mad World, or whatever their other teams are working on (likely a casualized Zelda, unfortunately). And when we complain? They say "oh at some point in the future, you may get Zelda & Mario". No ****, of course at some point in the future, but if it's not your *primary focus*, if you're totally clueless on what core gamers want (as Reggie is - see his interview with Morgan Webb for evidence), and you spend a pre-show conference that *only hardcore gamers & journalists watch* to show me Wii Fit Snowboarding or Rayman party games, yet never show the games we *actually came to see* you deserve nothing but disgust from the true gaming community.

You can argue it whatever way you like - by not focusing on those games, and by not helping the third parties get decent media exposure, Nintendo lines their pockets by presenting that "party system" image they want, and dooms developers to poor sales who actually want to make a game longtime gamers can care about.

So, your point is that Nintendo should be blamed for focusing its conference on the casuals that gave them the leadership of the market? Yes, they decided to focus on the business side of a business conference. Do you feel betrayed just for that? I, honestly, don't.

Will that stop them for making good games? No.

And sorry, if third party devs want to make money inthe Wii, they should start making good games. It is Nintendo's fault that devs are too lazy for using all the Wii's great feautures? Nope. NMH, RE 4 and Zack and Wiki prove that.

Actually I don't catch your point. The conference doesn't affect us, gamers, because we will getting good games anyway.

What good games do we have to look forward to from Nintendo?

This is the bleakest upcoming Nintendo first party lineup I've ever seen. As Nintendo realizes they make much more profit with much less effort creating less traditional experiences, they'll begin reallocating more and more resources to casual gaming.

Sure, Nintendo is still good for a great game every year, but these games will be released more and more sporadically. Nintendo is a business, and they don't care about hardcore gamers if casual gamers will make them much more money.

And both NMH and Zak and Wiki sold about 1/4 as much as Carnival games on the Wii, what does that tell you about the userbase? And don't you think developers will figure it out, too?

They have, and that's why we're getting Activision's "Wee First" lineup, Ubisoft's shovelware, and Wii Sports Resort! I think its personally reasonable for us Nintendo fans to feel betrayed.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.Tylendal

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

Well that's the problem with the "new" E3, it's more about impressing the industry (particularly the retail side) than impressing the fans. So rather than seeing MS, Nintendo and Sony try to one-up eachother by making the biggest splash, we get a bunch of presentations trying to convince the guys at EB/Gamestop, Best Buy and Wal-Mart to buy a couple hundred thousand more units of X, Y and Z. Why bother hyping the new Zelda when you can hype a game like Wii Sports Resort that will not only sell millions of copies on its own, but millions of Wii Motion Plus adaptors?

KOTORkicker

You are spot-on there my friend.

First, people have to understand how the market works.

Model 1:

Console Developer And/Or Publisher Sell Merchandise To Retailers. Developer/Publisher Gets Immediate Return.

Model 2 :

Console Developer And/Or Publisher Sell Merchandise To Retailers. Merchandise Is Sold. Cut Of Profits Made Goes To Developer/Publisher After Units/Games Are Sold.

_____________________________________________

Now, Model 1 is by far the most popular, because the Step 1 Seller gets an immediate return (And a promised one, at that) on their investment. Model 2 is unpopular simply because there are no risks with Model 2 in comparison.

This means that companies don't actually have to sell Consoles/Games directly to a customer, and can sell by the truckload easily. This is also one of the reasons why the Console Industry is so profitable. (Console sales statistics are also tallied in this way.)

It's killing third party core games on the Wii though. Sudo 51 was talking about it, and I have to agree - Nintendo owes it to their third parties to get them front-and-center, and convince retailers to make those games sell. There need to be in-store displays for those games, big retailer pushes, and yes, conference spotlights. Rayman party games and yet-another Star Wars title should not get priority over the innovative titles Nintendo claims to be in favor of. I don't care WHO the conference was for, there's no excuse.

Many Wii gamers here mention those games when asked what they like, but turn around and say "Nintendo is a business, they show X Y and Z for profit." Well, isn't a licensing fee a licensing fee? Based on their comments (from the likes of Reggie) it's really a tough time to be someone who's hoping to use the Wiimote to truly advance gaming. When Sega is publishing more creative core titles than the much-larger Nintendo, there's a problem.

[QUOTE="sam280992"]Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.Tylendal

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

Nintendo failed this gen with the Wii IMO.

Obviously they didn't fail at selling consoles and making money but IMO they failed at making videogames.DireToad

What good games do we have to look forward to from Nintendo?

This is the bleakest upcoming Nintendo first party lineup I've ever seen. As Nintendo realizes they make much more profit with much less effort creating less traditional experiences, they'll begin reallocating more and more resources to casual gaming.

Sure, Nintendo is still good for a great game every year, but these games will be released more and more sporadically. Nintendo is a business, and they don't care about hardcore gamers if casual gamers will make them much more money.

And both NMH and Zak and Wiki sold about 1/4 as much as Carnival games on the Wii, what does that tell you about the userbase? And don't you think developers will figure it out, too?

They have, and that's why we're getting Activision's "Wee First" lineup, Ubisoft's shovelware, and Wii Sports Resort! I think its personally reasonable for us Nintendo fans to feel betrayed.

Vyyral

Nintendo just came from their biggest released blowout ever, MP3, SMG, MK, Brawl, all release within months, Nintendo have released more Hardcore games in the first years of the Wii than they did for both, N64 and GC.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

I think we are missig the point. Just because Ninty decided not to show its games, it doesn't mean they are no having good games.

Show =/= have.

We all know about Mad World, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin 3, Kid Icarus, etc etc. And, of course, the nice interview of IGN with Miyamoto:

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/890/890276p1.html

IronBass

THIS.

It's not like Nintendo came out and canceled all their other games.

They just chose to only show off their casual games.

Why do people not understand this? It's a business summit, not a fan-service party. Besides, when has Nintendo ever made pre-rendered trailers. It's always about gameplay footage. You can not tell me that they haven't been working on Animal Crossing for years. And another thing? Every game they announced is coming out in less than a year. They don't announce things until they're almost ready.

Because for understanding something it is needed a little thinking + a little research. None of them are common here in SW.

I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.Blue-Sphere

I think Nintendo wants to sell more Wiis, more accessories, and more high-profit games like Wii Fit to their casual / non-traditional fanbase. I feel they're doing that at the expense of giving precious press time and shelf space to the innovative third-parties they claim to be in favor of, and the veteran gamers they care to claim about. The market has room to grow, but I've felt for the past few years that core gamers are being increasngly marginalized in Nintendo's grand plan.

[QUOTE="sam280992"]Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.Tylendal

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

The thing about a new Zelda or Mario is that without a video or even a screenshot it is just a rumor.

Yes, the conferences were about trying to get stores to buy many games, but this time is for showing off your games. You can act like little kids believing Nintendo when they talk about Santa Clause...I mean Pikmin, I will be playing games.

I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

Vyyral

Obviously everyone is going to love Wii Music.

[QUOTE="Vyyral"]

What good games do we have to look forward to from Nintendo?

This is the bleakest upcoming Nintendo first party lineup I've ever seen. As Nintendo realizes they make much more profit with much less effort creating less traditional experiences, they'll begin reallocating more and more resources to casual gaming.

Sure, Nintendo is still good for a great game every year, but these games will be released more and more sporadically. Nintendo is a business, and they don't care about hardcore gamers if casual gamers will make them much more money.

And both NMH and Zak and Wiki sold about 1/4 as much as Carnival games on the Wii, what does that tell you about the userbase? And don't you think developers will figure it out, too?

They have, and that's why we're getting Activision's "Wee First" lineup, Ubisoft's shovelware, and Wii Sports Resort! I think its personally reasonable for us Nintendo fans to feel betrayed.

loco145

Nintendo just came from their biggest released blowout ever, MP3, SMG, MK, Brawl, all release within months, Nintendo have released more Hardcore games in the first years of the Wii than they did for both, N64 and GC.

I agree with you, we have had some excellent games on the Wii thus far. I'm not angry about what's happened in the past, I'm worried about the future outlook.

I can't remember ever having no huge Nintendo first party game to salivate over. Right now, I have nothing. Animal Crossing isn't enough.

Nintendo said it themselves, a "paradigm shift" is occuring, away from us and towards the expanded audience. And I'm unhappy about this. The prospect of having fewer amazing Nintendo games released makes me a little sad.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]

[QUOTE="sam280992"]Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.Darthmatt

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

Nintendo have never released pre-rendered stuff. Perhaps some game concepts demos (real time rendered), but no pre-render stuff. That's the way they do stuff.

What, your a subscribing member but you havn't changed the colour of your username ????

That's the only reason i'd ever subscribe, i'm weak :(

Also good post as usual, i couldn't agree more....

[QUOTE="Vyyral"]I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

subrosian

Obviously everyone is going to love Wii Music.

Maybe Nintendo has more announcements to come. SSBB wasn't announced on day one either.

If E3 was over I could see a reason to be upset... but it's not.

[QUOTE="sam280992"]Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.Tylendal

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

Well I know its coming out halfway through 2009 or so but it is reassuring that they at least showed us something, not much but it at least is something.

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="Vyyral"]

What good games do we have to look forward to from Nintendo?

This is the bleakest upcoming Nintendo first party lineup I've ever seen. As Nintendo realizes they make much more profit with much less effort creating less traditional experiences, they'll begin reallocating more and more resources to casual gaming.

Sure, Nintendo is still good for a great game every year, but these games will be released more and more sporadically. Nintendo is a business, and they don't care about hardcore gamers if casual gamers will make them much more money.

And both NMH and Zak and Wiki sold about 1/4 as much as Carnival games on the Wii, what does that tell you about the userbase? And don't you think developers will figure it out, too?

They have, and that's why we're getting Activision's "Wee First" lineup, Ubisoft's shovelware, and Wii Sports Resort! I think its personally reasonable for us Nintendo fans to feel betrayed.

Vyyral

Nintendo just came from their biggest released blowout ever, MP3, SMG, MK, Brawl, all release within months, Nintendo have released more Hardcore games in the first years of the Wii than they did for both, N64 and GC.

I agree with you, we have had some excellent games on the Wii thus far. I'm not angry about what's happened in the past, I'm worried about the future outlook.

I can't remember ever having no huge Nintendo first party game to salivate over. Right now, I have nothing. Animal Crossing isn't enough.

Nintendo said it themselves, a "paradigm shift" is occuring, away from us and towards the expanded audience. And I'm unhappy about this. The prospect of having fewer amazing Nintendo games released makes me a little sad.

Have you looked at the 3rd party offerings lately? Some of it's not bad.

Nintendo did have a pre-rendered trailer...Mario Kart Wii last year folks.

I thought you wouldn't be so quick to make false information.

Last year I was sadden by Wii Fit, but they showed off hardcore games at least (Zelda:PH and Mario Kart...announced SSBB delay...announced SMG release date). Nintendo is progressively getting worse.

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"][QUOTE="Tylendal"]

[QUOTE="sam280992"]Great post, I really do feel for the people who were so looking forward to a new Zelda or Mario, if that happened with God of War 3 I know I would've been gutted as hell.loco145

And when is GoW3 coming out? For all we know, Nintendo could have brought out the next Kid Icarus or Kirby, while Sony is still showing trailers. Just because Nintendo doesn't announce a game the instant they think of it doesn't mean that they're not working on them. Keep in mind that every game announced was to be released within a year.

I feel that the development process for too many devs has "Create awesome pre-rendered trailer" as the first step.

Nintendo have never released pre-rendered stuff. Perhaps some game concepts demos (real time rendered), but no pre-render stuff. That's the way they do stuff.

Have you looked at the 3rd party offerings lately? Some of it's not bad.

GundamGuy0

MadWorld, Conduit

Third party is doing a better job of giving us games than first party so far...

I'm really PO'ed at Nintendo for abandoning the DS. They have a Kirby SNES remake coming, and... and... and.... and.................

Come on!

[QUOTE="Vyyral"]I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

subrosian

Obviously everyone is going to love Wii Music.

E3 isn't over yet. How many times do I have to say this? Maybe Nintendo is going to show a couple of other things in the next couple of days. Let wait till E3 ends before we say things like that. And we still got a good 3rd party support anyway if it only AC and Wii Music.

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"]

Have you looked at the 3rd party offerings lately? Some of it's not bad.

BlazeDragon132

MadWorld, Conduit

Third party is doing a better job of giving us games than first party so far...

I never thought I'd see the day when Nintendo's 3rd party was better than its 1st party line-up...

Maybe Nintendo has more announcements to come. SSBB wasn't announced on day one either.

If E3 was over I could see a reason to be upset... but it's not.

GundamGuy0

So if we don't see a core title like Zelda (canon main game, not a party game version) given some general date like "Winter 2008" or such at this E3, will you be upset?

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Vyyral"]I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

Wanderer5

Obviously everyone is going to love Wii Music.

E3 isn't over yet. How many times do I have to say this? Maybe Nintendo is going to show a couple of other things in the next couple of days. Let wait till E3 ends before we say things like that. And we still got a good 3rd party support anyway if it only AC and Wii Music.

[QUOTE="Vyyral"]I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

subrosian

Obviously everyone is going to love Wii Music.

Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...m_machine024

E3 isn't over yet. How many times do I have to say this? Maybe Nintendo is going to show a couple of other things in the next couple of days. Let wait till E3 ends before we say things like that. And we still got a good 3rd party support anyway if it only AC and Wii Music.

Wanderer5

Yea, I really hope I'm jumping the gun here. But Reggie looked legitimately floored by the hardcore gamer post conference question, which leads me to think otherwise.

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"]

Maybe Nintendo has more announcements to come. SSBB wasn't announced on day one either.

If E3 was over I could see a reason to be upset... but it's not.

subrosian

So if we don't see a core title like Zelda (canon main game, not a party game version) given some general date like "Winter 2008" or such at this E3, will you be upset?

Zelda isn't comming out in 2008, just like GoW3. ANd Wasn't LBP supposed to be a 2007/early 2008 game? Why does Sony get points for finally giving a release date for a severly delayed title? The same with Killing Zone 3. SO, Nintendo delaying MK for October 2008 instead of releasing it a month after Brawl would have automatically made a better first party line-up? What about showing teaser and trailers of third party titles like MAdworld, Tales, king story and Dead Rising like MS and Sony did?

That would have changed the things even with the same games lineup? They just wanted to have the attention for Wii-motion plus and Animal Crossing with robust online features including voice chat.

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"]

Maybe Nintendo has more announcements to come. SSBB wasn't announced on day one either.

If E3 was over I could see a reason to be upset... but it's not.

subrosian

So if we don't see a core title like Zelda (canon main game, not a party game version) given some general date like "Winter 2008" or such at this E3, will you be upset?

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...Jandurin

This is my bottom line:

While it's true that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, we also don't have evidence of evidence. in other words, we don't have any meaningful confrimation of anything or dates. nothing to get excited about or be motivated with.

If I don't see something by Friday, the Wii is going on eBay. That's a promise. I didn't buy a console to be screwed around with. Tell me what's coming and tell me when it's coming so that I can make the best decisions with my investment.

If they don't, I'll make the decision for them.

Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...m_machine024

And should we be satisfied by that?

After all the hype he himself created, the big game is Animal Crossing? No offense to the game, but as far as Gamecube era games go, it wasn't the most hardcore. In fact, its the Gamecube game that best personifies Nintendo's new image. I really don't feel like this game was announced for the hardcore gamers at all.

I think Nintendo's thinking was, "Animal Crossing would be absolutely perfect for our new audience. Since it's from the GC era, it will look like we're tossing our old fans a bone too! Two birds with one stone!"

I'm sorry, but Animal Crossing really isn't enough for me.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Vyyral"]I've done a little research and found an unfulfilled promise from the Regginator. From a gametrailers interview, pre e3:

Geoff: Microsoft announced Gears of War 2, but for Wii... what do we have coming out later this year?

Reggie: See that's why you need to go to E3 this year.

Geoff: I have to wait til July??

Reggie: We're gonna unveil the whole second half during E3, I mean come on there's more than enough to get people excited.

Geoff: Is there a new Mario, new Zelda...? We gonna see any of that stuff this year?

Reggie: I'll tell you this, we're gonna have great new content maximizing all of our key franchises. It's gonna be a good second half. There's gonna be a big game for the holidays that the gamers will want.

Geoff: We know nothing about it, it's a total secret right now?

Reggie: All I can tell you is what we announce during E3 is going to be fantastic. The gamer's gonna be excited, and the expanded audience is going to be excited. We're gonna have a ton of great content. There's really-

m_machine024

Obviously everyone is going to love Wii Music.

This is my bottom line:

While it's true that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, we also don't have evidence of evidence. in other words, we don't have any meaningful confrimation of anything or dates. nothing to get excited about or be motivated with.

If I don't see something by Friday, the Wii is going on eBay. That's a promise. I didn't buy a console to be screwed around with. Tell me what's coming and tell me when it's coming so that I can make the best decisions with my investment.

If they don't, I'll make the decision for them.

Dreams-Visions

Screwed around? Cry me a river.

[QUOTE="Wanderer5"]

E3 isn't over yet. How many times do I have to say this? Maybe Nintendo is going to show a couple of other things in the next couple of days. Let wait till E3 ends before we say things like that. And we still got a good 3rd party support anyway if it only AC and Wii Music.

Vyyral

Yea, I really hope I'm jumping the gun here. But Reggie looked legitimately floored by the hardcore gamer post conference question, which leads me to think otherwise.

Well you never know. And even we don't get any big announcement in the next couple of days, we still got a good 3rd party support coming this holiday, and Animal Crossing look good.

People keep saying, "Just because of one conference, you're taking this stance on Nintendo?" They ignore the fact that these complaints have been coming up persistently for the last year or two. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Think about it. When was the last time Nintendo announced a real game for gamers for the Wii? Unless my memory fails me, I believe it was Super Smash Bros Brawl, more than 2 years ago. What have they given us since then? Mario Kart Wii, Mario Sluggers, Wario Land, and a bunch of casual stuff. They've stopped producing those titles, and now there's a gaping hole in the lineup.

That's why the cries of, "Wait till the end of the conference!" or "But E3 conferences are for casuals!" ring hollow. You can make that claim, but it only works if the company delivers something elsewhere. Nintendo has not been doing that, and they have shown that they don't feel any need to do that. The lack of announcements over the last two years speaks for itself.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscence, but there's plenty of evidence telling us what Nintendo's priorities are, and it's staring you all in the face at this conference. Since the Wii's launch, Nintendo has announced few, if any, new hardcore-focused titles. Those they have announced have hardly received any press. An intriguing new IP from them that was hardcore focused, Project Hammer, was scrapped entirely. They have not given press coverage to new hardcore IPs from other developers, like Suda's No More Heroes, or Capcom's Zak and Wiki. This isn't a new thing, this isn't just at this conference. It's a persistent and pernicious pattern.

It's disheartening to see that it's the relatively thin third-party lineup of small, eager developers that have to pick up Nintendo's slack, while they continue to ignore the 'geeks and otaku' that have eagerly supported them through the years.

Is e3 over yet ?:?
Gh0st_Of_0nyx

I wish I could share your optimism. When Reggie assures us that they'll have "great new content maximizing all of our key franchises" when discussing the second half of 2008 and then we have that failure of a press conference, I can't help but feel a little let down.

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...Gh0st_Of_0nyx

If there was a megaton announcement coming, why didn't he tell G4, "Oh, E3 isn't over yet,"? It's not like he had a problem teasing the press and the public before.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

This is my bottom line:

While it's true that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, we also don't have evidence of evidence. in other words, we don't have any meaningful confrimation of anything or dates. nothing to get excited about or be motivated with.

If I don't see something by Friday, the Wii is going on eBay. That's a promise. I didn't buy a console to be screwed around with. Tell me what's coming and tell me when it's coming so that I can make the best decisions with my investment.

If they don't, I'll make the decision for them.

loco145

Screwed around? Cry me a river.

*cry*

lol.

That Wii will be on eBay. No tears at all. Just reality. no 2008 games = make good money on eBay while it's still worth money. I have too many games to play and too many systems as it is.

[QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"][QUOTE="m_machine024"]Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...sonicmj1

If there was another bomb announcement coming, why didn't he tell G4, "Oh, E3 isn't over yet,"? It's not like he had a problem teasing the press and the public before.

Because, for some reason, Nintendo likes to keep secrets? We didn't knew about WL:tSD weeks ago and is releasing (in Japan) next week. While SOny and M$ like to hype games years before release. I was expecting to play Little Big Planet and Home by november of last year, and here i am... still waiting.

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...Jandurin

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]

Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...Vyyral

And should we be satisfied by that?