Good-Bye Nintendo (Part II) - Lying About Innovation

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

If there was another bomb announcement coming, why didn't he tell G4, "Oh, E3 isn't over yet,"? It's not like he had a problem teasing the press and the public before.

loco145

Because, for some reason, Nintendo likes to keep secrets? We didn't knew about WL:tSD weeks ago and is releasing (in Japan) next week.

Then why hype E3 for big announcements beforehand? He'd be spoiling the surprise, in that case.

Judging by his reaction to the question, the conference was supposed to please the hardcore. He could have easily acted as he had before if he knew of new secrets to be revealed. If he didn't have a problem saying, "Just wait," before, why would he have a problem saying it now, unless there was nothing to wait for?

People keep saying, "Just because of one conference, you're taking this stance on Nintendo?" They ignore the fact that these complaints have been coming up persistently for the last year or two. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Think about it. When was the last time Nintendo announced a real game for gamers for the Wii? Unless my memory fails me, I believe it was Super Smash Bros Brawl, more than 2 years ago. What have they given us since then? Mario Kart Wii, Mario Sluggers, Wario Land, and a bunch of casual stuff. They've stopped producing those titles, and now there's a gaping hole in the lineup.

That's why the cries of, "Wait till the end of the conference!" or "But E3 conferences are for casuals!" ring hollow. You can make that claim, but it only works if the company delivers something elsewhere. Nintendo has not been doing that, and they have shown that they don't feel any need to do that. The lack of announcements over the last two years speaks for itself.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscence, but there's plenty of evidence telling us what Nintendo's priorities are, and it's staring you all in the face at this conference. Since the Wii's launch, Nintendo has announced few, if any, new hardcore-focused titles. Those they have announced have hardly received any press. An intriguing new IP from them that was hardcore focused, Project Hammer, was scrapped entirely. They have not given press coverage to new hardcore IPs from other developers, like Suda's No More Heroes, or Capcom's Zak and Wiki. This isn't a new thing, this isn't just at this conference. It's a persistent and pernicious pattern.

It's disheartening to see that it's the relatively thin third-party lineup of small, eager developers that have to pick up Nintendo's slack, while they continue to ignore the 'geeks and otaku' that have eagerly supported them through the years.

sonicmj1

Well said. Most Wii defenders don't realize that all of the hardcore Wii games we have been blessed with were announced well before Nintendo's incredible success with the casuals.

Now that all the games that were announced before then have been released, it's becoming more and more obvious where Nintendo is headed.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="m_machine024"]Or maybe he's talking Animal Crossing...m_machine024

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

If there was another bomb announcement coming, why didn't he tell G4, "Oh, E3 isn't over yet,"? It's not like he had a problem teasing the press and the public before.

sonicmj1

Because, for some reason, Nintendo likes to keep secrets? We didn't knew about WL:tSD weeks ago and is releasing (in Japan) next week.

Then why hype E3 for big announcements beforehand? He'd be spoiling the surprise, in that case.

Judging by his reaction to the question, the conference was supposed to please the hardcore. He could have easily acted as he had before if he knew of new secrets to be revealed. If he didn't have a problem saying, "Just wait," before, why would he have a problem saying it now, unless there was nothing to wait for?

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday? Since showing a zoomed out/no-gameplay trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

I like what you said Sub, and I was very disappointed over Nintendo's press conference. But games will be announced at some point; Zelda is coming, a new Mario will arrive, and other games. How long we'll wait is up for debate and we'll see what happens.

Aside from the point, the reason I am angry with Nintendo right now is the whole Reggie incident on G4. He said "what's not to be happy about (to hardcore gamers)" or something like that. I would have understood it had they announced a great-looking, new IP or a new installment to an existing franchise. But Nintendo didn't, yet Reggie still questioned why hardcore gamers would be disappointed. They may know their new, casual audience, but Nintendo has lost the knowledge of what their loyal following wants if Reggie is any indication.

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday? Since showing a zoomed out/no-gameplay trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

loco145

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"][QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

If there was another bomb announcement coming, why didn't he tell G4, "Oh, E3 isn't over yet,"? It's not like he had a problem teasing the press and the public before.

loco145

Because, for some reason, Nintendo likes to keep secrets? We didn't knew about WL:tSD weeks ago and is releasing (in Japan) next week.

Then why hype E3 for big announcements beforehand? He'd be spoiling the surprise, in that case.

Judging by his reaction to the question, the conference was supposed to please the hardcore. He could have easily acted as he had before if he knew of new secrets to be revealed. If he didn't have a problem saying, "Just wait," before, why would he have a problem saying it now, unless there was nothing to wait for?

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday?Since showing a zoomed out trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

Dead Rising is a third party game. Most people are wondering where all the great upcoming first party games are.

And wouldn't you be happier with a quick zoomed out trailer of the next Zelda? I would. It's obviously no full blown gameplay presentation, but at least letting us know it's on the way and giving us a little tease would be nice. And I guarantee if a 10 second gameplay video of the next Zelda was shown, most of this commotion would have been avoided.

[QUOTE="loco145"]

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday? Since showing a zoomed out/no-gameplay trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

Jandurin

The only thing I was hoping for was a simple showing of madworld... would that be so hard for N to do??

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"][QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

If there was another bomb announcement coming, why didn't he tell G4, "Oh, E3 isn't over yet,"? It's not like he had a problem teasing the press and the public before.

Vyyral

Because, for some reason, Nintendo likes to keep secrets? We didn't knew about WL:tSD weeks ago and is releasing (in Japan) next week.

Then why hype E3 for big announcements beforehand? He'd be spoiling the surprise, in that case.

Judging by his reaction to the question, the conference was supposed to please the hardcore. He could have easily acted as he had before if he knew of new secrets to be revealed. If he didn't have a problem saying, "Just wait," before, why would he have a problem saying it now, unless there was nothing to wait for?

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday?Since showing a zoomed out trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

Dead Rising is a third party game. Most people are wondering where all the great upcoming first party games are.

And wouldn't you be happier with a quick zoomed out trailer of the next Zelda? I would. It's obviously no full blown gameplay presentation, but at least letting us know it's on the way and giving us a little tease would be nice. And I guarantee if a 10 second gameplay video of the next Zelda was shown, most of this commotion would have been avoided.

Dead Riisng is a third party games, yes, most of the games that SOny/MS showed and hyped on their show are third party games, and games that have been anounced for years also. Also, the new trailer for FFXIII is mostly a rehash of the trailer shown in 2006.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="loco145"]

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday? Since showing a zoomed out/no-gameplay trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

Oroin

The only thing I was hoping for was a simple showing of madworld... would that be so hard for N to do??

Why? Sega did a fine job at that MadWorld looks awesome.

[QUOTE="loco145"]

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday? Since showing a zoomed out/no-gameplay trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

Jandurin

So, you have played it?

Stop it sheep! The moment Nintendo smacked you in the face, you go and protect Nintendo and start hyping games that will come out earliest 2010. Nintendo doesn't care about the core gamers anymore. The TC is dead-on!

[QUOTE="Oroin"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="loco145"]

He got a call from his boss saying: Focus on Wii Motion Plus and Wii Speak perhaps? IDK. Why didn't they said "Dead Rising: Wii Edtion" so all the hardcore gamers would have their megaton even though its was revelaed yesterday? Since showing a zoomed out/no-gameplay trailer of a game still years away its all what hardcore gamers need to be hyped it seems.

loco145

The only thing I was hoping for was a simple showing of madworld... would that be so hard for N to do??

Why? Sega did a fine job at that MadWorld looks awesome.

So your happy with Nintendo's conference? I mean honestly it had to show at least one game that wasn't aimed for casuals.. That's all I meant... but honestly this game looks sweet.

how you choose Wii at this point is beyond me....seriously....that lineup is naked of quality.MikeE21286

For me it still has Madworld so I'm happy..:D that enough reason for ya??

Dead Riisng is a third party games, yes, most of the games that SOny/MS showed and hyped on their show are third party games, and games that have been anounced for years also.

loco145

Fair enough, but in the past Sony and Microsoft have been more reliant on third parties than Nintendo.

When I buy a Nintendo system, I buy it primarily for awesome Nintendo games. Yes, third party support on the Wii isn't terrible, but third parties picking up the slack for a bad upcoming Nintendo lineup is something I previously would have never thought possible.

Sony was known as the house that third parties built, not Nintendo. I want my Nintendo masterpieces.

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]how you choose Wii at this point is beyond me....seriously....that lineup is naked of quality.Oroin

For me it still has Madworld so I'm happy..:D that enough reason for ya??

[QUOTE="Oroin"]

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]how you choose Wii at this point is beyond me....seriously....that lineup is naked of quality.death919

For me it still has Madworld so I'm happy..:D that enough reason for ya??

oh. ok.. sorry. nevermind.. carry one.. I just like to hear myself talk..:D

how you choose Wii at this point is beyond me....seriously....that lineup is naked of quality.MikeE21286

Oh, I own a Ps3, Nice MGS4 player... also is nice for media.

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]how you choose Wii at this point is beyond me....seriously....that lineup is naked of quality.Oroin

For me it still has Madworld so I'm happy..:D that enough reason for ya??

Nintendo's biggest problem in the past has always been terrible third party. Now the most common defense to claims of a terrible upcoming lineup are third party games! Defending Nintendo like this just highlights the key problem - Nintendo's first pary is far too focused on the casual audience.

So your happy with Nintendo's conference? I mean honestly it had to show at least one game that wasn't aimed for casuals.. That's all I meant... but honestly this game looks sweet.

Oroin

They Showed Wii Sports 2 with enhancement motion controls, a voice chat solution and their game with the most robust online yet. I, like anyone, would like to play a New Zelda and the New Retro IP NOW!, but i don't see how rehashing a trailer 2 years old is any better. I also have my PC for Fallout 3 and the like. Wii have been great for me so far and the upcomming unique games like King's Story, Wii Sports 2 and Madworld are reaosn enough for me to keep it.

[QUOTE="Oroin"]

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]how you choose Wii at this point is beyond me....seriously....that lineup is naked of quality.Vyyral

For me it still has Madworld so I'm happy..:D that enough reason for ya??

Nintendo's biggest problem in the past has always been terrible third party. Now the most common defense to claims of a terrible upcoming lineup are third party games! Defending Nintendo like this just highlights the key problem - Nintendo's first pary is far too focused on the casual audience.

I'm not definding it.. that's the game I want for the wii. (not loyal to any brand name) but I agree with ya, but it seems it switch.. first third party sucked and they relied on first party.. now they rely on good third party because the first party is not so good. weird huh?:P

[QUOTE="Oroin"]

So your happy with Nintendo's conference? I mean honestly it had to show at least one game that wasn't aimed for casuals.. That's all I meant... but honestly this game looks sweet.

loco145

They Showed Wii Sports 2 with enhancement motion controls, a voice chat solution and their game with the most robust online yet. I, like anyone, would like to play a New Zelda and the New Retro IP NOW!, but i don't see how rehashing a trailer 2 years old is any better. I also have my PC for Fallout 3 and the like. Wii have been great for me so far and the upcomming unique games like King's Story, Wii Sports 2 and Madworld are reaosn enough for me to keep it.

sounds like I offended you a bit.. sorry about that.. I just meant I just meant a lot of people is complaining about the conference. maybe they would be happy if they showed a few trailers of madworld and other stuff I know they are in the making but didn't show.. that's all. sorry if I did.

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="Oroin"]

So your happy with Nintendo's conference? I mean honestly it had to show at least one game that wasn't aimed for casuals.. That's all I meant... but honestly this game looks sweet.

Oroin

They Showed Wii Sports 2 with enhancement motion controls, a voice chat solution and their game with the most robust online yet. I, like anyone, would like to play a New Zelda and the New Retro IP NOW!, but i don't see how rehashing a trailer 2 years old is any better. I also have my PC for Fallout 3 and the like. Wii have been great for me so far and the upcomming unique games like King's Story, Wii Sports 2 and Madworld are reaosn enough for me to keep it.

sounds like I offended you a bit.. sorry about that.. I just meant I just meant a lot of people is complaining about the conference. maybe they would be happy if they showed a few trailers of madworld and other stuff I know they are in the making but didn't show.. that's all. sorry if I did.

OMg, how did I sound offended? Tell me plz so i can improve my english.

Sheep dont care as usual, its like graphics, they said they didnt matter AT ALL. Then they say art style does, and now, the only reason they hype Conduit is because of its trash graphics

Seriously, the PS2 last gen was a both hardcore and casual console, we got million sellers on that every week. Unfortunately, thats all changed, had it not existed, both MS and Sony would have a lot more gamers to their brands who would buy stuff like Eternal Sonata and Folklore

Sheep dont care as usual, its like graphics, they said they didnt matter AT ALL. Then they say art style does, and now, the only reason they hype Conduit is because of its trash graphics

Seriously, the PS2 last gen was a both hardcore and casual console, we got million sellers on that every week. Unfortunately, thats all changed, had it not existed, both MS and Sony would have a lot more gamers to their brands who would buy stuff like Eternal Sonata and Folklore

ReturnOfShinobi

Don't lie.

Sheep dont care as usual, its like graphics, they said they didnt matter AT ALL. Then they say art style does, and now, the only reason they hype Conduit is because of its trash graphics

Seriously, the PS2 last gen was a both hardcore and casual console, we got million sellers on that every week. Unfortunately, thats all changed, had it not existed, both MS and Sony would have a lot more gamers to their brands who would buy stuff like Eternal Sonata and Folklore

ReturnOfShinobi

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"]

Sheep dont care as usual, its like graphics, they said they didnt matter AT ALL. Then they say art style does, and now, the only reason they hype Conduit is because of its trash graphics

Seriously, the PS2 last gen was a both hardcore and casual console, we got million sellers on that every week. Unfortunately, thats all changed, had it not existed, both MS and Sony would have a lot more gamers to their brands who would buy stuff like Eternal Sonata and Folklore

Willy105

Don't lie.

Sorry but ill take my RPGs over Wii Spors any day. Gaming industry is selling software so poorly now, i went out and bought Encharted Arms simply because i was so RPG starved

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"]

Sheep dont care as usual, its like graphics, they said they didnt matter AT ALL. Then they say art style does, and now, the only reason they hype Conduit is because of its trash graphics

Seriously, the PS2 last gen was a both hardcore and casual console, we got million sellers on that every week. Unfortunately, thats all changed, had it not existed, both MS and Sony would have a lot more gamers to their brands who would buy stuff like Eternal Sonata and Folklore

Darthmatt

While MS and Sony break their backs trying to win the masses, Nintendo churns out trash and call it a day

How about the complaints from the hardcore about not having voice chat and 1:1 controls? Oh wait they actully adressed those complaints.books83

Oh wait, i had it on my XBOX back in 2002:|

[QUOTE="books83"]How about the complaints from the hardcore about not having voice chat and 1:1 controls? Oh wait they actully adressed those complaints.ReturnOfShinobi

Oh wait, i had it on my XBOX back in 2002:|

But this one is for the whole room ;). And didn't people had voice chat since 1879?

It's great to see people finally adding 1 + 1 about Nintendo and their future.


Well except for Willy105 of course.

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"]

[QUOTE="books83"]How about the complaints from the hardcore about not having voice chat and 1:1 controls? Oh wait they actully adressed those complaints.loco145

Oh wait, i had it on my XBOX back in 2002:|

But this one is for the whole room ;)

It's great to see people finally adding 1 + 1 about Nintendo and their future.


Well except for Willy105 of course.

DireToad

[QUOTE="DireToad"]

It's great to see people finally adding 1 + 1 about Nintendo and their future.


Well except for Willy105 of course.

ReturnOfShinobi

Oh yeah I remember that, it seemed a bit odd.

But I've done that before, it was called Good-Bye Nintendo, and its' where I personally gave up on them.subrosian

if you already gave up on them then why are you doing it again? nintendo wasn't the only one with a bad conference, all of them pretty much sucked. few big games were announced from anyone, and they'll probably hold their own conferences later on. and miyamoto said there's a new zelda game in the works. even if they don't announce it, it's pretty obvious that they're working on one. will you need confirmation that epic is working on gears 3 after gears 2 comes out or will you realize that?

Wow, I can't believe some of the epic meltdowns in this thread. :lol:

Hilarious. I can say at least one thing about Nintendo's conference. It is the after effects that have been the most entertaining. :lol:

How about the complaints from the hardcore about not having voice chat and 1:1 controls? Oh wait they actully adressed those complaints.books83

Well, obviously a conference aimed at investers and retailers is no good unless they have pre-rendered fan-service for games that we've known about for a year. :roll:

[QUOTE="subrosian"]But I've done that before, it was called Good-Bye Nintendo, and its' where I personally gave up on them.shoeman12

if you already gave up on them then why are you doing it again? nintendo wasn't the only one with a bad conference, all of them pretty much sucked. few big games were announced from anyone, and they'll probably hold their own conferences later on. and miyamoto said there's a new zelda game in the works. even if they don't announce it, it's pretty obvious that they're working on one. will you need confirmation that epic is working on gears 3 after gears 2 comes out or will you realize that?

The difference is the 360 has tons of games to look forward to. The Wii has some nice third party stuff, but where is the first party lineup?

It's a no brainer that a new Zelda is coming, but if they haven't even shown a trailer yet then how many years away is it? And what Nintendo games will I be playing in between now and then? That's the questions Nintendo had to answer.

The answer? Wii Sports Resort, Wii Music, and Animal Crossing. That's a letdown to me, and many others.

I feel like I have to put my two cents in about this whole press conference and I apologize if I missed some points in your thread, but I am very sleepy at the moment so please bear with me.

It's no secret that Nintendo's press conference was a huge disappointment. To me, a press conference at E3 is a chance to convince the world why you're still the best platform to pick from and Nintendo blew it big time. Their direction seemed to be "everyone loves us, so you should too." So much time was wasted on them talking about how much money they made, how they've managed to get girls to pick up their products, they're accomplishments and blah dee blah dee blah. Very little was said that people outside of Nintendo would even care about.

And what little games they DID display grew very little interest from most people. The game that caused me to raise my eyebrow the most in interest was the new GTA game for the DS. And I'm not entirely against the new Wii Speak and Wii Sports game either, but their was not enough information provided (for me anyway) to make a decision on if these games should be cared about or not. And the Wii Music "grand finale" was terrible. Nuff said.

Now that all being said, I do think too many people are calling it quits on Nintendo way too soon. If E3 was about press conferences, then Nintendo lost. If E3 was about displaying your biggest and best hand that you possibly could, Nintendo lost. E3 is a chance to show the outside public new footage and information about games being developed and so far (with plenty of E3 time left) we've heard some nice information of games coming to the Wii and DS. Why Nintendo chose not to show off these games at their conference I have no idea (my only guess is they didn't want to show off a strong hand for....some reason). But I have full confidence that Nintendo still has a selection of good games to choose from. They may not be in the near future (or maybe they are, but again Nintendo, this is what press conferences are for), but the announced games are more then enough for me to be satisfied with my Wii purchase. A failed press conference does not equal a failed company. And because they didn't address someone's "hardcore" needs does not mean they've abandoned them.

Feel free to agree or disagree all you'd like, but again, I felt like putting in my two cents.

[QUOTE="books83"]How about the complaints from the hardcore about not having voice chat and 1:1 controls? Oh wait they actully adressed those complaints.Tylendal

Well, obviously a conference aimed at investers and retailers is no good unless they have pre-rendered fan-service for games that we've known about for a year. :roll:

http://gonintendo.com/?p=37938

In a pre-e3 interview, Reggie promised a great lineup of games for the hardcore gamer to be revealed at e3, which will give Nintendo a strong 2008 second half. So excuse me if I had the wrong idea.

[QUOTE="books83"]How about the complaints from the hardcore about not having voice chat and 1:1 controls? Oh wait they actully adressed those complaints.Tylendal

Well, obviously a conference aimed at investers and retailers is no good unless they have pre-rendered fan-service for games that we've known about for a year. :roll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E3

"The E3 Media and Business Summit, formerly known as Electronic Entertainment Expo and commonly known as E3, is an annual trade show for the computer and video games industry presented by the Entertainment Software Association (ESA). It is used by many video game developers to show off their upcoming games and game-related hardware."

E3 is a trade show to show off upcoming games. Where does it say its for investers or retailers? All Nintendo did was show a couple new peripherials, gameplay video of a new game, some casual games, and a logo for the GTA game for DS.

Now that all being said, I do think too many people are calling it quits on Nintendo way too soon. If E3 was about press conferences, then Nintendo lost. If E3 was about displaying your biggest and best hand that you possibly could, Nintendo lost. E3 is a chance to show the outside public new footage and information about games being developed and so far (with plenty of E3 time left) we've heard some nice information of games coming to the Wii and DS. Why Nintendo chose not to show off these games at their conference I have no idea (my only guess is they didn't want to show off a strong hand for....some reason). But I have full confidence that Nintendo still has a selection of good games to choose from. They may not be in the near future (or maybe they are, but again Nintendo, this is what press conferences are for), but the announced games are more then enough for me to be satisfied with my Wii purchase. A failed press conference does not equal a failed company. And because they didn't address someone's "hardcore" needs does not mean they've abandoned them.

Feel free to agree or disagree all you'd like, but again, I felt like putting in my two cents.

vdastampede

I agree with you with this part.. I don't know why they didn't show some of the games they have in the making like madworld instead have sega show it.. but anyway I agree people are thinking what nintendo showed at the conference was all they had like Nintendo is incapable of making anything else.. they had to show everything and leaving nothing else a secret. check nintendo history.. they always leave something out or have something vaguely mentioned.. (not a sheep, just this topic is carrying off way to long) good day.