Is there any purpose for dual analog anymore?

My room mate has a 360, and while I admit it has been about a year since I played with a standard game pad, I tried playing CoD:WoW and Fallout 3 on his 360 today. And I gotta say, the controls suck. I play Fallout 3 on the PC and going from mouse to analog is night and day. It's going from one of the most intuitive control systems to the least. I have CoD:WoW on the wii, and while it has less content, I don't care because I can aim and don't need some type of assist system. Most people know that dual analog is the worst system for first person games, but I'm pretty confident that the only reason we put up with it is because on consoles at least there was nothing better. We just got used to it. I remember playing halo when it first came out and having trouble at it. I kept playing and got over the learning curve and got better. But now that I have gone back to dual analog after such a long hiatus, it's apparent to me that the control scheme just sucks. A good controls scheme (mouse or wiimote) is one that just comes natural, not one you have to practice at to make up for its flaws.

What genres ARE dual analog good for? Not shooters, you only need one stick for racers and sports, JRPGs don't need one at all really, WRPGs are better with a pointer, RTSs are better with a pointer...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control.

I enjoy having the 4 face buttons and 4 shoulder buttons easily available, but if Sony and MS plan to improve their games next gen, they need an IR pointer or something similar.

I am fine with dual analog set up. jakarai

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Dual analog came natural enough to me, but I understand that it may be difficult for some as I have a friend who can't use analog all that well.

I like analog. Maybe it is because I grew up with it, but that doesn't mean I should dislike it. There's no need to dislike it. It work and it is fun to use. I can sit underneath the blankets during the winter on my couch and play my games without having to move my arms around or worry about having a hard surface to move a mouse on.

Its convenient and it works absolutely fine.

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. goblaa

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Care to explain on the "inferior"??

I wouldn't be able to play anything other than FPS and RTS on a computer. Can you imagine trying to platform or hack n slash with a mouse/keyboard?:(-Sniper99-

Except you don't need DUAL analog for that either. You just need a game pad and ONE analog stick.

For any games, who wants to have to warry about sitting at a desk when you can kick back on your couch and play games. Plus it would take up more room and be harder to play multipler on one screen. And the controller feels much more naturals in the hands than the keyboard and mouse.Innocentguy757

Still don't know how people sit back and relax while playing games. If I'm playing Madden, Halo, Gears whatever I am on the edge of my seat leaning forward I'm not relaxing.

Although I like controllers I wouldn't say they feel more natural in the hands seeing as how much I use a computer each day.

I wouldn't be able to play anything other than FPS and RTS on a computer. Can you imagine trying to platform or hack n slash with a mouse/keyboard?:(-Sniper99-

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. jasonheyman

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Care to explain on the "inferior"??

Well it is a factually inferior tool in FPS.

• Speed
• Accuracy
• Precision

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. jasonheyman

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Care to explain on the "inferior"??

in-fe-ri-or: Adj:

in-fe-ri-or: Adj: 1. lower in station, rank, degree, or grade (often fol. by to): a rank inferior to colonel. 2. lower in place or position; closer to the bottom or base: descending into the inferior regions of the earth. 3. of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard: an inferior product. 4. less important, valuable, or worthy: B+ bonds are inferior to AAA bonds. 5. acting or performing in a way that is comparatively poor or mediocre: an inferior observer of human nature.

goblaa

I know what the word means I meant explain why you feel that way. When they first came out yes it took getting used to. But now that it's been there for so long I don't see myself being able to play without a second one..

[QUOTE="goblaa"]in-fe-ri-or: Adj: 1. lower in station, rank, degree, or grade (often fol. by to): a rank inferior to colonel. 2. lower in place or position; closer to the bottom or base: descending into the inferior regions of the earth. 3. of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard: an inferior product. 4. less important, valuable, or worthy: B+ bonds are inferior to AAA bonds. 5. acting or performing in a way that is comparatively poor or mediocre: an inferior observer of human nature.

jasonheyman

I know what the word means I meant explain why you feel that way. When they first came out yes it took getting used to. But now that it's been there for so long I don't see myself being able to play without a second one..

The fact that you have to grow acustom to it makes it inferior. A mouse and the wiimote's pointer come 100% natural. And to boot, they are faster and more precise.

Grab someone with no gaming experience and have them play CoD on the 360, PC, and Wii. They will pick up the PC and Wii instantly. That makes dual analog inferior.

[QUOTE="Innocentguy757"]For any games, who wants to have to warry about sitting at a desk when you can kick back on your couch and play games. Plus it would take up more room and be harder to play multipler on one screen. And the controller feels much more naturals in the hands than the keyboard and mouse.Blackbond

Still don't know how people sit back and relax while playing games. If I'm playing Madden, Halo, Gears whatever I am on the edge of my seat leaning forward I'm not relaxing.

Although I like controllers I wouldn't say they feel more natural in the hands seeing as how much I use a computer each day.

Well it is a factually inferior tool in FPS.

• Speed
• Accuracy
• Precision

The mouse and keyboard is factually superior in these catagories in regards to fps.

Blackbond

Just out of curiosity but what measures do you say that? Reaction time quicker with hand then finger?

Face it boys and girls after the sucsess the wii has had kiss your analog controllers goodbye. I like the analog too but you can better your last dollar sony and microsoft have thier own motion cotrollers lined up for the next systems.jdc6305

I really hope you are wrong because I would cry lol

[QUOTE="Innocentguy757"]For any games, who wants to have to warry about sitting at a desk when you can kick back on your couch and play games. Plus it would take up more room and be harder to play multipler on one screen. And the controller feels much more naturals in the hands than the keyboard and mouse.Blackbond

Still don't know how people sit back and relax while playing games. If I'm playing Madden, Halo, Gears whatever I am on the edge of my seat leaning forward I'm not relaxing.

Although I like controllers I wouldn't say they feel more natural in the hands seeing as how much I use a computer each day.

You're right, sitting and relaxing while playing games is not due.

It's better to just stand there and shake your hands.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Well it is a factually inferior tool in FPS.

• Speed
• Accuracy
• Precision

The mouse and keyboard is factually superior in these catagories in regards to fps.

jasonheyman

Just out of curiosity but what measures do say that? Reaction time quicker with hand then finger?

I shouldn't even need to explain this.

The degree of precision and accuracy one has with a mouse is technically superior to that of one on an analog stick.

As for speed. Lets be serious. WIth the mouse you move to the desired location as with the analog stick you move it until that desired location is reached. Turning around in a FPS with a gamepad compared to a controller should all you need to know about this situation.

If analogs had better precision then a mouse there would also be know need for aim assist or sticky aim.

There are tons of games I play with controllers and enjoy with controllers. But there is no input to rule them all. Hence why we have arcade sticks, dance pads, guitars, drums, ect.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Well it is a factually inferior tool in FPS.

• Speed
• Accuracy
• Precision

The mouse and keyboard is factually superior in these catagories in regards to fps.

jasonheyman

Just out of curiosity but what measures do say that? Reaction time quicker with hand then finger?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="Innocentguy757"]For any games, who wants to have to warry about sitting at a desk when you can kick back on your couch and play games. Plus it would take up more room and be harder to play multipler on one screen. And the controller feels much more naturals in the hands than the keyboard and mouse.GreenGoblin2099

Still don't know how people sit back and relax while playing games. If I'm playing Madden, Halo, Gears whatever I am on the edge of my seat leaning forward I'm not relaxing.

Although I like controllers I wouldn't say they feel more natural in the hands seeing as how much I use a computer each day.

You're right, sitting and relaxing while playing games is not due.

It's better to just stand there and shake your hands.

Yes because your hands have to do on how you sit right my man? Because me sitting back on a couch or leaning on the edge of my seat has an effect on my hands shaking right? Heh, really.

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]Well it is a factually inferior tool in FPS.

• Speed
• Accuracy
• Precision

The mouse and keyboard is factually superior in these catagories in regards to fps.

Couth_

Just out of curiosity but what measures do say that? Reaction time quicker with hand then finger?

How is saying that moving a mouse grants you more speed, accuracy, and precion in comparison to moving an analog stick propaganda? The mouse having more speed, accuracy, and precision is a fact.

ANd how is it more work? You use a mouse every day in your life whether you surf the net, do school work whatever? Please tell me you don't find doing those every day things work because really using a controller isn't work either. Infact if using any controller input is work and you're not playing DDR, RockBand, Beatmania or something then I don't know what to say.

How is saying that moving a mouse grants you more speed, accuracy, and precion in comparison to moving an analog stick propaganda? The mouse having more speed, accuracy, and precision is a fact.

Blackbond

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"][QUOTE="goblaa"]in-fe-ri-or: Adj: 1. lower in station, rank, degree, or grade (often fol. by to): a rank inferior to colonel. 2. lower in place or position; closer to the bottom or base: descending into the inferior regions of the earth. 3. of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard: an inferior product. 4. less important, valuable, or worthy: B+ bonds are inferior to AAA bonds. 5. acting or performing in a way that is comparatively poor or mediocre: an inferior observer of human nature.

goblaa

I know what the word means I meant explain why you feel that way. When they first came out yes it took getting used to. But now that it's been there for so long I don't see myself being able to play without a second one..

The fact that you have to grow acustom to it makes it inferior. A mouse and the wiimote's pointer come 100% natural. And to boot, they are faster and more precise.

Grab someone with no gaming experience and have them play CoD on the 360, PC, and Wii. They will pick up the PC and Wii instantly. That makes dual analog inferior.

Hell no!!! The mouse/kb is great for...PC! Not for console...and the wiimote is the most gimmicky controller ever. I hate using it for anything other then wii sports. dual shock 2 is the bets controller imo and has worked perfectly for years! I don;t want a dumbed down remote...real gamers like game pads, or kb/m on pc. Why do sheep want to push there crap on to us? I don't like pointing at the screen and having to hold a damn nunchuck controller....its stupid unless its a wii sports game, not for hardcore console games.world69star69

Real gamers like gamepads or keyboard and mouse. Guess those guys that be using arcade sticks for fighters, or play RockBand, DDR, or Beatmania whatever aren't real gamers per say. Real gamers are real people that play games. That's really the only definition of a real gamer. I mean what are people false gamers? pseudo gamers? fake gamers?

[QUOTE="goblaa"][QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

I know what the word means I meant explain why you feel that way. When they first came out yes it took getting used to. But now that it's been there for so long I don't see myself being able to play without a second one..

Captain__Tripps

The fact that you have to grow acustom to it makes it inferior. A mouse and the wiimote's pointer come 100% natural. And to boot, they are faster and more precise.

Grab someone with no gaming experience and have them play CoD on the 360, PC, and Wii. They will pick up the PC and Wii instantly. That makes dual analog inferior.

Exactly. They will find the PC better.

because something is easier for someone to use makes it superior? hmm, i drive stick and it is "factually" superior to automatic (ability to down shift without needing to conventionally brake and the ability to start off in 2nd gear give it a great edge also), but automatic is easier for new drivers. so i don't see how easier is superior.sincgar1

[QUOTE="world69star69"]Hell no!!! The mouse/kb is great for...PC! Not for console...and the wiimote is the most gimmicky controller ever. I hate using it for anything other then wii sports. dual shock 2 is the bets controller imo and has worked perfectly for years! I don;t want a dumbed down remote...real gamers like game pads, or kb/m on pc. Why do sheep want to push there crap on to us? I don't like pointing at the screen and having to hold a damn nunchuck controller....its stupid unless its a wii sports game, not for hardcore console games.Blackbond

Real gamers like gamepads or keyboard and mouse. Guess those guys that be using arcade sticks for fighters, or play RockBand, DDR, or Beatmania whatever aren't real gamers per say. Real gamers are real people that play games. That's really the only definition of a real gamer. I mean what are people false gamers? pseudo gamers? fake gamers?

don't even bother replying. His entire argument was "It's stupid, it's stupid, it's stupid! :cry:"

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One gets a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

How is saying that moving a mouse grants you more speed, accuracy, and precion in comparison to moving an analog stick propaganda? The mouse having more speed, accuracy, and precision is a fact.

Couth_

[QUOTE="world69star69"]Hell no!!! The mouse/kb is great for...PC! Not for console...and the wiimote is the most gimmicky controller ever. I hate using it for anything other then wii sports. dual shock 2 is the bets controller imo and has worked perfectly for years! I don;t want a dumbed down remote...real gamers like game pads, or kb/m on pc. Why do sheep want to push there crap on to us? I don't like pointing at the screen and having to hold a damn nunchuck controller....its stupid unless its a wii sports game, not for hardcore console games.Blackbond

Real gamers like gamepads or keyboard and mouse. Guess those guys that be using arcade sticks for fighters, or play RockBand, DDR, or Beatmania whatever aren't real gamers per say. Real gamers are real people that play games. That's really the only definition of a real gamer. I mean what are people false gamers? pseudo gamers? fake gamers?

[QUOTE="sincgar1"]because something is easier for someone to use makes it superior? hmm, i drive stick and it is "factually" superior to automatic (ability to down shift without needing to conventionally brake and the ability to start off in 2nd gear give it a great edge also), but automatic is easier for new drivers. so i don't see how easier is superior.world69star69

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One get a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

jasonheyman

That depends on their personal skill levels and amount of practice. But if you were to take two people who have never touched a video game, and have them deathmatch in a FPS (one on mouse the other on DA) the mouse player would have an advantage since there wouldn't be a learning curve. Same goes for wiimote sinceyou have an IR pointer.

[QUOTE="Couth_"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

How is saying that moving a mouse grants you more speed, accuracy, and precion in comparison to moving an analog stick propaganda? The mouse having more speed, accuracy, and precision is a fact.

Blackbond

[QUOTE="world69star69"][QUOTE="sincgar1"]because something is easier for someone to use makes it superior? hmm, i drive stick and it is "factually" superior to automatic (ability to down shift without needing to conventionally brake and the ability to start off in 2nd gear give it a great edge also), but automatic is easier for new drivers. so i don't see how easier is superior.Blackbond

both. Anything with a pointer is going to be better.

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One get a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

jasonheyman

If you put two equal level players of the same skill against each other its going to come down to the tool being used at hand. The person using the fuctionably superior tool will win. There is a reason that nobody in their right mind would ever use a controller in any FPS competition on PC.

The guy using the M/KB will have the greater advantage over the controller because he is using an input device that has superior speed, accuarcy, and precision.

[QUOTE="Couth_"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

How is saying that moving a mouse grants you more speed, accuracy, and precion in comparison to moving an analog stick propaganda? The mouse having more speed, accuracy, and precision is a fact.

Blackbond

both. Anything with a pointer is going to be better.

goblaa

How's that going to help every other genre that's not a FPS??? how is a pointer going to help play let's say SFIV??? or LBP?? how??

You're basing this entire thread on the "superiority" of the Wiimote/M/KB on a single gaming genre and that's a fail.

SEE?? SEE WHY CASUALS MADE THINGS WORSE FOR GAMERS???

:lol:

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="Couth_"]Because in the end, hermits arn't going to convince anyone that KB/M is better. It may be more precise, that might matter if I was competing. But since I am playing for fun, dual analog is more enjoyable ie betterCouth_

And then you realized that one could use a controller or a trackball on the PC as my friend uses a trackball to play CS. The point is not mute. If you're not debating the facts then I don't know what you're debating. As I've said I'm not interested in hearing opinions.