To those who say bluray isn't necessary

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="clone01"] he probably doesn't, but he's just saying that blu-ray isn't necessary this gen, which it isn't.SpruceCaboose

The word "IS NOT" is a strong word, Metal Gear 4 needed blu-ray, 1 game or 10 games, the point is 1 game did need blu-ray so you can't say blu-ray "is not" needed because Metal Gear 4 proved that wrong.

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] MGS4 did not, I will repeat, DID NOT, need Blu-Ray. Again, its only storage, and the storage media is unnecessary.ogvampire

Now, I'm only making this argument for the one game. Each game's needs can vary, and in general space is not the biggest issue.

since the cutscenes use the in-game engine, it doesnt take that much space. it is well known that they fill up the blu-ray with uncompressed audio, instead of compressed, which is the difference.

uncompressed audio is only good for 5.1 - 7.1 surround sound systems.... thats not needed for gaming

If you dont have to compress data why would you want to when you know it sounds better uncompressed

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Keep-the-Faith"]

bluray was used to make Sony beat HD DVD..........not for games.

its been 3 years and you guys still dont get it do u?????

Keep-the-Faith

you mean all those times that sony-exclusive devs claimed that they couldnt make a certain game without blu-ray were just lying?

no surprise...

multiple disks and compression say hello.

nothing wrong with disk swapping, id take it over mandatory installs anyday.

multiple disks? thats not really a reason... there are only like 2 games this gen that have multiple disks

main thing they use to fill-up disc: uncompressed audio

its not like they couldnt have made the same game without blu-ray...

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

You do know CD's were $30 when thet first came out too, just like Blu-Ray. You can get DVD for $5, it should out sell Ble-Ray 15-1!!!

CubanBlunt

What dose your statement have to do with my conversation?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But different storage media have different qualities about them that can qualify or disqualify them as useful for a game. In the case of MGS4, they needed close to 50GB of storage for all the media clips and scenes (video or realtime--can anyone prove one way or the other by using an arbitray camera adjust or the like?). That's too large for DVD (since you'd need 5 discs or more--no game's gone that big), and by Kojima's standards, audio compression beyond lossless (which only yields about a 2:1 ratio) is not an option. And since some PS3's have smaller hard drives than can accommodate the whole game, that leaves only one option in terms of the PS3.

Now, I'm only making this argument for the one game. Each game's needs can vary, and in general space is not the biggest issue.

CubanBlunt

since the cutscenes use the in-game engine, it doesnt take that much space. it is well known that they fill up the blu-ray with uncompressed audio, instead of compressed, which is the difference.

uncompressed audio is only good for 5.1 - 7.1 surround sound systems.... thats not needed for gaming

If you dont have to compress data why would you want to when you know it sounds better uncompressed

we are talking about necessity here... not luxury

blu-ray is not needed for gaming

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

I'm not gonna front, I dont know ANY developers personaly....do you?

CubanBlunt

The word "IS NOT" is a strong word, Metal Gear 4 needed blu-ray, 1 game or 10 games, the point is 1 game did need blu-ray so you can't say blu-ray "is not" needed because Metal Gear 4 proved that wrong.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

The word "IS NOT" is a strong word, Metal Gear 4 needed blu-ray, 1 game or 10 games, the point is 1 game did need blu-ray so you can't say blu-ray "is not" needed because Metal Gear 4 proved that wrong.

CubanBlunt

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] MGS4 did not, I will repeat, DID NOT, need Blu-Ray. Again, its only storage, and the storage media is unnecessary.SpruceCaboose

Now, I'm only making this argument for the one game. Each game's needs can vary, and in general space is not the biggest issue.

DVD--Too many discs. Pressing costs would've risen too high. Not to mention the spanning concerns and packaging problems (PS3 cases are smaller than standard, and cramming more than two discs into a standard DVD case is tricky.

HDD--Some PS3's only have 40GB hard drives. Not enough room.

Flash drive--I don't recall there being a flash drive bigger than 32GB available on the market. Also, there's the transfer rate concerns (flash can be slower than optical).

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] MGS4 did not, I will repeat, DID NOT, need Blu-Ray. Again, its only storage, and the storage media is unnecessary.clone01

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

HuusAsking

the devs didnt have to put uncompressed audio... compressed audio is more than sufficient. you can only tell the difference if you have the proper 5.1-7.1 surround sound system

filling up the blu-ray disc with uncompressed audio is a luxury... but far from a necessity

Are Wii and 360 discs scratch proof? Do they perform the highest quality video and audio? And can they hold massive data 25gb, 50gb, 100gb, 150gb, 250gb?

As a PS3 owner I know my discs wont ever scratch. I know the devs aren't limited by space. And I know it will always perform at the highest quality for games and videos. And the PS3 games are the same price as a 360 game, but the PS3 game is on a much better disc.

I paid $100 more for my PS3 than for my 360, but I get so much more for it and I don't pay to play online.

It is necessary for preventing scratches, for having quality audio/video, and for allowing devs to make a game as big as they want to.

patriots7672

in this gen the blu-ray gives you a sight advantage. Later down the road the DVD's 4 GB (is it 4?) isn't going to cut it. But for now games like fable 2, call of duty, and halo run just fine on a DVD.

ALso, I dont remeber playing mgs1 and thinking "GOD DAMN I HAVE TO CHANGE DISCS????? MY PS2 IS LIke 3 FEET AWAY OMG!@#!@" it was more like. "DAmn this game is so fun! i love this game"

The game makes the game, not the format

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="clone01"] you do a one time install to a hard drive from those multiple discs. again, blu-ray is not needed for gaming. it is merely a storage medium.ogvampire

the devs didnt have to put uncompressed audio... compressed audio is more than sufficient. you can only tell the difference if you have the proper 5.1-7.1 surround sound system

filling up the blu-ray disc with uncompressed audio is a luxury... but far from a necessity

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]And if you don't have a big enough hard drive? Not everyone knows how to change out the PS3's hard drive or can afford such.HuusAsking

the devs didnt have to put uncompressed audio... compressed audio is more than sufficient. you can only tell the difference if you have the proper 5.1-7.1 surround sound system

filling up the blu-ray disc with uncompressed audio is a luxury... but far from a necessity

perhaps the definition of 'necessity' may help...

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

From Kojima's artistic perspective, nothing else would do. It was his decision. He made it "Deal or No Deal".ogvampire

perhaps the definition of 'necessity' may help...

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Keep-the-Faith"]

bluray was used to make Sony beat HD DVD..........not for games.

its been 3 years and you guys still dont get it do u?????

Keep-the-Faith

you mean all those times that sony-exclusive devs claimed that they couldnt make a certain game without blu-ray were just lying?

no surprise...

multiple disks and compression say hello.

nothing wrong with disk swapping, id take it over mandatory installs anyday.

I would rather take 1 disk over 4 any day. If you dont have to compress data why would you want to????

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]From Kojima's artistic perspective, nothing else would do. It was his decision. He made it "Deal or No Deal".HuusAsking

perhaps the definition of 'necessity' may help...

jeez

your logic: its a necessity to have the Eyetoy to play Eye of Judgement ...therefore the Eyetoy is a necessity for gaming :roll:

anyway, uncompressed audio is a luxury, not necessity. deal with it

can everyone really stop wit the "not needed 2 play games" and "luxury" comments about bluray? wireless controllers that turn on n off ur system arent needed but i dnt hear ppl cryin that that was forced on em. the tears about bluray being a luxury? if u got a $200+ system wit games in ur house thats luxury in itself. also, i would want my game on 1 disc, even if im careful, it still betters my odds of maintaining the condition of my purchase. n how last gen is multi-disc games? leave the old school 4 nostalgia n in wit the new

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

since the cutscenes use the in-game engine, it doesnt take that much space. it is well known that they fill up the blu-ray with uncompressed audio, instead of compressed, which is the difference.

uncompressed audio is only good for 5.1 - 7.1 surround sound systems.... thats not needed for gaming

ogvampire

If you dont have to compress data why would you want to when you know it sounds better uncompressed

we are talking about necessity here... not luxury

blu-ray is not needed for gaming

Luxury? its called Evolution, clearly Sony is trying. Why cant games evlove?

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

perhaps the definition of 'necessity' may help...

ogvampire

jeez

your logic: its a necessity to have the Eyetoy to play Eye of Judgement ...therefore the Eyetoy is a necessity for gaming :roll:

anyway, uncompressed audio is a luxury, not necessity. deal with it

IOW, one man's frivolity is another man's necessity.

[QUOTE="Keep-the-Faith"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

you mean all those times that sony-exclusive devs claimed that they couldnt make a certain game without blu-ray were just lying?

no surprise...

CubanBlunt

multiple disks and compression say hello.

nothing wrong with disk swapping, id take it over mandatory installs anyday.

I would rather take 1 disk over 4 any day. If you dont have to compress data why would you want to????

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

If you dont have to compress data why would you want to when you know it sounds better uncompressed

CubanBlunt

we are talking about necessity here... not luxury

blu-ray is not needed for gaming

Luxury? its called Evolution, clearly Sony is trying. Why cant games evlove?

its a storage medium... it doesnt have anything to do with games :|

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

we are talking about necessity here... not luxury

blu-ray is not needed for gaming

ogvampire

Luxury? its called Evolution, clearly Sony is trying. Why cant games evlove?

its a storage medium... it doesnt have anything to do with games :|

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] MGS4 did not, I will repeat, DID NOT, need Blu-Ray. Again, its only storage, and the storage media is unnecessary.clone01

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

I'm sorry, If I dont have to install a game I'm not going to. Soul Calibur, Folklore, and Valkria Chronicles has optional installs that I didnt install. Only reason you said that is because the 360 has optional installs now.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]It was a necessity...to Kojima. For his final MGS work, Kojima felt he had to "Go Big Or Go Home". He wanted to cut as few corners as possible, so that's what he did.HuusAsking

jeez

your logic: its a necessity to have the Eyetoy to play Eye of Judgement ...therefore the Eyetoy is a necessity for gaming :roll:

anyway, uncompressed audio is a luxury, not necessity. deal with it

IOW, one man's frivolity is another man's necessity.

there will be exceptions, but thats the point we are making

just like you cant play 'flower' without motion-sensing, its necessary for that game, but not necessary for gaming

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

Luxury? its called Evolution, clearly Sony is trying. Why cant games evlove?

HuusAsking

its a storage medium... it doesnt have anything to do with games :|

um... one of the main reasons blu-ray is not needed is because of HDD

if games get that big, you can easily just install some info on the HDD... which is what the ps3 does anyway

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

CubanBlunt

I'm sorry, If I dont have to install a game I'm not going to. Soul Calibur, Folklore, and Valkria Chronicles has optional installs that I didnt install. Only reason you said that is because the 360 has optional installs now.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="clone01"] you do a one time install to a hard drive from those multiple discs. again, blu-ray is not needed for gaming. it is merely a storage medium.ogvampire

the devs didnt have to put uncompressed audio... compressed audio is more than sufficient. you can only tell the difference if you have the proper 5.1-7.1 surround sound system

filling up the blu-ray disc with uncompressed audio is a luxury... but far from a necessity

They could have compressed the audio, but he wanted to make the best sounding game, whats wrong with that?

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="clone01"] you do a one time install to a hard drive from those multiple discs. again, blu-ray is not needed for gaming. it is merely a storage medium.HuusAsking

I'm sorry, If I dont have to install a game I'm not going to. Soul Calibur, Folklore, and Valkria Chronicles has optional installs that I didnt install. Only reason you said that is because the 360 has optional installs now.

Then thats the 360nation problem, all PS3's has hard drives. You can plug a external hard drive formated with fat 32 to the PS3 for storage if you want to.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

I'm sorry, If I dont have to install a game I'm not going to. Soul Calibur, Folklore, and Valkria Chronicles has optional installs that I didnt install. Only reason you said that is because the 360 has optional installs now.

CubanBlunt

Then thats the 360nation problem, all PS3's has hard drives. You can plug a external hard drive formated with fat 32 to the PS3 for storage if you want to.

PS. Due to the FAT32 architecture's limits, all the big drives use NTFS.

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

we are talking about necessity here... not luxury

blu-ray is not needed for gaming

ogvampire

Luxury? its called Evolution, clearly Sony is trying. Why cant games evlove?

its a storage medium... it doesnt have anything to do with games :|

What do you think games are stored on when you buy them, a disk right, how dose it not have anything to do with games. Besides downloading, how else are you gonna play a game. Storage is everything.

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]And not everyone has hard drives. What then? Do you cut off a sizable chunk of your audience?HuusAsking

Then thats the 360nation problem, all PS3's has hard drives. You can plug a external hard drive formated with fat 32 to the PS3 for storage if you want to.

PS. Due to the FAT32 architecture's limits, all the big drives use NTFS.

You can back up data onto a external if you need room. The PS3 has a "System backup" feature. Anything I download from PSN I back up.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

Then thats the 360nation problem, all PS3's has hard drives. You can plug a external hard drive formated with fat 32 to the PS3 for storage if you want to.

CubanBlunt

PS. Due to the FAT32 architecture's limits, all the big drives use NTFS.

You can back up data onto a external if you need room. The PS3 has a "System backup" feature. Anything I download from PSN I back up.

All I know is that cows should stop using MGS4 as the "proof" blu-ray is needed for gaming.

MGS4 is a great game, but all the loading was ridiculous. The 4GB initial install, the 3mininstalls inbetween Acts, the loading between cutscences & gameplay, etc.

Great game though.

I'm not gonna front, I dont know ANY developers personaly....do you?

The word "IS NOT" is a strong word, Metal Gear 4 needed blu-ray, 1 game or 10 games, the point is 1 game did need blu-ray so you can't say blu-ray "is not" needed because Metal Gear 4 proved that wrong.

The word "IS NOT" is a strong word, Metal Gear 4 needed blu-ray, 1 game or 10 games, the point is 1 game did need blu-ray so you can't say blu-ray "is not" needed because Metal Gear 4 proved that wrong.

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] MGS4 did not, I will repeat, DID NOT, need Blu-Ray. Again, its only storage, and the storage media is unnecessary.dsmccracken

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

I don't even think 6 DVDs would be needed. 2 DVDs....maybe 3 DVDs

There was just too much installing & loading in MGS4 to claim that blu-ray was needed.

Are Wii and 360 discs scratch proof? Do they perform the highest quality video and audio? And can they hold massive data 25gb, 50gb, 100gb, 150gb, 250gb?

As a PS3 owner I know my discs wont ever scratch. I know the devs aren't limited by space. And I know it will always perform at the highest quality for games and videos. And the PS3 games are the same price as a 360 game, but the PS3 game is on a much better disc.

I paid $100 more for my PS3 than for my 360, but I get so much more for it and I don't pay to play online.

It is necessary for preventing scratches, for having quality audio/video, and for allowing devs to make a game as big as they want to.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]And if you don't have a big enough hard drive? Not everyone knows how to change out the PS3's hard drive or can afford such.CubanBlunt

the devs didnt have to put uncompressed audio... compressed audio is more than sufficient. you can only tell the difference if you have the proper 5.1-7.1 surround sound system

filling up the blu-ray disc with uncompressed audio is a luxury... but far from a necessity

They could have compressed the audio, but he wanted to make the best sounding game, whats wrong with that?

there's nothing wrong with it, but its not a necessity to gaming as a whole... which is our point

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

Luxury? its called Evolution, clearly Sony is trying. Why cant games evlove?

CubanBlunt

its a storage medium... it doesnt have anything to do with games :|

What do you think games are stored on when you buy them, a disk right, how dose it not have anything to do with games. Besides downloading, how else are you gonna play a game. Storage is everything.

DVD says hello

[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] MGS4 did not, I will repeat, DID NOT, need Blu-Ray. Again, its only storage, and the storage media is unnecessary.dsmccracken

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"] This, AGAIN, is where this thread goes wrong: the inability of certain SW users to grasp what the word "necessary" means. In answer to your question, Is one disc preferable to 6? Yes. But if it COULD be put on 6, then this in itself proves that Bluray was not in fact necessary, even for MGS4.dsmccracken

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But all you need is something the size of MGS4 but with the open-endedness of GTA4. Then you have to be able to access any part of the game at any time, and you may not have a hard drive (or one big enough--think 40GB PS3's) to hold everything. What options would you have left at this point?HuusAsking

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But all you need is something the size of MGS4 but with the open-endedness of GTA4. Then you have to be able to access any part of the game at any time, and you may not have a hard drive (or one big enough--think 40GB PS3's) to hold everything. What options would you have left at this point?HuusAsking

I can confidently claim there will not be a game with MGS4's graphics and GTAIV's open-worldness on PS3....ever.

There is just nowhere near enough RAM or bandwidth for that to be possible.

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="CubanBlunt"]

Can you put 33GB on 1 DVD......NO so YES, blu-ray was needed. If you can but a game on 1 disk, why in the world would you want it on 6 disk?

HuusAsking

Sorry, I can't hear the PC gamers. I'm too busy looking at Dark Knight blu-ray in 1080p.

:D